Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-25-2008, 09:42 AM   #1
Site Supporter
filmamigo's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 685
Leica opens a door for Pentax

The announcement of Leica's new S2 camera LEICA Camera AG - Aktuell has been received enthusiastically by many pundits.

Everyone seems amazed that you can make a camera with a sensor bigger than 35mm "full frame." They also seem accepting of Leica's platinum-plated price tag.

The S2 is being called a "medium format" camera. If it were film, you'd call it a "345" -- the sensor is 3cm x 4.5cm.

This is a perfect opening for Pentax to move the 645D project ahead. The Pentax 645 has always been the perfect hybird of medium format with 35mm SLR handling. Some say that the Pentax 645D will fail if it's priced at or above the Canikon FF cameras. But Leica have set new rules for digital medium format -- and the price is astronomical.

The original Pentax 645 redefined the price/performance ratio for medium format shooters, and took a huge chunk of the fashion/wedding/portrait business. The Pentax 645D can do the same -- medium format digital "for the rest of us" -- working photographers who want results, great lenses, a reliable tool -- and don't care about the Leica name.

Sometimes it pays to not be the pioneer. I believe Pentax has made some tough, but good, decisions during the digital transition. They cancelled the MZ-D instead of selling a full-frame DSLR with sensor problems (which killed Contax). They have held back the 645D because the price and market weren't right yet. I hope Pentax/Hoya are watching the S2 very closely, and are rubbing their hands together in anticipation. Now is the time for the Pentax 645D!

09-25-2008, 10:19 AM   #2
Pentaxian
Cambo's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 864
Here, here...

QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote
The announcement of Leica's new S2 camera LEICA Camera AG - Aktuell has been received enthusiastically by many pundits.

Everyone seems amazed that you can make a camera with a sensor bigger than 35mm "full frame." They also seem accepting of Leica's platinum-plated price tag.

The S2 is being called a "medium format" camera. If it were film, you'd call it a "345" -- the sensor is 3cm x 4.5cm.

This is a perfect opening for Pentax to move the 645D project ahead. The Pentax 645 has always been the perfect hybird of medium format with 35mm SLR handling. Some say that the Pentax 645D will fail if it's priced at or above the Canikon FF cameras. But Leica have set new rules for digital medium format -- and the price is astronomical.

The original Pentax 645 redefined the price/performance ratio for medium format shooters, and took a huge chunk of the fashion/wedding/portrait business. The Pentax 645D can do the same -- medium format digital "for the rest of us" -- working photographers who want results, great lenses, a reliable tool -- and don't care about the Leica name.

Sometimes it pays to not be the pioneer. I believe Pentax has made some tough, but good, decisions during the digital transition. They cancelled the MZ-D instead of selling a full-frame DSLR with sensor problems (which killed Contax). They have held back the 645D because the price and market weren't right yet. I hope Pentax/Hoya are watching the S2 very closely, and are rubbing their hands together in anticipation. Now is the time for the Pentax 645D!
and there, there.

Your post needs a marching band kicking in right at the end, some balloons, cheerleaders, and a big crowd of people yelling 'YAY'!!!

Instead, we'll ge a bunch of whiny old pixel-peeping curmudgeons going 'Nahhhhh!!'



Cheers,
Cameron
09-25-2008, 11:05 AM   #3
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,611
i dont get you people...

to make a DSLR camera, you need to have either means of production, or outsourcing capabilities of the most important part of a camera

that being the digital sensor!

Pentax does not make digital sensors

Pentax can either outsource Sony sensors, like they did in the past.

or

Pentax can turn to samsung and request that they make a MF sensor.

Using sensors that are used in Nikon cameras will be futile, cuz then you just get a Nikon without the burst shooting and fast(er) AF

Asking Samsung to create an entire production line for digital sensor development is ludicrous. The ROI is simply not there. They are not building paper clips here, creating a FF or even a MF sensor that is fault free is NOT AN EASY TASK

there is a reason why current digital medium format cameras cost so much.

there is a reason why a Canon 1D is so much cheaper than a 1D's.


Pentax users are known for how cheap they are, we are used to paying bargain prices for premium quality, unfortunetly, this will not be the case with a MF or FF camera if you want Pentax to make it, so unless everyone here is willing to pay 3000 grand for a new unit, at the very least, i would try to end all of these silly pipe dreams.
09-25-2008, 11:21 AM   #4
Veteran Member
philmorley's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: in a house in Armidale, Australia
Posts: 472
how much is the leica?? as US$3000 would be a bargain and mamiya (from memory) are proud of being under $10000 and the cheapest MF

09-25-2008, 11:22 AM   #5
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,611
QuoteOriginally posted by philmorley Quote
how much is the leica?? as US$3000 would be a bargain and mamiya (from memory) are proud of being under $10000 and the cheapest MF
that was just an estimate of a FF camera

i'm quite certain if pentax wanted to develop a MF camera it could not compete in price with the other units unless they explicitly wanted to lose money.
09-25-2008, 11:28 AM   #6
Veteran Member
deejjjaaaa's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: steel city / rust belt
Posts: 2,046
QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
that being the digital sensor!

Pentax does not make digital sensors

Pentax can either outsource Sony sensors, like they did in the past.

or

Pentax can turn to samsung and request that they make a MF sensor.
there are players besides sony/samsung... kodak - unless kodak is upset that pentax ditched their sensor once before
09-25-2008, 11:32 AM   #7
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
there are players besides sony/samsung... kodak - unless kodak is upset that pentax ditched their sensor once before
I highly doubt that would matter. if pentax was seriously seeking to market a digital MF camera, Kodak would be in line like the rest of the current line up of sensor manufacturers to get there sensor in this camera. they want to make money, period.
09-25-2008, 11:42 AM   #8
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,611
QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
there are players besides sony/samsung... kodak - unless kodak is upset that pentax ditched their sensor once before
okay, lets say pentax buys Kodak chips.

now they have to compete with all the other, already established, MF cameras that use Kodak sensors.

what about lenses? dont tell me Pentax is going to force all the buyers of their new MF system to use decade old glass that they will have to find second hand?

Its been like.. a whole year that the 60-250 existed, and its still not out, and people expect pentax to magicaly make 5-6 pieces of EXCELLENT glass for a new MF unit?

yeah, okay. :ugh:

09-25-2008, 11:47 AM   #9
Junior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jackson, MS
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 25
QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i dont get you people...

to make a DSLR camera, you need to have either means of production, or outsourcing capabilities of the most important part of a camera

that being the digital sensor!

Pentax does not make digital sensors

Pentax can either outsource Sony sensors, like they did in the past.

or

Pentax can turn to samsung and request that they make a MF sensor.

Using sensors that are used in Nikon cameras will be futile, cuz then you just get a Nikon without the burst shooting and fast(er) AF

Asking Samsung to create an entire production line for digital sensor development is ludicrous. The ROI is simply not there. They are not building paper clips here, creating a FF or even a MF sensor that is fault free is NOT AN EASY TASK

there is a reason why current digital medium format cameras cost so much.

there is a reason why a Canon 1D is so much cheaper than a 1D's.


Pentax users are known for how cheap they are, we are used to paying bargain prices for premium quality, unfortunetly, this will not be the case with a MF or FF camera if you want Pentax to make it, so unless everyone here is willing to pay 3000 grand for a new unit, at the very least, i would try to end all of these silly pipe dreams.
I would TOTALLY spend $3000 on a FF Pentax camera which would still use all of my lenses. No doubt about it!
-ESP. if it had good quality in the higher ISOs.
09-25-2008, 11:53 AM   #10
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,611
QuoteOriginally posted by Dnabors Quote
I would TOTALLY spend $3000 on a FF Pentax camera which would still use all of my lenses. No doubt about it!
-ESP. if it had good quality in the higher ISOs.
so why dont you go buy a Canon 5D? its even cheaper than that.

also, having seen the rise and fall of the K20D hype, and the aftermath, with people STILL complaining that 1000 dollar for this amazing piece of technology is "too much", i will take your statement with a grain of salt, and still assume that MANY people will bitch and moan about such a "high" price tag, and in the end, very few people will actualy own this peice of machinery.

Also note, that this website has a mere 10 thousand "registered" users, i'm willing to bet only 50% of those are legit, even if we make the drastic assumption that the rest of the 5000 demographic will buy a FF pentax, thats hardly a ROI that Hoya would like to have...
09-25-2008, 12:06 PM   #11
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteQuote:
and people expect pentax to magicaly make 5-6 pieces of EXCELLENT glass for a new MF unit?
first, I don't think, most MF users care a whole lot about AF to begin with, so I dont see this as a killing point.

second, you failed to understand that, pentax's new lenses are just that: new lenses. new optical designs, new AF motor, completely new technology. that is a world of difference from the MF game. pentax has some of the best MF glass on the planet with its 6x7 and 645 lenses. and I imagine a lot of people who would purchase such a camera would still have most of their glass. all they would have to do is just start cranking out updated versions of this glass. the first being say, the Pentax 645 smc-A 75mm f/2.8 LS. they could even adapt SDM for these lenses. Im not saying that they currently have all the money and capabilitiy to do this but I think its important to understand the big difference in designing and manufacturing completely new lenses vs. updating old lenses. I also think they should design new lenses as well, but that come come a little later.

QuoteQuote:
Also note, that this website has a mere 10 thousand "registered" users, i'm willing to bet only 50% of those are legit, even if we make the drastic assumption that the rest of the 5000 demographic will buy a FF pentax, thats hardly a ROI that Hoya would like to have...

umm.. you do realize that those here on the forums are not the only pentax users in the world right? and that you don't have to be a previous pentax user or a current one to have a want or need for such a camera?
09-25-2008, 12:08 PM   #12
Junior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jackson, MS
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 25
[QUOTE=Gooshin;352246]so why dont you go buy a Canon 5D? its even cheaper than that.

Because I love my Pentax lenses that's why.

And I love Pentax in general, have been a steady Pentax user and defender always, and I trust in the quality I can expect from Pentax.
09-25-2008, 12:11 PM   #13
Junior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jackson, MS
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 25
Also, I still use my Pentax film cameras, and the fact that I can use those lenses with my digital is important to me.
09-25-2008, 12:18 PM   #14
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,611
QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
first, I don't think, most MF users care a whole lot about AF to begin with, so I dont see this as a killing point.

second, you failed to understand that, pentax's new lenses are just that: new lenses. new optical designs, new AF motor, completely new technology. that is a world of difference from the MF game. pentax has some of the best MF glass on the planet with its 6x7 and 645 lenses. and I imagine a lot of people who would purchase such a camera would still have most of their glass. all they would have to do is just start cranking out updated versions of this glass. the first being say, the Pentax 645 smc-A 75mm f/2.8 LS. they could even adapt SDM for these lenses. Im not saying that they currently have all the money and capabilitiy to do this but I think its important to understand the big difference in designing and manufacturing completely new lenses vs. updating old lenses. I also think they should design new lenses as well, but that come come a little later.
ahh-HA! But tell me this Seamuis, if that is infact the case, then why has pentax put so much effort into creation of their DA line (a topic as we all know discussed to death), i'm not asking for any lengthly debate, i mean, i agree with you that Pentax doesn't have to create new lenses, but the fact is, that they have! They could have continued to pump out their FA lines, or simply modify the construction for SDM and what not, but they havent.

this adds more weight to the argument that pentax will take awhile to present a contender to a FF/MF world



QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
umm.. you do realize that those here on the forums are not the only pentax users in the world right? and that you don't have to be a previous pentax user or a current one to have a want or need for such a camera?
that particular point isnt to be taken with any real seriousness, i'm just throwing out a number, at this point only the pentax marketers really know what their total potential demographic is.


QuoteOriginally posted by Dnabors Quote

Because I love my Pentax lenses that's why.

And I love Pentax in general, have been a steady Pentax user and defender always, and I trust in the quality I can expect from Pentax.
i dunno... i'm not disagreeing but take a look at the forum, people are buying tamron, sigma, tokina left right and center along with pentax units

the M42 market is up in arms too, lots of people consider Ziess to be better than Pentax

then you have the influx of people (like me), for whatever silly reason buying up takumars, 40 year old lenses, why? i dont know.
09-25-2008, 12:20 PM   #15
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,611
QuoteOriginally posted by Dnabors Quote
Also, I still use my Pentax film cameras, and the fact that I can use those lenses with my digital is important to me.
okay

my friend has a canon film camera, he can also use all of his EF lenses on it, i dont understand?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
35mm, 645d, camera, format, leica, medium, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, price, s2, sensor
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First american pentax shop opens in new york city Adam Homepage & Official Pentax News 41 01-10-2011 03:41 PM
UK Store Opens HouseOfHorla Pentax News and Rumors 10 12-24-2009 02:50 PM
First U.S. marijuana cafe opens Fl_Gulfer General Talk 17 11-20-2009 06:57 PM
PS2 opens PEF from K10D not from K20D? GerrieDup Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 3 12-05-2008 09:22 PM
The door prize: Pentax Optio S12 dbh Pentax Compact Cameras 1 11-25-2008 03:31 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:07 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top