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09-12-2019, 06:55 PM - 4 Likes   #391
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I'll never understand the tribalism of photo community..
The less news I read the happier I become..................
Work in the garden, take pictures, go kayaking. Ignore the haters.

09-12-2019, 07:17 PM - 1 Like   #392
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
The less news I read the happier I become..................
Work in the garden, take pictures, go kayaking. Ignore the haters.
The truth)

09-14-2019, 05:54 AM   #393
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Why? Sigma abandoned K-mount years ago. Just because they finally formally announced it makes no difference. They were just waiting to use up the old inventory.

Anyway, I don't think it is a sad day for Pentax at all. Perhaps a sad day for photography because as the market continues to shrink hard choices need to be made. Introduction of new gear will slow to a crawl. Nikon and Canon pushing mirrorless is IMHO a last gasp attempt at keeping sales high enough to survive.
I think it is a sad day for Pentaxians because it means that there will be fewer lens options going into the future than otherwise. If you think that is not something to be sad about, then I donít know what to say.

It is also a signal that Pentaxís unwillingness to embrace mirrorless has real world consequences that makes Pentaxians more dependent on Pentax for their lenses going forward. Maybe you will never want new third party glass. Maybe you already have everything you need. But Iíd like to see the options expand rather than decrease going forward, and Im sure I canít be alone in that.

Whether Nikon and Canon are acting desperately or the market is shrinking is irrelevant to my point. The rise of Sony in the FF market is rooted in their FF mirrorless cameras. Nikon and Canon and Panasonic and Fujifilm and Olympus and Leica and Sigma and... well, you get the picture... have recognized the market is shifting toward mirrorless and are playing catch-up whilst trying to defend their market share in the context of the obvious trend that Sony has led. I donít know whether Pentaxís decision will be good for them in the long run or bad. They probably decided they are too far behind in the relevant technology or donít have the resources to compete in the increasingly mainstream mirrorless market as perhaps they once could. Maybe they will carve out a position producing a good lens and a nice camera once in a while that will satisfy an increasingly isolated and dependent clientele.

But maybe the sadness I feel is not in any way representative of others. If so, Iím glad. Maybe it is just *my* needs that are not being fulfilled by Pentax. Maybe it is because I shoot FF and the K-1ii showed just how little effort and imagination they were willing to put into FF development. (It really was a disappointment for me and, for my needs, was actually inferior to the K-1 because of the baked in noise reduction slightly softening base iso and weaker battery life.) And maybe it is just that with Sigma gone there is one fewer possible source for the new top notch lenses I really want to satisfy *my* needs: a 70-200mm f4, a new but fairly compact ultra wide prime circa 14mm, an ultrawide zoom that is not a brick and has a filter thread e.g. 16-35mm, so I can use my existing filter system, a TC that works properly on all FF glass.
09-14-2019, 05:56 AM - 1 Like   #394
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
So I read now that Sigma will no longer produce K-mount lenses. Will this increase the pressure on Ricoh to deliver more lenses, such as the D-FA 70-200mm f4? I'm not hopeful. Is it a portent of Pentax's ultimate demise? Quite possibly. With the demise of almost the last (and the last major) third-party lens manufacturer for K-mount, Pentax users are even more at the mercy of Ricoh and their apparently lackadaisical approach to lens development than ever before.

It might be worth noting that the reason underlying Sigma's decision seems to be Pentax's refusal to embrace mirrorless cameras whereas Sigma - rightly in my view - believes that "mirrorless is the future". (That's not a judgement on the objective merits of mirrorless over DSLR - just a claim about market trends.)

It's a sad day for Pentaxians.
They don't produce for mirrorless Fuji or Panasonic or Olympus AFAIK, Socrateeze, so that's a big flaw in what you've written!



09-14-2019, 06:05 AM   #395
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
I'm just going to guess that if Pentax went mirrorless tomorrow and released the K1-01 full frame body with 42Mp sensor and 4k video, Sigma still wouldn't make lenses for it....

-Eric
I think that (and the rest) is a fair point. Probably volume rather the failure to go to mirrorless is the major factor here.
09-14-2019, 06:18 AM - 1 Like   #396
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
I think it is a sad day for Pentaxians because it means that there will be fewer lens options going into the future than otherwise. If you think that is not something to be sad about, then I don’t know what to say.

It is also a signal that Pentax’s unwillingness to embrace mirrorless has real world consequences that makes Pentaxians more dependent on Pentax for their lenses going forward. Maybe you will never want new third party glass. Maybe you already have everything you need. But I’d like to see the options expand rather than decrease going forward, and Im sure I can’t be alone in that.

Whether Nikon and Canon are acting desperately or the market is shrinking is irrelevant to my point. The rise of Sony in the FF market is rooted in their FF mirrorless cameras. Nikon and Canon and Panasonic and Fujifilm and Olympus and Leica and Sigma and... well, you get the picture... have recognized the market is shifting toward mirrorless and are playing catch-up whilst trying to defend their market share in the context of the obvious trend that Sony has led. I don’t know whether Pentax’s decision will be good for them in the long run or bad. They probably decided they are too far behind in the relevant technology or don’t have the resources to compete in the increasingly mainstream mirrorless market as perhaps they once could. Maybe they will carve out a position producing a good lens and a nice camera once in a while that will satisfy an increasingly isolated and dependent clientele.

But maybe the sadness I feel is not in any way representative of others. If so, I’m glad. Maybe it is just *my* needs that are not being fulfilled by Pentax. Maybe it is because I shoot FF and the K-1ii showed just how little effort and imagination they were willing to put into FF development. (It really was a disappointment for me and, for my needs, was actually inferior to the K-1 because of the baked in noise reduction slightly softening base iso and weaker battery life.) And maybe it is just that with Sigma gone there is one fewer possible source for the new top notch lenses I really want to satisfy *my* needs: a 70-200mm f4, a new but fairly compact ultra wide prime circa 14mm, an ultrawide zoom that is not a brick and has a filter thread e.g. 16-35mm, so I can use my existing filter system, a TC that works properly on all FF glass.
Clackers is right, having mirrorless cameras is not a panacea and Sigma seems to have made significantly more lenses for the F mount, which is quite as old and antiquated as the K mount, than they have for mirrorless stars like Fuji, Panasonic, and Olympus. And in point of fact, quite a few of Sigma's lenses are not available for Sony's E mount -- you can mount the EOS Sigma lenses, but it does require an adapter.

As far as your K-1 II comments, I own both a K-1 and K-1 II and I would challenge you to look through my posts and identify which images were taken with my K-1 and which with the K-1 II by their "softness at base iso." It just isn't there. No one even says that the accelerator chip kicks in before iso 640 and so I don't where you got that from.

I like the K-1 II slightly better because it seems to process pixel shift images a bit faster and has slightly better tracking auto focus. At high iso there is less noise which tends to make working with the images a bit easier to manage for me (I'm not a noise reduction guru), but I suppose if you are willing to use DXO's PRIME image and invest a minute or two per image, you might be able to coax a tiny bit more detail out of K-1 files at iso 6400 than K-1 II. But a tiny bit is what it is and it won't be significant enough to make a bad image a keeper or to make you have to pitch an otherwise great image.

Last edited by Rondec; 09-14-2019 at 09:06 AM.
09-14-2019, 07:19 AM - 1 Like   #397
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
They don't produce for mirrorless Fuji or Panasonic or Olympus AFAIK, Socrateeze, so that's a big flaw in what you've written!
Actually Sigma do produce five lenses in Ķ4/3 mount: 16mm f/1.4, 19mm f/2.8, 30mm f/1.4, 30mm f/2.8 and 56mm f/1.4.
09-14-2019, 02:17 PM   #398
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Actually Sigma do produce five lenses in Ķ4/3 mount: 16mm f/1.4, 19mm f/2.8, 30mm f/1.4, 30mm f/2.8 and 56mm f/1.4.
You're right, Mistral, thanks ... I have two of those in E mount for Sony.



09-14-2019, 02:46 PM - 1 Like   #399
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
But maybe the sadness I feel is not in any way representative of others. If so, I’m glad. Maybe it is just *my* needs that are not being fulfilled by Pentax. Maybe it is because I shoot FF and the K-1ii showed just how little effort and imagination they were willing to put into FF development. (It really was a disappointment for me and, for my needs, was actually inferior to the K-1 because of the baked in noise reduction slightly softening base iso and weaker battery life.) And maybe it is just that with Sigma gone there is one fewer possible source for the new top notch lenses I really want to satisfy *my* needs: a 70-200mm f4, a new but fairly compact ultra wide prime circa 14mm, an ultrawide zoom that is not a brick and has a filter thread e.g. 16-35mm, so I can use my existing filter system, a TC that works properly on all FF glass.
I'm sorry you feel that way. When the K-1ii came out, I was 'floored' by how so many members called it a "facelift". I don't have a K-1 of any sort, but I do have a KP. My personal experience is that the 'accelerator' delivers wonderful high ISO images to me; I believe having the 'accelerator' work the way it does is a wonderful flight of imagination, of 'thinking outside the box'. Nikon users gulp twice when they see the unbiased comparisons of my $800 KP to the $1500 D500 that they have been so proud of {and, yes, I do show the evidence to them if they start bragging too much}. I would like Sigma to produce more K-mount lenses, but I'm not sure I would purchase any of them .... their 10-20mm lens is already delivering superb images for me. Honestly, I'm not sure why I would want an f/4 long lens - if I need more light, I just bump ISO speed up a tad using my DA 55-300mm f/4.5-6.3 PLM - the camera can certainly deliver.

Last edited by reh321; 09-14-2019 at 03:15 PM. Reason: concentrate on 'accelerator' instead of camera
09-14-2019, 02:53 PM   #400
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
The less news I read the happier I become..................
Work in the garden, take pictures, go kayaking. Ignore the haters.
that sounds like a really good moto, thanks
09-14-2019, 03:25 PM - 6 Likes   #401
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QuoteOriginally posted by Socrateeze Quote
I think it is a sad day for Pentaxians because it means that there will be fewer lens options going into the future than otherwise. If you think that is not something to be sad about, then I don’t know what to say.

It is also a signal that Pentax’s unwillingness to embrace mirrorless has real world consequences that makes Pentaxians more dependent on Pentax for their lenses going forward. Maybe you will never want new third party glass. Maybe you already have everything you need. But I’d like to see the options expand rather than decrease going forward, and Im sure I can’t be alone in that.

Whether Nikon and Canon are acting desperately or the market is shrinking is irrelevant to my point. The rise of Sony in the FF market is rooted in their FF mirrorless cameras. Nikon and Canon and Panasonic and Fujifilm and Olympus and Leica and Sigma and... well, you get the picture... have recognized the market is shifting toward mirrorless and are playing catch-up whilst trying to defend their market share in the context of the obvious trend that Sony has led. I don’t know whether Pentax’s decision will be good for them in the long run or bad. They probably decided they are too far behind in the relevant technology or don’t have the resources to compete in the increasingly mainstream mirrorless market as perhaps they once could. Maybe they will carve out a position producing a good lens and a nice camera once in a while that will satisfy an increasingly isolated and dependent clientele.

But maybe the sadness I feel is not in any way representative of others. If so, I’m glad. Maybe it is just *my* needs that are not being fulfilled by Pentax. Maybe it is because I shoot FF and the K-1ii showed just how little effort and imagination they were willing to put into FF development. (It really was a disappointment for me and, for my needs, was actually inferior to the K-1 because of the baked in noise reduction slightly softening base iso and weaker battery life.) And maybe it is just that with Sigma gone there is one fewer possible source for the new top notch lenses I really want to satisfy *my* needs: a 70-200mm f4, a new but fairly compact ultra wide prime circa 14mm, an ultrawide zoom that is not a brick and has a filter thread e.g. 16-35mm, so I can use my existing filter system, a TC that works properly on all FF glass.
It seems like you are at least a little fixated on marketshare, and we have seen in recent financial disclosures and marketshare data that marketshare ≠ profitability. If Pentax is not losing money with ~ 2% marketshare then they are doing a nice job treading water during this period of ILC camera "market adjustment".

Pentax has made it clear, for years, that they have no intention of entering the APS-C/FF MILC market. They've indicated this in product releases - "MILC Fighter KP" - and in interviews. There is, of course, always a slight chance they may surprise us, and as a K-01 fan I would love a new Pentax MILC, but to expect such a thing is not living in reality.

As far as "...little effort and imagination they were willing to put into FF development"... it's difficult to take this seriously. The K-1 was groundbreaking, laden with features and innovation for such a bargain price. The MK II may be a tepid follow-up, but that tends to happen, and "marketshare leader" Canon has certainly fallen into that trap mulitple times, as have other brands.

From your posts it sounds as though you made a mistake choosing Pentax, so really the best solution is to sell or trade-in your Pentax gear and move to another brand. It's that simple.
09-17-2019, 05:10 PM   #402
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
It seems like you are at least a little fixated on marketshare, and we have seen in recent financial disclosures and marketshare data that marketshare ≠ profitability. If Pentax is not losing money with ~ 2% marketshare then they are doing a nice job treading water during this period of ILC camera "market adjustment".
I'm not interested in profitability nor marketshare, per se. But these do have an impact for what I do care about: whether Pentax can or will be satisfying my photographic needs now or into the future. If revenues decline then the only way to maintain profitability is to cut costs. One of the chief ways to cut costs is to cut R&D. It's fairly easy to stay profitable if you are not paying people to do R&D or to develop cutting-edge technology, and are just ticking along selling a few cameras with a minor "upgrade" every few years (such as the K-1ii). There is no doubt in my mind that Pentax could remain profitable without entering the mirrorless FF market, but that does nothing to suggest that Pentax will be able or willing to cater for my needs or the needs of some others shooting FF.

QuoteQuote:
Pentax has made it clear, for years, that they have no intention of entering the APS-C/FF MILC market. They've indicated this in product releases - "MILC Fighter KP" - and in interviews. There is, of course, always a slight chance they may surprise us, and as a K-01 fan I would love a new Pentax MILC, but to expect such a thing is not living in reality.
I'm fairly new to Pentax, and I only became aware of their explicit refusal to follow the rest of the market into mirrorless least year. That was a bit disappointing for me, but I didn't get into Pentax because I assumed it would go mirrorless. I did get into Pentax assuming that modern FF lenses that satisfy my needs would be in place nearly four years after launch, so my expectations exceeded reality on that score. I was informed that lens support for Pentax FF is weak, but I hoped to make do with the older glass until the relevant modern lenses appeared. In part, my needs have shifted, so I'm not *blaming* Pentax - its a "no fault" divorce that I'm considering.

QuoteQuote:
As far as "...little effort and imagination they were willing to put into FF development"... it's difficult to take this seriously. The K-1 was groundbreaking, laden with features and innovation for such a bargain price. The MK II may be a tepid follow-up, but that tends to happen, and "marketshare leader" Canon has certainly fallen into that trap mulitple times, as have other brands.
It really is a case of "what have you done for me lately", and what that portends for the future. I entered into the Pentax realm with the K-1 two years ago. And I did so because it really was and is a great camera. Yes - that showed effort and imagination and it was in some ways ground-breaking. It was exciting to work with such a great camera. The k-1ii, for *my* needs, was a step backwards, not forwards. It's still intrinsically a great camera, but only because it is hardly any different from the original. The obvious lack of effort and imagination that went into the mark ii is indicative, to me, of the future, and is corroborated by the painfully slow development of new lenses. Maybe the mark iii, if it ever appears, will show a return to the effort and imagination of the original. We can hope. But I'm not very hopeful and how many years will that take anyway? Meanwhile, we have to wait for lenses to dribble out after extended delays if at all.

QuoteQuote:
From your posts it sounds as though you made a mistake choosing Pentax, so really the best solution is to sell or trade-in your Pentax gear and move to another brand. It's that simple.
I don't view it as a mistake - it was the best I could afford at the time and I have loved shooting with my K-1. It would be hard to sell the gear I've loved using. But you could be right about changing being the best solution.

Thanks for your comments.
09-28-2019, 12:01 PM - 1 Like   #403
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So with the "Unnamed top-end APS-C" camera being previewed at public events, has anyone heard anything about the 70-200 f4?

I would have expected folks to be asking about it and the 85mm, if nothing else (and there's always something else).

I tried to shoot my daughter's soccer match today with a panasonic P&S, and all that resulted in was profanity (under my breath, as she's six...)

-Eric
09-28-2019, 03:41 PM - 1 Like   #404
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
So with the "Unnamed top-end APS-C" camera being previewed at public events, has anyone heard anything about the 70-200 f4?

I would have expected folks to be asking about it and the 85mm, if nothing else (and there's always something else).
Most interest seems to be focused on the DFA* 85 - I would expect a bigger market for the zoom, but people tend to drool over a perfect prime until they see the price.
10-01-2019, 09:53 PM - 1 Like   #405
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How in the hell did this too often repeated topic invade a thread about the lens that I have been waiting far too long to see released? (Honestly Pentax I could have saved up for the damn F2.8 version by now.)

But since I've already stepped in the poop:

I have a mirrorless camera, its called a phone. They get better every year and fit in a pocket, why would anyone buy one the size of a brick?. A camera phone photo now a days is good enough to be usable on a website or even in a news story taken by some passer by (and often they are). They even have surprisingly decent video and sound pickup.
I would be worried that with the newest stuff like apples 3 lens cameras with actual optical zoom that it will begin to eat into APSC sales the same way they already erased little point and shoot digital cameras.

I have seriously considered whether in the future I will replace my Pentax FF with a Gopro or something the same way the FF replaced the last of my film stuff and my apsc camera in one swoop. I have far more use for a video camera for my kids and while scuba diving than a very very clunky still camera and lens that requires far more knowledge and skill on my part to get photos better than what my phone does with a single monkey paw button press.
I could see even more of the news and tabloid photographers switching to small high end video setups and just plucking choice frames out when stills are needed, never miss that one chance moment that way.

Dedicated still picture cameras are becoming more and more an art form than a practical thing. Its already at that point for me, I do it for fun when I have time.

The question is what will a mainly still camera be used for in another 10 years and what other technologies will cut into that, I would be curious to hear the views of Pentax on that topic.

But enough trailing off topic, when is my new lens coming out?
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