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08-14-2019, 04:15 PM - 1 Like   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by EstimatedEyes Quote
I got tired of waiting and just picked up a Tammy 70-200 f/2.8 in the marketplace. This of course means that the 70-200 f/4 will be released in the next month or so. You're welcome.
You shouldn’t have said anything... it never works if you try to trick it

But your sacrifice is appreciated.

I found a good deal on a 400mm f5.6 to hold me over a while...

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08-14-2019, 10:35 PM - 1 Like   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by EstimatedEyes Quote
I got tired of waiting and just picked up a Tammy 70-200 f/2.8 in the marketplace. This of course means that the 70-200 f/4 will be released in the next month or so. You're welcome.
I have Tammy 70-200mm f2. 8, I tried pentax d fa 70-200mm which was kinda heavy and expensive, Tammy is doing the job sometimes focusing would be difficult.. But picture quality is good and sharp enough.
I have been waiting for the new 70-200 f4, still waiting and waiting.. Getting tired of waiting...
08-15-2019, 12:47 AM - 1 Like   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kaisas Quote
I have been waiting for the new 70-200 f4, still waiting and waiting.. Getting tired of waiting...
I've been looking at replacing my 70-200 f2.8 by a 70-200 f4 and a 85 prime. Since they aren't available, I'm saving money, and use my *70-200 f2.8, it's not bad either.
08-15-2019, 01:01 AM - 4 Likes   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kaisas Quote
I have been waiting for the new 70-200 f4, still waiting and waiting.. Getting tired of waiting...
The DA* 60-250 f4 still exists, still for sale new. Close enough to 70-200 f4. No need to wait.

08-15-2019, 08:41 PM - 1 Like   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
The DA* 60-250 f4 still exists, still for sale new. Close enough to 70-200 f4. No need to wait.
Agreed in most respects. Out of frustration with broken promises ("Spring 2019" release) and the interminable waiting for the 70-200 f4, I bought (and modified for full frame) a DA* 60-250mm f4. And it's a *very* fine piece of glass and I'm *very* happy with the images I'm getting - but - and for me it is a very big "but" - it is definitely *heavy*. I've noticed that I am increasingly leaving it behind when I head up a mountain which, as primarily a landscape photographer, I do rather a lot. If I were studio-based it would be a very different story. My reasons for wanting an f4 70-200mm (rather than the otherwise wonderful f2.8) is precisely the reason I'm finding I'm leaving the 60-250mm behind.

And I have to say that the frustration is now sufficiently great that, together with a bunch of other reasons (not least of which, to be frank, is recently coming into some money) I'm now on the verge of jumping ship for the recently announced Sony a7r4. Who wouldn't want - not necessarily need, of course - a 61 MP full-frame sensor? Or 240MP equivalent pixelshift? The Sony set-up ends up almost a kilo lighter for about the same focal range (the 15-30mm is another lovely lens that is a *very* heavy beast, one that I usually don't take, preferring instead an ultra wide prime and then cropping a little as needed). Sony now offers more options in terms of *modern* lenses than Pentax offers and there is zero sign that that will not just get worse over time. Yes, it cannot be denied that Sony lenses exact a hefty price - even heftier than Pentax's best offerings, which is pretty hefty - but their high-end lenses are at least as good now in terms of IQ as what Pentax has available, if not better. (That's my opinion, anyhow, and somewhat subjective, of course.) What will I miss from my Prentax K-1 if I do indeed jump ship? Ummm - a) astrotracer (though I've rarely used it, to be honest), b) a pretty good menu system, c) ummm.... somewhere for my pinky to rest?

And it's a great shame, because Pentax is a noble brand that has produced top-notch and often innovative gear. Its outright refusal to embrace mirrorless in a shrinking global market can only lead to one end. Sigh - sorry - I'm drifting off topic.

Peace.
08-15-2019, 10:16 PM - 1 Like   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
I've noticed that I am increasingly leaving it behind when I head up a mountain which, as primarily a landscape photographer, I do rather a lot. If I were studio-based it would be a very different story. My reasons for wanting an f4 70-200mm (rather than the otherwise wonderful f2.8) is precisely the reason I'm finding I'm leaving the 60-250mm behind
For this , Ricoh decided that the apsc product line is the better choice for light weight / traveling, there is the 55-300 PLM and Pentax KP for that. Saving weight with Sony full frame is an illusion. Fuji apsc with apsc glass would be more logical if weight/size was really the concern. You'll never get a small light weight tele lens for full frame, unless the max aperture end-up being f5.6 - f8.

QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
And I have to say that the frustration is now sufficiently great that, together with a bunch of other reasons (not least of which, to be frank, is recently coming into some money) I'm now on the verge of jumping ship for the recently announced Sony a7r4.
Cameras are just tools to take photos. With the market shrinking and no camera maker exit that market to make it a healthy place, there will be losses and dead mounts along the way. Buying new camera gear and switching brands is like playing catch 22, chasing the elusive perfect system that never become one as the newer better model is released.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-15-2019 at 10:28 PM.
08-15-2019, 11:10 PM - 1 Like   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
. Its outright refusal to embrace mirrorless in a shrinking global market can only lead to one end. Sigh - sorry - I'm drifting off topic.
Did you know mirrorless is losing customers too, Socrateeze? Sony down in sales, Canon and Nikon who went mirrorless saw their sales drop instead of rise, and Samsung exited the mirrorless camera market altogether because people didn't buy them?

You should spend your money how you like, but I reckon it's a mistake to think the rest of the world somehow reflects your choice. I think the number of people who will actually buy the $3500 RIV will be disappointingly small to Sony, as I'm guessing was even more the case with the A9.

08-15-2019, 11:35 PM   #293
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If one want lighter system. New mirrorless and lenses optimised for it are no longer any lighter than FF DSLR. That is just a fact. If one desiere fir lighter, they ahould go for aps-c/h or m4/3. Then again one might feel like lacking something. What will it be then?
08-16-2019, 01:16 AM - 1 Like   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
You'll never get a small light weight tele lens for full frame, unless the max aperture end-up being f5.6 - f8..
Unless it's manual focus! :P
My Tokina 80-200 F4 is around 500 g, give or take. Not too large, either.

Jokes aside, it does look like if someone wants light gear, the best option is APS-C; the sensors and the lenses are up there for the most part, it feels like... the 50-135 F2.8 is a bit less than the weight of a typical 70-200 F4 and from the pictures I've seen, the results are not much different either.
08-16-2019, 02:38 AM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
My Tokina 80-200 F4 is around 500 g, give or take. Not too large, either.
That's the kind of lens that remove the pleasure of deserving a photographs, taking large format view cameras to the top was much more rewarding.
08-16-2019, 03:42 AM - 2 Likes   #296
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Promise? What promise ? The roadmap is no promise. Never has been, never will be.
08-16-2019, 03:54 AM   #297
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I do wish Pentax was making a more concerted effort to get new gear out there. On one hand Sony is releasing cameras for no other reason than that their sensor department has come up with a new sensor and the other, Pentax has released one of the promised DFA * primes since the K-1 came out (and the HD FA 35).

Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but it does seem as though they could release 2 to 3 new lenses a year and a camera year without destroying the company. And no, I don't really consider the HD 10-17 and HD 35 to be "new" lenses, even though technically they are.
08-16-2019, 04:26 AM   #298
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When they talked about the 70-200/4 at CP+, they mentioned on stage that its main characteristic is light weight. I have no idea when it will be released, but when it does, I think it will be fairly light.

And I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect full frame lenses to be light. They used to be, and even though the current trend is toward massive lenses designed for test charts, I think there is a space for lighter, more characteristic lenses as well.

One lens I would like is the Tamron 35-150/2.8-4. That would be really nice on APS-C as a replacement for the 50-135/2.8, but also useful on FF. People complain when Ricoh licenses Tamron lenses, but that one would be great.
08-16-2019, 04:34 PM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Did you know mirrorless is losing customers too, Socrateeze? Sony down in sales, Canon and Nikon who went mirrorless saw their sales drop instead of rise, and Samsung exited the mirrorless camera market altogether because people didn't buy them?

You should spend your money how you like, but I reckon it's a mistake to think the rest of the world somehow reflects your choice. I think the number of people who will actually buy the $3500 RIV will be disappointingly small to Sony, as I'm guessing was even more the case with the A9.
I appreciate the response. My point about Pentax's long-term future relates to *market share* rather than absolute sales. Yes. I know mirrorless FF sales are dropping too. But the DSLR drop in sales is proportionately larger, is it not? That is, within the FF market there is a shift towards mirrorless and away from DSLR.

To compete in a significantly shrinking FF market a camera manufacturer needs to move with the wants of its potential customer base - ideally, they should move ahead of it (as I think Sony did, at least judging by their hugely increased market share), but that is obviously not easy to do. The alternative survival strategy is to master a niche market, and perhaps that is what FF DSLR is becoming. So unless you can tell me that Pentax's market share is increasing, I think my point stands. Honestly, I'd love to be shown that I was wrong on this.

I thought I had made it clear enough that I am perfectly aware that my needs do not reflect the needs of everyone else or even most people. If I were studio based, for instance, it would be a whole different story.

---------- Post added 08-16-19 at 04:45 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Unless it's manual focus! :P
My Tokina 80-200 F4 is around 500 g, give or take. Not too large, either.

Jokes aside, it does look like if someone wants light gear, the best option is APS-C; the sensors and the lenses are up there for the most part, it feels like... the 50-135 F2.8 is a bit less than the weight of a typical 70-200 F4 and from the pictures I've seen, the results are not much different either.
Yes, APS-C is lighter, all else being equal. But all else is not equal. Just as medium format is (all else being equal) heavier than FF and smartphones are a whole lot lighter than APS-C. There is always going to be some degree of compromise between quality of image and weight carried. Where one finds the sweet spot depends on each individual and that is dependent on such things as their age and physical fitness in relation to their photographic interests and goals – and there is no universal right or wrong answer. It's all a matter of what burdens we are prepared to (literally) shoulder for the gain we are hoping to achieve.

In my case I have a particular standard of image that I am aiming for and I'm seeking the lightest weight where I can still manage to achieve those goals. And for me, that is at FF. For many years I used just a Ricoh GR when out in the backcountry, which imo packs more image quality into a small and light camera than any other I've used. For the quality of image that I now seek in my landscape photography I need the combination of resolution and dynamic range that FF gives me. I'd take medium format if I had the physical strength and resolve, but for me, that imposes too high of a weight burden (not to mention expense).

---------- Post added 08-16-19 at 04:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Promise? What promise ? The roadmap is no promise. Never has been, never will be.
The lens road map said it would be a "Spring 2019" release. And it wasn't. When a manufacturer says something about what they will do and when they will do it – which is precisely what a lens roadmap does – it sets up a reasonable expectation with their customers about when things will happen. If a lens roadmap is not telling us what they will do and when they will do it, then I have no idea what a lens roadmap is for. It doesn't matter whether it is spoken or a lens map or whatever, so long as it is for public consumption to convey information about future actions. In my idiom, saying to your customers that you will do something at a certain time amounts to a promise that you will do something at a certain time. And when they don't, that counts as a broken promise. But lest this get bogged down in semantics, try to keep in mind that my *point* is that it is very frustrating and annoying, whether we call it a broken promise or not.
08-16-2019, 04:52 PM   #300
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The biggest thing is that Ricoh is very tight lipped about anything. We get hints from different people, but they are never in an official capacity. As a strategy it doesn't feel the best as the Pentaxians get restless and it makes them appear to have a poor plan as well as funding to release new products.
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