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11-25-2018, 04:16 PM - 1 Like   #31
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I think when you see something called a 'pro camera', it was designed for and is marketed to professionals and more realistically, prosumers. The latter way outnumber the former.

And that's a very different, much more limited statement than 'professionals only use professional cameras'. I think the general public might believe that, but we in the hobby know better.

11-25-2018, 04:29 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
Why do you think those photos are poor. I can, without much effort, replicate any realestate photo you could make with any camera if you dont go wider than 28mm.
Yes i usually charge 50-100 bucks for the photos but the customers are perfectly satisfied with end results and because of that my smartphone is my pro tool. I get paid for my work. Not everyone is willing to pay $1000 for a set of photos you know...
I'm not saying that a good photographer cannot get good results with a smartphone. I'm saying that just because one gets paid, does not mean that the work is pro level.
11-25-2018, 06:31 PM - 1 Like   #33
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Just look here.
These Are 20 Of The World's Best Photos Taken With Cell Phones | HuffPost Canada
11-25-2018, 07:33 PM   #34
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I would put most of those shots into a photo journalism category Norm... and they are great and have the impact as intended as far as I'm concerned. The work was done in the photogs imagination of the shot and in the leg work and gumption to go get them, as it almost always is anyway, Those fall into the "the best camera is the one you have with you" deal, sure, other types of cameras could/might have done a better job, but may not have been practical or even allowed in some areas, whereas the ubiquitous cell goes ignored and you can get the shot. Pro equipment could mean many things to many people, but to me it always had more to do with the support from the manufacturer... like when you went to the olympics, and they had spare bodies and lenses for you at the ready, in case yours got smacked by a downhill skier. LOL! Joking aside, it could also be said that the best camera is also the one the manufacturer makes sure is always with you or is ready to make sure you have a loaner handy so it is always with you. How times have changed...
Eric

11-25-2018, 09:47 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
And now they are part of amazon, they publish content on what's likely to generate more sales on amazon.
I don't think they'll ever admit to that and it may not be an explicit policy, in other words, perhaps DPReview staff are really free to publish whatever they feel fit without Amazon influencing anything.

However, it must be in the back of the mind of DPReview staff that generating sales for Amazon reflects well on their work whereas continued periods of not making a difference would potentially lead Amazon to reconsider why they should entertain a review site. If the bills are paid by adverts instead of Amazon, well then things are even worse.

The problem with being indirectly rewarded for generating sales is that it will (subconsciously or not) steer recommendations towards generating sales volume. If you can convert a DSLR shooter to a MILC system, you are not just generating a camera sale, but a whole host of new lens sales. Adapters are a pain w.r.t. handling and often come with downsides regarding loss of functionality (no more "eye AF", etc.), speed, accuracy, etc. So a MILC camera sale comes with the promise of selling a host of native lenses further down the line.

I have a tough time imagining that this isn't influencing (subconsciously or not) what is going on at DPReview. Or are they really preferring sensors with banding and striping, AF systems with zero (0!) cross-type AF points, viewfinders that stutter while shooting/panning, etc.? No doubt MILCs have advantages but they also have a host of disadvantages. DPReview does a poor job of painting a balanced picture and, in particular, understanding what makes certain cameras that don't tick their action photography and video boxes worthwhile having.
11-25-2018, 10:00 PM   #36
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Well done Ricoh, keep up the good work
11-26-2018, 12:15 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
I'm saying that just because one gets paid, does not mean that the work is pro level.
But it is to my customers. By the way, what would be "pro level" for you?
11-26-2018, 12:16 AM - 2 Likes   #38
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11-26-2018, 12:23 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Just look here.These Are 20 Of The World's Best Photos Taken With Cell Phones | HuffPost Canada
Smarphones have got to a point at where they are more than enough to take most of work if you really dont need to shoot some tele shoots or dont need handheld high ISO or AF tracking. They shine at daytime street photography are good enough for a lot of realestate/architectual/product photography and getting better and better for landscapes. New ones even get 2 camera modules. Only drawback is that the so called "telephoto lens" has smaller image sensor and smaller aperture than the main wide module. Ill probably never get used to that fake bokeh thing.

I hope they fix that drawback sooner than later

ill just add this here https://mobilephotoawards.com/2017-mpa-category-winners-honorable-mentions/

Last edited by Trickortreat; 11-26-2018 at 01:25 AM.
11-26-2018, 12:40 AM - 2 Likes   #40
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Any "review" site that even uses the term "pro" in a review is actually a bunch of amateur interns. Guess why dptabloid is no review site any more (assuming it ever was).


A serious review doesn't care about user classifications for the exact understanding that there are no homogeneous user groups with similar full sets of requirements.


Any serious reviewer will incorporate all aspects into the pro's and con's with the same weighting and let the plethora of users have their own personal (and always different) opinions on importance. Any even remotely scientific reviewer will stay away from opinion where possible, since it devalues his output. And most importantly any serious reviewer will use the exact same applicable criteria in pro's and con's consistently to avoid appearing as biased fanboy/hater.

Cherry picking pros and cons and then making generalizations / judgements out of them is what the fanboy/hater types in forums do all the time.
If you are to compare cars - any type of cars - then a serious reviewer will put payload as a pro for the truck and a con for the Porsche, while he'll put Speed as a con for the truck and pro for the Porsche.
Fanboys/haters will ignore the payload thing completely or call it a "gimmick". Unless it is a Volvo truck and they will mention it extra favorably, while dropping acceleration from the list of aspects. The fanboy/hater thing will have a summary where "all pro drivers love the industry leading payload of the Volvo truck". The Porsche will have comments how little payload it can transport and how difficult it is to get in.
11-26-2018, 01:09 AM - 1 Like   #41
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Just visited a photo trade show where I tested a bunch of DLSR and Mirrorless cameras. A Dslr (like my K1 M2) is still the least camera that gets between you and your subject. My first shootings (editorial portraits) proof that the K1 is a highly reliable camera. I barely had to use the menu and can comunicate with my subject.

I just wish I had the new DFA50 1.4. A reliable lens that performs in backlit situations without loosing color information (compared to my F50/1.4) is the perfect profession match for the K-1 IIs color science (stole that term from canon).
11-26-2018, 03:54 AM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
Smarphones have got to a point at where they are more than enough to take most of work if you really dont need to shoot some tele shoots or dont need handheld high ISO or AF tracking. They shine at daytime street photography are good enough for a lot of realestate/architectual/product photography and getting better and better for landscapes. New ones even get 2 camera modules. Only drawback is that the so called "telephoto lens" has smaller image sensor and smaller aperture than the main wide module. Ill probably never get used to that fake bokeh thing.

I hope they fix that drawback sooner than later

ill just add this here 2017 MPA Category Winners & Honorable Mentions - Mobile Photography Awards
I'm not sure about the focus on real estate photography on this thread, but my experience is that good real estate photography these days depends on tripods, wide angles and HDR. A tilt shift lens is ideal if you can afford one. When my wife and I sold a house a couple of years ago, the realtor came out and took photos with his i phone. They weren't very good and I took a bunch with the K-1 and DFA 15-30 which were significantly better and those were a lot better. It is amazing how much more spacious a room look when you take it with an ultra wide.
11-26-2018, 04:05 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
but my experience is that good real estate photography these days depends on tripods, wide angles and HDR
Exactly. All the things a smartphone has. For example my smartphone has about 26mm focal length lens, i have a tripod for it, i can let it process hdr files all by itself or i can bracket raw files on it and pp them myself if i need to.
Of course it could do other types of photography really good (like the ones i posted in the link above). But realestate was just something i get paid for so i was focusing on that.
One can exaggerate space by using an UWA lens but there mostly isnt need to and some of the owners dont like the exaggerated look...

Last edited by Trickortreat; 11-26-2018 at 04:19 AM.
11-26-2018, 07:06 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I don't think they'll ever admit to that and it may not be an explicit policy, in other words, perhaps DPReview staff are really free to publish whatever they feel fit without Amazon influencing anything.
Where DPR get their money from? Who pay them?
11-26-2018, 07:28 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I think they just wanted to say something nice about the K-1ii so they put it into a spot where it would excel, It may not be the best pro camera, lot's of competition there, but based on it's pricing it could be argued it's the best enthusiast camera, just by declaring everything above it to be pro.

A nice gesture, framed by a semantical distinction, as opposed to a real world distinction.
Pricing is the key word, imho. Instead of looking at all the specs, magazines may take a shortcut and decide what is pro and what is enthusiast based on price alone.
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