New zoom 70-200 F4

**Rondec** · 08-27-2019, 08:36 AM

Those who know won't share...

**Larrymc** · 08-27-2019, 10:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

I thought this thread was about the roadmapped DFA70-200/4.0

Can we get back on topic? Thread bans may ensue for recalcitrants.

Please Please Please issue them!!!

biz-engineer · 08-27-2019, 01:38 PM

Will that lens be cancelled, due to the DA*60-250 f4 covering the FF image circle after being modified?

**TwoUptons** · 08-27-2019, 03:52 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Will that lens be cancelled, due to the DA*60-250 f4 covering the FF image circle after being modified?

That would be weird to sell as a DFA... is it *quality at the edges on FF?

It also seems weird from a customer satisfaction perspective to sell a lens that requires a service in order to work on the flagship...

And would they rework it as a DFA 60-250 with a revised baffle? Other changes? That might be expensive, especially if development of the 70-200 is done, so there wouldn’t be as much cost savings...

There was also a rumor the 70-200 was going to be compact, which is a different thing from the 60-250 and would even offer something to the APS crowd...

-Eric

Sandy Hancock · 08-27-2019, 04:13 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Will that lens be cancelled, due to the DA*60-250 f4 covering the FF image circle after being modified?

I sincerely hope not.
I'm currently trying for the second time to fall in love with the DA*60-250, and failing. The focus breathing, slow focus and external zoom just don't push my buttons.
A competent, modern DFA70-200/4.0 would get my money in a heartbeat, and three of my current lenses would be on the marketplace.

deus ursus · 08-27-2019, 04:19 PM

To me it seemed a bit strange to develop a 70‐200 f/4 zoom when they already have the 60-250 f/4, which can be made FF compatible with a small redesign of the innards. This makes me believe the new 70-200 brings some other advantage(s) to the table compared to the 60-250, like size, weight and/or some other feature.

**Rondec** · 08-27-2019, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by deus ursus

To me it seemed a bit strange to develop a 70‐200 f/4 zoom when they already have the 60-250 f/4, which can be made FF compatible with a small redesign of the innards. This makes me believe the new 70-200 brings some other advantage(s) to the table compared to the 60-250, like size, weight and/or some other feature.

The 70-200 f4 will be (a) smaller, (b) have better compatibility with full frame without modification (read better border sharpness wide open) and (c) will have significantly faster auto focus (DC motor or something akin to that).

I think Pentax probably looked at the 60-250 and felt as though in order to modify it adequately to work for full frame and add a faster focus motor, that it would be as easy to just start from the beginning with a new lens design.

biz-engineer · 08-27-2019, 10:18 PM

The D-FA 28-105 is now becoming my most used lens, because it is small, sharp and I seldom need faster than f5.6 for travel / landscapes, and it is (relatively) inexpensive. A second lens 100-200 or 135 prime, f4 / f5.6 would be a nice addition to the travel & landscape kit, so I hope Ricoh will renew the tradition of small and sharp lenses, f4 / f5.6. To be honest, I initially liked the D-FA 24-70 f2.8 more because of the size/balance with the K1, but now I don't find it very appropriate for portraits (70mm is a bit too short for head shots on FF), and I never need f2.8 or even f4 for landscape shots, and for portraits I'd rather use fast primes such as the D-FA50 and hopefully the 85. I see competitors releasing again f2.8 zooms, priced > $2000+, those don't fit what I'm looking for, let me thinking if all folks like me are going to be left behind or are going to be redirected to apsc or micro 4/3. I'd hope Ricoh will release that 70-200 f4 as compact and light weight as possible so that it's easy to carry on travels, and I hope they won't price it $2000.

**Serkevan** · 08-27-2019, 10:51 PM - **1 Like**

I'm betting on a travel-friendly lens:
-Good, but not ultimate-sharpness-across-frame optics
-Weight under 700 g (half of the 60-250)
-Relatively fast focusing motor
-Price around 1000€

Something like a modern version of the old Canon L 70-200 f/4 (the one without IS). It's probably doable.

**jatrax** · 08-28-2019, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Will that lens be cancelled, due to the DA*60-250 f4 covering the FF image circle after being modified?

I sincerely doubt that. The 60-250 is a wonderful lens and I suspect I have more 'keeper' images from it than any other lens but it is now old technology. If they released a new FF 60-250 I would pre-order (which I have done only once in my life) but I fear that will not happen. They will have the 70-200 f/4 and the 70-200 f/2.8 and I do not see them having another lens in that range.
I sold my 60-250 on in anticipation of the 70-200 f/4 and I have been waiting patiently. Hopefully, worth the wait. The only frustration I had with the 60-250 was the slow focus motor. I mostly shoot landscapes so it was not a real big issue but enough that I would like a modern, faster, focus motor.

Karen the Star · 08-28-2019, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

I sincerely doubt that. The 60-250 is a wonderful lens and I suspect I have more 'keeper' images from it than any other lens but it is now old technology. If they released a new FF 60-250 I would pre-order (which I have done only once in my life) but I fear that will not happen. They will have the 70-200 f/4 and the 70-200 f/2.8 and I do not see them having another lens in that range.
I sold my 60-250 on in anticipation of the 70-200 f/4 and I have been waiting patiently. Hopefully, worth the wait. The only frustration I had with the 60-250 was the slow focus motor. I mostly shoot landscapes so it was not a real big issue but enough that I would like a modern, faster, focus motor.

As telescope lens, a slow motor will be a fatal weakness, for we use them snipe birds or other moving object so much.

Socrateeze · 09-11-2019, 01:48 PM

So I read now that Sigma will no longer produce K-mount lenses. Will this increase the pressure on Ricoh to deliver more lenses, such as the D-FA 70-200mm f4? I'm not hopeful. Is it a portent of Pentax's ultimate demise? Quite possibly. With the demise of almost the last (and the last major) third-party lens manufacturer for K-mount, Pentax users are even more at the mercy of Ricoh and their apparently lackadaisical approach to lens development than ever before.

It might be worth noting that the reason underlying Sigma's decision seems to be Pentax's refusal to embrace mirrorless cameras whereas Sigma - rightly in my view - believes that "mirrorless is the future". (That's not a judgement on the objective merits of mirrorless over DSLR - just a claim about market trends.)

It's a sad day for Pentaxians.

**TwoUptons** · 09-11-2019, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Socrateeze

So I read now that Sigma will no longer produce K-mount lenses. Will this increase the pressure on Ricoh to deliver more lenses, such as the D-FA 70-200mm f4? I'm not hopeful. Is it a portent of Pentax's ultimate demise? Quite possibly. With the demise of almost the last (and the last major) third-party lens manufacturer for K-mount, Pentax users are even more at the mercy of Ricoh and their apparently lackadaisical approach to lens development than ever before.

It might be worth noting that the reason underlying Sigma's decision seems to be Pentax's refusal to embrace mirrorless cameras whereas Sigma - rightly in my view - believes that "mirrorless is the future". (That's not a judgement on the objective merits of mirrorless over DSLR - just a claim about market trends.)

It's a sad day for Pentaxians.

I'm just going to guess that if Pentax went mirrorless tomorrow and released the K1-01 full frame body with 42Mp sensor and 4k video, Sigma still wouldn't make lenses for it.
Unless it used a Nikon, Canon, or Leica mount...

SLR or mirrorless, the volumes from Pentax aren't there, and until they are, the big third-party lens makers won't be doing anything for Pentax...
This isn't the 1990s, where there was enough lens volume from everyone to make keeping up with autofocus electronics worth it...

That said, I'm hoping Ricoh is still planning on releasing the 70-200 f4... Football season has started again, and I was hoping to have something better than my F70-210...

-Eric

**jatrax** · 09-12-2019, 06:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Socrateeze

It's a sad day for Pentaxians.

Why? Sigma abandoned K-mount years ago. Just because they finally formally announced it makes no difference. They were just waiting to use up the old inventory.

Anyway, I don't think it is a sad day for Pentax at all. Perhaps a sad day for photography because as the market continues to shrink hard choices need to be made. Introduction of new gear will slow to a crawl. Nikon and Canon pushing mirrorless is IMHO a last gasp attempt at keeping sales high enough to survive.

awscreo · 09-12-2019, 06:21 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jatrax

Why? Sigma abandoned K-mount years ago. Just because they finally formally announced it makes no difference. They were just waiting to use up the old inventory.

Anyway, I don't think it is a sad day for Pentax at all. Perhaps a sad day for photography because as the market continues to shrink hard choices need to be made. Introduction of new gear will slow to a crawl. Nikon and Canon pushing mirrorless is IMHO a last gasp attempt at keeping sales high enough to survive.

I made a mistake of reading comments under PP news article about Sigma leaving k mount. Surprising how many people are gleeful about it. It's like Pentax personally bullied them in school and now they're having their revenge) I'll never understand the tribalism of photo community..

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08-27-2019, 08:36 AM	#376
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,662	Those who know won't share...

08-27-2019, 10:22 AM - 1 Like	#377
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,252	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock I thought this thread was about the roadmapped DFA70-200/4.0 Can we get back on topic? Thread bans may ensue for recalcitrants. Please Please Please issue them!!!

08-27-2019, 01:38 PM	#378
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,237	Will that lens be cancelled, due to the DA*60-250 f4 covering the FF image circle after being modified?

08-27-2019, 03:52 PM - 1 Like	#379
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,223	Originally posted by biz-engineer Will that lens be cancelled, due to the DA60-250 f4 covering the FF image circle after being modified? That would be weird to sell as a DFA... is it quality at the edges on FF? It also seems weird from a customer satisfaction perspective to sell a lens that requires a service in order to work on the flagship... And would they rework it as a DFA 60-250 with a revised baffle? Other changes? That might be expensive, especially if development of the 70-200 is done, so there wouldn’t be as much cost savings... There was also a rumor the 70-200 was going to be compact, which is a different thing from the 60-250 and would even offer something to the APS crowd... -Eric

08-27-2019, 04:13 PM - 1 Like	#380
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Originally posted by biz-engineer Will that lens be cancelled, due to the DA60-250 f4 covering the FF image circle after being modified? I sincerely hope not. I'm currently trying for the second time to fall in love with the DA60-250, and failing. The focus breathing, slow focus and external zoom just don't push my buttons. A competent, modern DFA70-200/4.0 would get my money in a heartbeat, and three of my current lenses would be on the marketplace.

08-27-2019, 04:19 PM	#381
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	To me it seemed a bit strange to develop a 70‐200 f/4 zoom when they already have the 60-250 f/4, which can be made FF compatible with a small redesign of the innards. This makes me believe the new 70-200 brings some other advantage(s) to the table compared to the 60-250, like size, weight and/or some other feature.

08-27-2019, 06:18 PM	#382
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,662	Originally posted by deus ursus To me it seemed a bit strange to develop a 70‐200 f/4 zoom when they already have the 60-250 f/4, which can be made FF compatible with a small redesign of the innards. This makes me believe the new 70-200 brings some other advantage(s) to the table compared to the 60-250, like size, weight and/or some other feature. The 70-200 f4 will be (a) smaller, (b) have better compatibility with full frame without modification (read better border sharpness wide open) and (c) will have significantly faster auto focus (DC motor or something akin to that). I think Pentax probably looked at the 60-250 and felt as though in order to modify it adequately to work for full frame and add a faster focus motor, that it would be as easy to just start from the beginning with a new lens design.

08-27-2019, 10:18 PM	#383
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,237	The D-FA 28-105 is now becoming my most used lens, because it is small, sharp and I seldom need faster than f5.6 for travel / landscapes, and it is (relatively) inexpensive. A second lens 100-200 or 135 prime, f4 / f5.6 would be a nice addition to the travel & landscape kit, so I hope Ricoh will renew the tradition of small and sharp lenses, f4 / f5.6. To be honest, I initially liked the D-FA 24-70 f2.8 more because of the size/balance with the K1, but now I don't find it very appropriate for portraits (70mm is a bit too short for head shots on FF), and I never need f2.8 or even f4 for landscape shots, and for portraits I'd rather use fast primes such as the D-FA50 and hopefully the 85. I see competitors releasing again f2.8 zooms, priced > $2000+, those don't fit what I'm looking for, let me thinking if all folks like me are going to be left behind or are going to be redirected to apsc or micro 4/3. I'd hope Ricoh will release that 70-200 f4 as compact and light weight as possible so that it's easy to carry on travels, and I hope they won't price it $2000.

08-27-2019, 10:51 PM - 1 Like	#384
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	I'm betting on a travel-friendly lens: -Good, but not ultimate-sharpness-across-frame optics -Weight under 700 g (half of the 60-250) -Relatively fast focusing motor -Price around 1000€ Something like a modern version of the old Canon L 70-200 f/4 (the one without IS). It's probably doable.

08-28-2019, 08:46 AM	#385
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by biz-engineer Will that lens be cancelled, due to the DA*60-250 f4 covering the FF image circle after being modified? I sincerely doubt that. The 60-250 is a wonderful lens and I suspect I have more 'keeper' images from it than any other lens but it is now old technology. If they released a new FF 60-250 I would pre-order (which I have done only once in my life) but I fear that will not happen. They will have the 70-200 f/4 and the 70-200 f/2.8 and I do not see them having another lens in that range. I sold my 60-250 on in anticipation of the 70-200 f/4 and I have been waiting patiently. Hopefully, worth the wait. The only frustration I had with the 60-250 was the slow focus motor. I mostly shoot landscapes so it was not a real big issue but enough that I would like a modern, faster, focus motor.

08-28-2019, 08:49 AM	#386
Karen the Star Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Sapporo, Hokkaido Posts: 150	Originally posted by jatrax I sincerely doubt that. The 60-250 is a wonderful lens and I suspect I have more 'keeper' images from it than any other lens but it is now old technology. If they released a new FF 60-250 I would pre-order (which I have done only once in my life) but I fear that will not happen. They will have the 70-200 f/4 and the 70-200 f/2.8 and I do not see them having another lens in that range. I sold my 60-250 on in anticipation of the 70-200 f/4 and I have been waiting patiently. Hopefully, worth the wait. The only frustration I had with the 60-250 was the slow focus motor. I mostly shoot landscapes so it was not a real big issue but enough that I would like a modern, faster, focus motor. As telescope lens, a slow motor will be a fatal weakness, for we use them snipe birds or other moving object so much.

09-11-2019, 01:48 PM	#387
Socrateeze Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Vancouver Posts: 58	So I read now that Sigma will no longer produce K-mount lenses. Will this increase the pressure on Ricoh to deliver more lenses, such as the D-FA 70-200mm f4? I'm not hopeful. Is it a portent of Pentax's ultimate demise? Quite possibly. With the demise of almost the last (and the last major) third-party lens manufacturer for K-mount, Pentax users are even more at the mercy of Ricoh and their apparently lackadaisical approach to lens development than ever before. It might be worth noting that the reason underlying Sigma's decision seems to be Pentax's refusal to embrace mirrorless cameras whereas Sigma - rightly in my view - believes that "mirrorless is the future". (That's not a judgement on the objective merits of mirrorless over DSLR - just a claim about market trends.) It's a sad day for Pentaxians.

09-11-2019, 03:00 PM	#388
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,223	Originally posted by Socrateeze So I read now that Sigma will no longer produce K-mount lenses. Will this increase the pressure on Ricoh to deliver more lenses, such as the D-FA 70-200mm f4? I'm not hopeful. Is it a portent of Pentax's ultimate demise? Quite possibly. With the demise of almost the last (and the last major) third-party lens manufacturer for K-mount, Pentax users are even more at the mercy of Ricoh and their apparently lackadaisical approach to lens development than ever before. It might be worth noting that the reason underlying Sigma's decision seems to be Pentax's refusal to embrace mirrorless cameras whereas Sigma - rightly in my view - believes that "mirrorless is the future". (That's not a judgement on the objective merits of mirrorless over DSLR - just a claim about market trends.) It's a sad day for Pentaxians. I'm just going to guess that if Pentax went mirrorless tomorrow and released the K1-01 full frame body with 42Mp sensor and 4k video, Sigma still wouldn't make lenses for it. Unless it used a Nikon, Canon, or Leica mount... SLR or mirrorless, the volumes from Pentax aren't there, and until they are, the big third-party lens makers won't be doing anything for Pentax... This isn't the 1990s, where there was enough lens volume from everyone to make keeping up with autofocus electronics worth it... That said, I'm hoping Ricoh is still planning on releasing the 70-200 f4... Football season has started again, and I was hoping to have something better than my F70-210... -Eric

09-12-2019, 06:16 PM - 1 Like	#389
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Socrateeze It's a sad day for Pentaxians. Why? Sigma abandoned K-mount years ago. Just because they finally formally announced it makes no difference. They were just waiting to use up the old inventory. Anyway, I don't think it is a sad day for Pentax at all. Perhaps a sad day for photography because as the market continues to shrink hard choices need to be made. Introduction of new gear will slow to a crawl. Nikon and Canon pushing mirrorless is IMHO a last gasp attempt at keeping sales high enough to survive.

09-12-2019, 06:21 PM - 1 Like	#390
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by jatrax Why? Sigma abandoned K-mount years ago. Just because they finally formally announced it makes no difference. They were just waiting to use up the old inventory. Anyway, I don't think it is a sad day for Pentax at all. Perhaps a sad day for photography because as the market continues to shrink hard choices need to be made. Introduction of new gear will slow to a crawl. Nikon and Canon pushing mirrorless is IMHO a last gasp attempt at keeping sales high enough to survive. I made a mistake of reading comments under PP news article about Sigma leaving k mount. Surprising how many people are gleeful about it. It's like Pentax personally bullied them in school and now they're having their revenge) I'll never understand the tribalism of photo community..