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09-28-2008, 05:38 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
pentax has some of the best MF glass on the planet with its 6x7 and 645 lenses. and I imagine a lot of people who would purchase such a camera would still have most of their glass. all they would have to do is just start cranking out updated versions of this glass. the first being say, the Pentax 645 smc-A 75mm f/2.8 LS. they could even adapt SDM for these lenses. ?

Pentax may make some of the best MF lenses out there but they are not that good compared to K-mount lenses (with some exceptions). This is because they don't have to. MF needs less magnification and if they indeed need magnifications it is for big prints viewed from a distance. In this pixel peeping age I fear they really need redesign! Eg. the FA645 45/2.8 is nowere near the optical quality of the 43 Limited. The FA645 75/2.8 is nowehere near any of Pentax short telephotos for the K-mount. But they are all great on MF film (except the 45/2.8).

09-28-2008, 05:42 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
3 weeks ago i was THIS close to getting a 645, and then i held one, this thing is a monster! this is not a camera for the average joe, this is a purpose built camera with specific usage in mind.
.

It is the same size as a K20D with battery grip.....
09-28-2008, 06:02 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
As much as we all wish in our heart of hearts that Pentax can come out with a digital 645/67 and conquer the photographic market, the reality is even during the film era, the Pentax medium format cameras never achieved a strong dominance on the market. Pentax was late in the 645 format and sales never supplanted Mamiya and Bronica in a big way. The Pentax MF user base wasn't huge and here's the thing, most medium format working pros I know have already switched to digital a long ago for workflow considerations, buying high end Canons and Nikons or pricy digital MF even. .


1. Pentax had 50% of the world largest MF market; Japan, and strong presense globally. They where also No.1 brand for outdoor MF photography.
2. The Pentax 645's are the world most sold MF SLR camera.
3. The Pentax MF base much be pretty big then...
4. The idea that someone using something else can never agin use something different is ludicrous. How did this people switch to something else when switching to something else is improsible because they already using something? I've never understood this argument and never will.
Your post makes no sense.
09-28-2008, 06:57 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Pentax may make some of the best MF lenses out there but they are not that good compared to K-mount lenses (with some exceptions). This is because they don't have to. MF needs less magnification and if they indeed need magnifications it is for big prints viewed from a distance. In this pixel peeping age I fear they really need redesign! Eg. the FA645 45/2.8 is nowere near the optical quality of the 43 Limited. The FA645 75/2.8 is nowehere near any of Pentax short telephotos for the K-mount. But they are all great on MF film (except the 45/2.8).
You have all the MTF50 data to prove it as well no doubt.

MF had the same size film grain as 35mm. The lenses for the most part are pretty close in resolution terms to most decent 35mm lenses though they dont usually match the top ones its true.

However even if we are talking about a 36MP sensor for the 645D then the pixel pitch is much larger than the K20D so this is relatively unimportant. You can still get double the print size (area).

09-28-2008, 07:32 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
1. Pentax had 50% of the world largest MF market; Japan, and strong presense globally. They where also No.1 brand for outdoor MF photography.
2. The Pentax 645's are the world most sold MF SLR camera.
3. The Pentax MF base much be pretty big then...
4. The idea that someone using something else can never agin use something different is ludicrous. How did this people switch to something else when switching to something else is improsible because they already using something? I've never understood this argument and never will.
Your post makes no sense.
Sorry but I'm not sure Pentax ever had the market share percentages you've mentioned. I've used medium format cameras for quite a long while and I know the local reps of a few of the MF camera makers where I am and the Pentax 645 certainly didn't sell nearly as much as Mamiya, Bronica or Hasselblad. Most people I know used the 3 brands and some carried Rolleis.

Instead of saying that my post makes no sense, perhaps you should stop and think beforehand. Nobody is saying that people cannot switch back to digital medium format. However you need to understand the context of my assertion.

Professional portrait photographers who I know personally and who used to shoot MF and 35mm film have for the most part switched to Canon and Nikon DSLRs almost entirely, with the decline of film and the onset of the digital workflow.

They switched because even with some loss of image quality, the high end DSLRs were significantly cheaper to buy compared to the few and very expensive options to continue using MF. Using a MF camera with a digital back or dedicated digital MF camera were expensive options then as they are now. Aside from the cost issue, a digital workflow offers a quicker turnaround jobs wise, and more time means more opportunities for more jobs.

Now any investment in high end DSLRs needs to be recouped and obviously photo gear do wear out and get replaced. Most pro jobs can and are shot with the current crop of DSLRs but when it comes down to digital MF, most will take a long hard look before making a commitment to buy simply because digital medium format remains an expensive proposition. Simply put, lots of pro shooters I have dealt with made the switch and are happy to continue using their DSLRs for the bulk of their assignments. Now that isn't to say they won't use MF (digital or otherwise) but the proportion using it now is certainly lower than it was in the days of film.

Time doesn't stand still. Whatever loyal or sizable user base the Pentax 645 had isn't there anymore because most pro shooters have certainly moved on to other gear. Perhaps the only die hard holdouts are the enthusiasts who still shoot MF film and cling on to their old gear.

Last edited by creampuff; 09-28-2008 at 07:39 PM. Reason: typo
09-30-2008, 04:08 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
1. Pentax had 50% of the world largest MF market; Japan, and strong presense globally. They where also No.1 brand for outdoor MF photography.
2. The Pentax 645's are the world most sold MF SLR camera.
3. The Pentax MF base much be pretty big then...
4. The idea that someone using something else can never agin use something different is ludicrous. How did this people switch to something else when switching to something else is improsible because they already using something? I've never understood this argument and never will.
Your post makes no sense.
Was browsing some old fashion magazines and saw these.

From September 2002


From April 2008


I think if Pentax comes up with a killer medium format digital camera with familiar handling, a lot of the old 645 and 67 users from fashion and landscape would CONSIDER coming back.
09-30-2008, 09:20 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake.astig Quote
I think if Pentax comes up with a killer medium format digital camera with familiar handling, a lot of the old 645 and 67 users from fashion and landscape would CONSIDER coming back.
I posted over at DPR that I'm hoping Pentax's 645D, if it does come to fruition, take a more Leica S2-like form than the body + back configuration of Hasselblad and Mamiya.

MF is really not for me (unless it's priced right), but if I were to buy, I'd prefer the form factor of those cameras shown in your uploaded photos.
09-30-2008, 04:56 PM   #83
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If and when Pentax does release a digital MF, the key issue will be the sensor size and the size of the mirror box assembly.

A form factor that's more like an SLR is probably more familiar to most of us, but the traditional box shape is no more difficult to use. But it should definitely be smaller and lighter than the 6x7 format.

If it is going to be as big as my old workhorse, it's time to work those arm muscles...



09-30-2008, 05:27 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
If and when Pentax does release a digital MF, the key issue will be the sensor size and the size of the mirror box assembly.

A form factor that's more like an SLR is probably more familiar to most of us, but the traditional box shape is no more difficult to use. But it should definitely be smaller and lighter than the 6x7 format.

If it is going to be as big as my old workhorse, it's time to work those arm muscles...

[]
It's look is no mystery. It is the same size as the film 645's. Here it is:
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09-30-2008, 08:22 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
It's look is no mystery. It is the same size as the film 645's. Here it is:
Actually, although the camera will be the same size as the film camera, I think the proposed sensors are actually smaller than the film was.

When they come out with the "cropped MF," it'll be the MF guys' turn to complain.
10-01-2008, 06:41 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
Actually, although the camera will be the same size as the film camera, I think the proposed sensors are actually smaller than the film was.

When they come out with the "cropped MF," it'll be the MF guys' turn to complain.
Originally it was 1,2X crop. However, latest info says it will us the largest sensor available around 40-50mp. Its design makes it easy to upgrade the sensor while maintaining the body. It is also easy to clean the sensor. It also appears weather sealed.
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10-01-2008, 07:23 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Originally it was 1,2X crop. However, latest info says it will us the largest sensor available around 40-50mp. Its design makes it easy to upgrade the sensor while maintaining the body. It is also easy to clean the sensor. It also appears weather sealed.
I also remember that there was a 75mm lens on the road map. Those of us that have used larger formats in the past appreciate the image quality difference that larger formats provide.

If Pentax does not step in, the Mamiya 645ZD could be the camera of choice due to MP and price. If you have ever compared the Pentax 645 and Mamiya 645 finders, you would opt for the Pentax, as Pål has.

Cheers,
Bob
10-01-2008, 07:36 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobrapp Quote
I also remember that there was a 75mm lens on the road map. Bob
It was in fact a 55/2,8 lens....
10-01-2008, 07:43 AM   #89
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Prices on used Pentax 645 glass is very low right now. If the 645D will be released they will skyrocket!

I'd like to buy the wonderful 45-85/4.5 lens and the incredible FA645 35/3,5 lens (reputedly the best wide angle ever made for medium format). The latter is almost impossible to find used and expensive new (if you can find it!). There is an older A-series manual focus 35mm lens, easy to find used, but it a different optical construction.
I already have the 33-55/4.5 and the 75/2.8, but would like to use the combo 45-85 and 35mm instead when weight is not that important, due to superior image quality.
10-01-2008, 08:24 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
It was in fact a 55/2,8 lens....
Your are right! It would be a perfect normal lens for the 1.2 crop 645D. I know someone that has the 35mm lens and he shoots exclusively with it. A perfect reason to buy a 645!

Bob
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