New zoom 70-200 F4

beholder3 · 01-27-2019, 11:08 AM

The Nikon 70-200/4 (which came to the market at 1400 EUR btw) weighs 0,85 kg.

The Pentax DA* 50-135, which (1000 EUR) is fully equivalent to a 70-200/4, weighs 0,68 kg.

The old Tamron 70-200/2.8 for Pentax (608 EUR) weighs just 1,15 kg, but it is a full stop faster.

biz-engineer · 01-27-2019, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

The Nikon 70-200/4 (which came to the market at 1400 EUR btw) weighs 0,85 kg.

For landscape as light weight alternative to the DFA*70-200 2.8, it wouldn't need to be f4 constant. If it was a DFA 70-200 f4:5.6 WR , would be fine for me. Like the DFA28-105. Originally I had the 24-70 2.8, then I also got the 28-105 but had shutter shock issues with the K1, now with the K1 II this little DFA28-105 is perfect: small, sharp, quick to focus and filter thread 62mm is great I can even use the filters I used for apsc. If the DFA70-200 f4 has a 77mm filter thread it will be perfect, 82mm is the very limit for 100mm filter systems. The DFA24-70 has a 82mm filter thread and I had to reverse and modify my Cokin filter older to avoid vignetting, same issue with the Haida 100mm system, only one filter can be used without vignetting, stacking 2 filters creates vignetting with the DFA24-70... but not with the DFA28-105.

Just looking at the FA lenses:
-> FA 100-300 f4.5:5.6 weight 605gr. Filter diameter 58mm
-> FA 80-320 f4.5:5.6 weight 550gr. Filter diameter 58mm
-> FA 70-200 f4:5.6 weight 465gr. Filter diameter 49mm !

The DFA28-105 weights 440gr.

You can carry 2 of those in a backpack, even for hiking (I've carried the DFA150-450 at altitude 3000m to photograph alpine ibex, it was good fitness :-) ).

Kunzite · 01-27-2019, 01:03 PM - **3 Likes**

Let's get a bit more up to date, as Pentax won't work at the same standards as in the past:
Canon 70-300 f/4-5.6 - 710g, 67mm filters
Nikon 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 - 680g, 67mm filters
Sony 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 - 845g, 72mm filters
I'm afraid to look at Sigma, I'm sure they must have a 70-300 f/1.4 weighting 10kg

Don't we all know the lens roadmap? Pentax has two lenses in this range planned: the D FA 70-200 f/4, and a 70-300-ish telephoto zoom.

biz-engineer · 01-28-2019, 05:18 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

Don't we all know the lens roadmap? Pentax has two lenses in this range planned: the D FA 70-200 f/4, and a 70-300-ish telephoto zoom.

Strange. Why would there be both 70-200 f4 and 70-300, too much overlap to my taste. Since there is already the excellent 70-200 f2.8, I would rather see a light weight alternative optimized for size/ weight rather than a 800 gr f4 lens. What does the roadmap says? Should that be asked again to Ricoh at CP+?
JAre

Kunzite · 01-28-2019, 07:33 AM - **1 Like**

Keep that question for Adam's interview with Ricoh Imaging; it's a good one, to know how far will they go in completing the D FA lens line. But I can think of a possible reason: the 70-200 f/4 would work well with a rear converter.

The roadmap will be updated for CP+, sure; and it's not meant to be precise (or a binding contract, if you want). But I expect only the very next lenses to have the basic specs (i.e. focal range and max aperture)... I doubt we'll find out much about the 70-300-ish zoom.

By the way, I'm surprised at the lack of solid rumors/leaks.

northcoastgreg · 01-28-2019, 07:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Strange. Why would there be both 70-200 f4 and 70-300, too much overlap to my taste. Since there is already the excellent 70-200 f2.8, I would rather see a light weight alternative optimized for size/ weight rather than a 800 gr f4 lens.

I agree. When the 70-300 comes out, the Pentax DFA line-up will have four telephoto zooms, two standard zooms, and one wide-angle zoom. And here I was under the impression that one of the great advantages of FF was on the wide angle side of things. Hard to believe that by how this DFA line-up is shaping up. Even the prime line-up is tilted toward the normal and telephoto side of things, with nothing wide than 31mm.

This is not to suggest that a DFA 70-200 f4 won't be a great addition to the line-up. I just have questions as to whether it should have been given priority to a slow aperture 70-300 and a slow aperture wide angle zoom. The size, weight and cost of the current wide angle and telephoto zooms in the DFA line-up has forced quite a few K-1 users to rely on inferior legacy glass.

biz-engineer · 01-28-2019, 08:14 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

But I can think of a possible reason: the 70-200 f/4 would work well with a rear converter.

I've had TC, sold them, buy TC again and sold again. Image comparison of crop vs TC told me that TC is only valuable when the sensor resolution doesn't allow to crop, e.g 24Mpixel instead of 36Mp or 45Mp. AF generally works better without TC, so unless the lens out-resolve the sensor by a good margin TC don't bring anything (get the image on the whole frame and bump iso to compensate for loss of light => no better than cropping of high res. sensor). So, unless Pentax makes a fast 16Mp or 24Mp camera, I'll never get any TC again. TC is great with a 16Mp full frame that boast 10 frames per seconds, OTOH TC on a K1 is a waste.

Mistral75 · 01-28-2019, 08:15 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

(...)

By the way, I'm surprised at the lack of solid rumors/leaks.

When you see that Ricoh themselves say that the Ricoh GR III that people will be able to touch and try at CP+ will be a prototype under development...

RonHendriks1966 · 01-28-2019, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

By the way, I'm surprised at the lack of solid rumors/leaks.

Maybe CP+ is all about GRIII and nothing else.....

Kunzite · 01-28-2019, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

When you see that Ricoh themselves say that the Ricoh GR III that people will be able to touch and try at CP+ will be a prototype under development...

Nonsense.

biz-engineer · 01-28-2019, 09:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mistral75

When you see that Ricoh themselves say that the Ricoh GR III that people will be able to touch and try at CP+ will be a prototype under development...

Well, that's not true. I was in Japan in November last year, and I tried a GRIII in my own hands, so, I can tell you that the GRIII is real and it works. But I'll really curious why things happen behind the closed door of Japan, and to me who could get a sense of various tonalities of the Japanese culture (from the traditional Japan post WWII to the new generation of teenage junkies), it's amazing that Ricoh Imaging are being so back anchored in the traditional Japanese model and so cut out from the rest of the world. I find this both fascinating, and also frustrating: fascinating because traditional Japanese culture is fascinating for me ; frustrating because it could be that Ricoh Imaging takes development directions based on Japan and that those choices may not make sense for me anymore in the future.

Mistral75 · 01-28-2019, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Nonsense.

Really? Still they do. You who believe in Ricoh Imaging's words and in their words only, the following is what they published on 15 January:

Originally posted by Ricoh Imaging:

新型GR　タッチ&トライ
開発中の新型GR（試作機）のタッチ＆トライコーナーをご用意。進化した「GR」をどこよりも早くご体験いただけます。

Translation:

New GR Touch & Try
There will be a corner to touch and try the new GR (prototype) under development. You will be able to experience the evolved 'GR' earlier than anywhere else.

Source: CP+2019出展案内│RICOH IMAGING

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Well, that's BS. (...)

See above.

biz-engineer · 01-28-2019, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

See above.

They aren't going to write released when it's not. There will be an official press release dedicated to the GRIII and that's the way things work for every company out there.

Mistral75 · 01-28-2019, 09:39 AM - **1 Like**

They couldn't write 'released', I agree. But they didn't need to. Nor did they need to use two expressions to emphasise the same thing, 試作機 (prototype) and 開発 (under development). They could have simply written

中の新型GRのタッチ＆トライコーナーをご用意。進化した「GR」をどこよりも早くご体験いただけます。
(There will be a corner to touch & try the new GR. You will be able to experience the evolved 'GR' earlier than anywhere else.)

However, they chose not to do so.

ogl · 01-28-2019, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Translation:

New GR Touch & Try
There will be a corner to touch and try the new GR (prototype) under development. You will be able to experience the evolved 'GR' earlier than anywhere else.

Source: CP+2019出展案内│RICOH IMAGING

It means that GRIII is still under development and it won't be launched after CP+2019? Maybe close to summer?

01-27-2019, 12:37 PM	#47
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by beholder3 The Nikon 70-200/4 (which came to the market at 1400 EUR btw) weighs 0,85 kg. For landscape as light weight alternative to the DFA70-200 2.8, it wouldn't need to be f4 constant. If it was a DFA 70-200 f4:5.6 WR , would be fine for me. Like the DFA28-105. Originally I had the 24-70 2.8, then I also got the 28-105 but had shutter shock issues with the K1, now with the K1 II this little DFA28-105 is perfect: small, sharp, quick to focus and filter thread 62mm is great I can even use the filters I used for apsc. If the DFA70-200 f4 has a 77mm filter thread it will be perfect, 82mm is the very limit for 100mm filter systems. The DFA24-70 has a 82mm filter thread and I had to reverse and modify my Cokin filter older to avoid vignetting, same issue with the Haida 100mm system, only one filter can be used without vignetting, stacking 2 filters creates vignetting with the DFA24-70... but not with the DFA28-105. Just looking at the FA lenses: -> FA 100-300 f4.5:5.6 weight 605gr. Filter diameter 58mm -> FA 80-320 f4.5:5.6 weight 550gr. Filter diameter 58mm -> FA 70-200 f4:5.6 weight 465gr. Filter diameter 49mm ! The DFA28-105 weights 440gr. You can carry 2 of those in a backpack, even for hiking (I've carried the DFA150-450 at altitude 3000m to photograph alpine ibex, it was good fitness :-) ). Last edited by biz-engineer; 01-27-2019 at 01:00 PM.*

01-28-2019, 09:00 AM - 1 Like	#56
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by Mistral75 When you see that Ricoh themselves say that the Ricoh GR III that people will be able to touch and try at CP+ will be a prototype under development... Well, that's not true. I was in Japan in November last year, and I tried a GRIII in my own hands, so, I can tell you that the GRIII is real and it works. But I'll really curious why things happen behind the closed door of Japan, and to me who could get a sense of various tonalities of the Japanese culture (from the traditional Japan post WWII to the new generation of teenage junkies), it's amazing that Ricoh Imaging are being so back anchored in the traditional Japanese model and so cut out from the rest of the world. I find this both fascinating, and also frustrating: fascinating because traditional Japanese culture is fascinating for me ; frustrating because it could be that Ricoh Imaging takes development directions based on Japan and that those choices may not make sense for me anymore in the future. Last edited by biz-engineer; 01-28-2019 at 09:06 AM.

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01-27-2019, 11:08 AM	#46
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	The Nikon 70-200/4 (which came to the market at 1400 EUR btw) weighs 0,85 kg. The Pentax DA* 50-135, which (1000 EUR) is fully equivalent to a 70-200/4, weighs 0,68 kg. The old Tamron 70-200/2.8 for Pentax (608 EUR) weighs just 1,15 kg, but it is a full stop faster.

01-27-2019, 01:03 PM - 3 Likes	#48
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Let's get a bit more up to date, as Pentax won't work at the same standards as in the past: Canon 70-300 f/4-5.6 - 710g, 67mm filters Nikon 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 - 680g, 67mm filters Sony 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 - 845g, 72mm filters I'm afraid to look at Sigma, I'm sure they must have a 70-300 f/1.4 weighting 10kg Don't we all know the lens roadmap? Pentax has two lenses in this range planned: the D FA 70-200 f/4, and a 70-300-ish telephoto zoom.

01-28-2019, 05:18 AM - 1 Like	#49
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by Kunzite Don't we all know the lens roadmap? Pentax has two lenses in this range planned: the D FA 70-200 f/4, and a 70-300-ish telephoto zoom. Strange. Why would there be both 70-200 f4 and 70-300, too much overlap to my taste. Since there is already the excellent 70-200 f2.8, I would rather see a light weight alternative optimized for size/ weight rather than a 800 gr f4 lens. What does the roadmap says? Should that be asked again to Ricoh at CP+? JAre

01-28-2019, 07:33 AM - 1 Like	#50
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Keep that question for Adam's interview with Ricoh Imaging; it's a good one, to know how far will they go in completing the D FA lens line. But I can think of a possible reason: the 70-200 f/4 would work well with a rear converter. The roadmap will be updated for CP+, sure; and it's not meant to be precise (or a binding contract, if you want). But I expect only the very next lenses to have the basic specs (i.e. focal range and max aperture)... I doubt we'll find out much about the 70-300-ish zoom. By the way, I'm surprised at the lack of solid rumors/leaks.

01-28-2019, 07:51 AM - 1 Like	#51
northcoastgreg Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Northern Michigan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,173	Originally posted by biz-engineer Strange. Why would there be both 70-200 f4 and 70-300, too much overlap to my taste. Since there is already the excellent 70-200 f2.8, I would rather see a light weight alternative optimized for size/ weight rather than a 800 gr f4 lens. I agree. When the 70-300 comes out, the Pentax DFA line-up will have four telephoto zooms, two standard zooms, and one wide-angle zoom. And here I was under the impression that one of the great advantages of FF was on the wide angle side of things. Hard to believe that by how this DFA line-up is shaping up. Even the prime line-up is tilted toward the normal and telephoto side of things, with nothing wide than 31mm. This is not to suggest that a DFA 70-200 f4 won't be a great addition to the line-up. I just have questions as to whether it should have been given priority to a slow aperture 70-300 and a slow aperture wide angle zoom. The size, weight and cost of the current wide angle and telephoto zooms in the DFA line-up has forced quite a few K-1 users to rely on inferior legacy glass.

01-28-2019, 08:14 AM - 1 Like	#52
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by Kunzite But I can think of a possible reason: the 70-200 f/4 would work well with a rear converter. I've had TC, sold them, buy TC again and sold again. Image comparison of crop vs TC told me that TC is only valuable when the sensor resolution doesn't allow to crop, e.g 24Mpixel instead of 36Mp or 45Mp. AF generally works better without TC, so unless the lens out-resolve the sensor by a good margin TC don't bring anything (get the image on the whole frame and bump iso to compensate for loss of light => no better than cropping of high res. sensor). So, unless Pentax makes a fast 16Mp or 24Mp camera, I'll never get any TC again. TC is great with a 16Mp full frame that boast 10 frames per seconds, OTOH TC on a K1 is a waste.

01-28-2019, 08:15 AM - 1 Like	#53
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Kunzite (...) By the way, I'm surprised at the lack of solid rumors/leaks. When you see that Ricoh themselves say that the Ricoh GR III that people will be able to touch and try at CP+ will be a prototype under development...

01-28-2019, 08:39 AM	#54
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Kunzite By the way, I'm surprised at the lack of solid rumors/leaks. Maybe CP+ is all about GRIII and nothing else.....

01-28-2019, 08:45 AM	#55
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Mistral75 When you see that Ricoh themselves say that the Ricoh GR III that people will be able to touch and try at CP+ will be a prototype under development... Nonsense.

01-28-2019, 09:02 AM	#57
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Kunzite Nonsense. Really? Still they do. You who believe in Ricoh Imaging's words and in their words only, the following is what they published on 15 January: Originally posted by Ricoh Imaging: 新型GR　タッチ&トライ開発中の新型GR（試作機）のタッチ＆トライコーナーをご用意。進化した「GR」をどこよりも早くご体験いただけます。 Translation: New GR Touch & Try There will be a corner to touch and try the new GR (prototype) under development. You will be able to experience the evolved 'GR' earlier than anywhere else. Source: CP+2019出展案内│RICOH IMAGING Originally posted by biz-engineer Well, that's BS. (...) See above.

01-28-2019, 09:21 AM	#58
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by Mistral75 See above. They aren't going to write released when it's not. There will be an official press release dedicated to the GRIII and that's the way things work for every company out there.

01-28-2019, 09:39 AM - 1 Like	#59
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	They couldn't write 'released', I agree. But they didn't need to. Nor did they need to use two expressions to emphasise the same thing, 試作機 (prototype) and 開発 (under development). They could have simply written 中の新型GRのタッチ＆トライコーナーをご用意。進化した「GR」をどこよりも早くご体験いただけます。 (There will be a corner to touch & try the new GR. You will be able to experience the evolved 'GR' earlier than anywhere else.) However, they chose not to do so.

01-28-2019, 10:05 AM	#60
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Mistral75 Translation: New GR Touch & Try There will be a corner to touch and try the new GR (prototype) under development. You will be able to experience the evolved 'GR' earlier than anywhere else. Source: CP+2019出展案内│RICOH IMAGING It means that GRIII is still under development and it won't be launched after CP+2019? Maybe close to summer?