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09-25-2008, 12:24 PM   #16
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haha there's a post up on DPR w/ a rumour of MF digital :P
although the source seems really sketchy

09-25-2008, 12:26 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
okay

my friend has a canon film camera, he can also use all of his EF lenses on it, i dont understand?
So now you're recommending that I switch over all of my gear (that I am totally happy with) to Canon? No thanks, I'd rather just pay the little extra(? would it even be at this point?) to get the 1 camera I want to keep it all together.
09-25-2008, 12:30 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dnabors Quote
So now you're recommending that I switch over all of my gear (that I am totally happy with) to Canon? No thanks, I'd rather just pay the little extra(? would it even be at this point?) to get the 1 camera I want to keep it all together.
it would be wonderful if more people shared your view, desire, and financial position.

then pentax with their expert marketing research, would see that, and invest into developing this product. Thats how business works, you find demand, and you create supply.

If pentax has not done this so far, it is either because, there is no demand (no surprise here, considering the market share of pentax), their marketers are ass (not entirely out of the question), or simply a lack of any real funds necessary to go with the plan (with the recent mergers and what not, also entirely understandable)

or, a combination of all three (or more)

again, i'm not arguing for brand defending, i'm just expressing my frustration about people making pipe dream posts about the future of pentax and hows were going to blessed with FF and MF cameras, on a seemingly daily basis.
09-25-2008, 12:38 PM   #19
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also, about MF cameras

whens the last time you guys had one in your hands

3 weeks ago i was THIS close to getting a 645, and then i held one, this thing is a monster! this is not a camera for the average joe, this is a purpose built camera with specific usage in mind.

as far as i can hypothesise, those that NEED medium format, have already switched to one of the established systems.

and those that havent, obviously dont need it, or are happy with using film.

so selling one, if it is ever made, is going to be harder than ever.

the real question, is how strong is the market demand, and like i said, only the pentax marketers know this.

09-25-2008, 12:43 PM   #20
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ahh-HA! But tell me this Seamuis, if that is infact the case, then why has pentax put so much effort into creation of their DA line (a topic as we all know discussed to death), i'm not asking for any lengthly debate, i mean, i agree with you that Pentax doesn't have to create new lenses, but the fact is, that they have! They could have continued to pump out their FA lines, or simply modify the construction for SDM and what not, but they havent.

this adds more weight to the argument that pentax will take awhile to present a contender to a FF/MF world
I cant readily answer that since, I don't work for Pentax. all I can do is speculate, but I think it has been important for pentax to make a market for itself by designing new lenses. this is something that the big two haven't done a whole lot of in recent years. they update old designs as well. I also think its smart to take a different approach to APS-C, by designing lenses to match the format. this isn't the case for MF since you are essentially dealing with the same size image, and cameras with very similar designs just digital as opposed to film. sure we can go on all day about the numbers such as the resolution of the new sensor compared to MF film and how older lenses would stack up, etc, etc. but its important to remember thats there is a much bigger difference between 135 film and APS-C digital vs. 120, 220 film and MF digital. I mean look at the canon 5D, a large majority of its owners use manual lenses, a lot from other manufacturers. thats a pretty expensive camera for a lot of people even still, and I dont think most of those owners went 'where are the newly designed FF lenses for our camera!?' lets not get into a whole other argument, with regards to canon and its lenses, just to keep in mind that canon did not create new, or update its old lenses 'just to match its new FF cameras.' yet people dont seem to mind. I think that says a lot.
oh and I totally forgot about the FA line of 645 lenses, which would make a much better starting platform for updated lenses than A series.
09-25-2008, 12:52 PM   #21
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QuoteQuote:
as far as i can hypothesise, those that NEED medium format, have already switched to one of the established systems.

and those that havent, obviously dont need it, or are happy with using film.

so selling one, if it is ever made, is going to be harder than ever.
I don't think this is necessarily true. and even if they had switched who's to say they don't still have a couple of lenses? or really would like to go back to Pentax? we mustn't forget that MF is still dominated by film, and Pentax most definitely still has brand recognition in this respect.

QuoteQuote:
3 weeks ago i was THIS close to getting a 645, and then i held one, this thing is a monster! this is not a camera for the average joe, this is a purpose built camera with specific usage in mind.
all the more reason for Pentax to at some point get in the game, because 'professionals' tend to have money and this is where pentax could steal market with its MF film camera brand recognition. this statement also lends itself to the notion that the average Pentax user would not be in mind with this camera and Pentax knows this. MF has never been for the 'average joe' so why would it be important for pentax to sell a 645D to the 'average joe' to succeed?
09-25-2008, 12:56 PM   #22
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time to kidnap a pentax marketing exec , shake him down for info.
09-25-2008, 01:00 PM   #23
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I'm all for it man. or better yet lets shake down some pentax engineers. anyone up for a trip to Japan?

09-25-2008, 01:00 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i dont get you people...
...
Pentax does not make digital sensors
...
Pentax users are known for how cheap they are, we are used to paying bargain prices for premium quality, unfortunetly, this will not be the case with a MF or FF camera if you want Pentax to make it, so unless everyone here is willing to pay 3000 grand for a new unit

Pentax didn't make film either Kodak would be more than happy to sell them another sensor. And Samsung have already made noise about wanting to make bigger sensors.

As for price, $3000 would be amazingly cheap. The Leica S2 is going to be around 20,000 euros for the body alone! Mamiya, Pentax's old rival in this market, sells their digital 645 for $10,000. We're not talking about the amateur market (which Pentax has always served admirably, up to this day.) We're talking about a camera for working professionals. Cameras are not an investment, their are a consumable item with a finite life, and a working pro can pay off a camera in short order. Once that camera doesn't owe them any more, they can buy another one. How else did pros afford to buy a full-frame Canon or Nikon?

A Pentax 645D would be a viable camera priced anywhere between the $5000 for a Nikon D3 and the $10,000 for the Mamiya. No, that is not the price of a "happy snapper". But it is a reasonable expense for a pro that works their camera day after day.

I am amazed how many people think Pentax can NEVER build another lens bigger than APS-C! My goodness you have little faith. It's a lens, not a space program.
09-25-2008, 01:03 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote

I am amazed how many people think Pentax can NEVER build another lens bigger than APS-C! My goodness you have little faith. It's a lens, not a space program.
i'll assume you ment to say sensor, not lens.

as for the overall statement, they can, and will, just not now, and Ben owes me some money, september is almost over
09-25-2008, 01:04 PM   #26
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I pretty well agree with the above statement.

QuoteQuote:
It's a lens, not a space program.
09-25-2008, 01:07 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
also, about MF cameras

whens the last time you guys had one in your hands

3 weeks ago i was THIS close to getting a 645, and then i held one, this thing is a monster! this is not a camera for the average joe, this is a purpose built camera with specific usage in mind.

as far as i can hypothesise, those that NEED medium format, have already switched to one of the established systems.
I think that is one of the most intelligent comments I've read here about medium format Pentax.

Will a Pentax medium format boost a Pentax DSLRs credibility? It seems that many Pentax MF wishful thinkers would like it to. And I don't see why.

If a Pentax MF had a price of around $3000 or even $5000, I don't think MF shooters would jump at it when they can just rent a MF system for far less, especially one they're already familiar with and used for years.
09-25-2008, 01:13 PM   #28
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If a Pentax MF had a price of around $3000 or even $5000, I don't think MF shooters would jump at it when they can just rent a MF system for far less, especially one they're already familiar with and used for years.
umm.... you must have missed the part about working professionals, and how MF was and still is a market dominated by people who make a living with their cameras. these people are very unlikely to rent equipment on a daily basis and would need a system of their own. this has pretty much nothing to do with Pentax APS-C and 135 film camera users.

and im sorry but if pentax could offer a MF digital for 3000 bucks I would buy one.
09-25-2008, 01:25 PM   #29
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again id like to hypothesise that the majority of said professionals have caved in an upgraded to the current choice of digital MF cameras.

the increase in work speeds and turn around time should pay for the camera (assuming you ARE a professional making REAL money) in a year or three.

from a business point of view, this is an investment, depreciate a camera over 5 years with a 20% residual value (the chances of an audit, combined with the chances of an auditor knowing a thing or two about photography would mean you could pull this off), would make for a hefty expense column, and help to decrease your business taxes paid

i belive if people are still out there shooting MF film professionally, there are very few of them, and they are doing so for very specific reasons (whatever those are)
09-25-2008, 01:37 PM   #30
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According to the latest news & rumors, Pentax will release a 645 medium-format digital SLR camera in spring 2009. Unfortunately, a FF KXD seems not to be in the pipeline .
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