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10-11-2008, 10:42 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr. The Guy Quote
The new MF will reportedly use a Kodak sensor, the K-M uses a SONY sensor.
That would make the medium format DSLR very expensive, since large CCD sensors are very expensive to make.

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Samsung showed no new DSLRs and is promoting a new mount.
Pentax did not show a new DSLR, just an entry level remake of the K100 with the 10mp Sony sensor. Apparently Samsung was not interested in that camera.

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The recent Pentax Business Product Development Manager interview stated that they would buy the best sensors available not necessarily by Samsung.
That is what Pentax is doing now. Buying sensors from both Samsung and Sony.

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Samsung could have bought Pentax, but Hoya did instead. So, bye, bye Samsung. A Korean/Japanese partnership was never going to work.
Samsung could not have bought Pentax. The old Pentax management sold Pentax to Hoya before Samsung had a chance to bid.

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Samsung intimated that they want to make a FF sensor.
Correct.

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Ya, just what a world economy about to go into a massive recession needs: a big, expensive FF camera.
$3,000 is a lot of money for a FF camera. But medium format costs a lot more than $3,000. If ff is a bad idea for a bad economy, then medium format is even worse.

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A hi-end camera is more about prestige than sales. MF is far more prestigious than FF and Pentax can easily compete against the tiny MF competition.
Prestige does not pay the bills. Mamiya had a prestigious medium format camera and had to sell its camera business.

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The K-M is a brilliant move.
It is what Pentax needs: an entry level model. Pentax shouldn't have discontinued the K100D, its earlier entry level model.

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I bet the price will come down alot. Enough to really affect Samsung's P&S sales.
Don't bet your mortgage on that.

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The new Samsung micro-mount will fail.
That remains to be seen. It may fail, or it may be successful. It depends on the price, size and the competition.

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Just because there's no 'partnership' doesn't mean that Pentax won't use a Samsung sensor in a K20D upgrade, but I bet the price will be way less than when they were 'partners'.
Pentax entered the partnership because Samsung could supply electronic parts at low prices to Pentax. Without the partnership, cost will rise. If prices do not, then profits will fall.

10-12-2008, 02:00 AM   #62
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Anastigmat, the K-m is a new camera. Entry level, yes; it's using the 10MP Sony sensor, ok; but it's still a new design.
Do you know Samsung wanted to buy Pentax? My guess is Samsung never wanted a "chance to bid" - but maybe you know more about this...
And btw, selling to Samsung means the end of the Pentax brand. Not something I'd like to see...
10-12-2008, 05:16 AM   #63
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Japanese company never to be sold to Korean. It's history and national mentality.
Samsung was just partner in the hard times of Pentax.

There are a lot of speculations about Pentax and Samsung, but 99% of it are not true.
10-12-2008, 06:45 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anastigmat Quote
That would make the medium format DSLR very expensive, since large CCD sensors are very expensive to make.
Most Medium Format sensors are CCD, they are better at low Iso.


QuoteOriginally posted by Anastigmat Quote
Pentax did not show a new DSLR, just an entry level remake of the K100 with the 10mp Sony sensor. Apparently Samsung was not interested in that camera.

The K-m is different, even from the K200. Some say even using a new refined and updated 10MP sensor.



QuoteOriginally posted by Anastigmat Quote
Samsung could not have bought Pentax. The old Pentax management sold Pentax to Hoya before Samsung had a chance to bid.
There was discussion whether Hoya was to sell to Samsung


QuoteOriginally posted by Anastigmat Quote
$3,000 is a lot of money for a FF camera. But medium format costs a lot more than $3,000. If ff is a bad idea for a bad economy, then medium format is even worse.
Not if margin is better. Medium format was always the top-end field of Pentax


Last edited by Jonson PL; 10-12-2008 at 06:57 AM.
10-12-2008, 06:57 AM   #65
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Big deal. Just buy sensors from someone else.
10-15-2008, 07:12 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
There is no sign about the partnership being ended.
1. We don't know yet how the mount of the micro APS-C, that Samsung is said to be working on, will turn out.
2. Samsung has said that they will continue with it's GX lineup.
3. Speculation in South Korean magazines said before Photokina that Samsung's new DSLR's were delayed - including their 24x36 camera -, obviously this was true.
4. Samsung never had the intention of buying Pentax. So Hoya did not buy Pentax instead of Samsung, Hoya bought Pentax because they were the only one interrested in buying Pentax.
We don't know if Samsung wanted to buy Pentax or not, but by the time Pentax announced the merger with Hoya, even Pentax's own management was unable to stop the deal. That means even if Samsung had wanted Pentax, it would not have been possible. Samsung can presumably buy the Pentax camera operations from Hoya now, but I think Samsung may want to wait and watch Pentax wallow a little more in red ink and then get it for a lot less money.


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"Pentax’s Sales & Marketing Director of Imaging Systems, Mr. Toshiaki Iue, who recently joined the company in July, has stated that “Pentax’s relationship with Samsung is not perfect – there are some issues”, but went on to say that the two companies would continue their technology partnership for at least the near future. "
Yes, definitely. Samsung is unable to lower prices to increase market share. When the K20D was announced, Samsung announced a lower price for its own version of the camera, but had to raise it to match Pentax's price. K20D sales were disappointing, and the rest is history.

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Pentax and Samsung Partnership Not Perfect - PhotographyBLOG

Do note that the goal of magazines and journalists is to exagerrate the negative parts, to focus on the bad things. Because this sells magazines, this grabs attention. One does not want to read good news, only bad news. It is interresting that they start out with the "bad news" and makes a headline out of it, when the "bad news" only takes up ONE SENTENCE of the article... This is just how journalists works. No matter of small those "bad news" are, they are always more important than good news, no matter how big the good news are.
That is quite true. As they say in good old England, no news is good news. In fact, when you see a news report of a car race, you would most likely see video of a crash, rather than a brilliant passing maneuver. The news folks even mistakenly think that the tens of thousands of people who showed up to watch car racing are there to wait for a crash!

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So, by reading the headline one gets the false assumption that the article is about Pentax - Samsung relationship, but it isn't. The relationship only takes up one sentence in the whole article.

The interresting thing now is that internet community works just like journalists and magazines, and I often wonder if people here are paid journalists because they like to spread rumours and false assumptions about negative things instead of focusing on the good things. Just like journalists for sensation magazines or scandal press.
The on line discussion forums are just like a group that hangs around the water cooler or the coffee machine. They gossip. Sometimes somebody spreads a vicious rumor. But that is no different from most human interactions. So, online forums simply mirror the human condition, rather than being an unpleasant subset of it.

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Samsung only has one sensor, the 14Mp APS-C.
This sensor is a good one, but it won't fit all purposes. For example, it won't do for the digital medium format.
It is not even full frame, but Samsung is saying it is going to go full frame. There are rumors that Pentax does not want to have a full frame DSLR. If true, that could be a source of conflict.

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Because Samsung wish to end the partnership with Pentax? Because Samsung and Pentax are not happy with each other? No, the answer is simply this - beacuse Samsung does not have a medium format sensor!
So that is why Pentax has to go to Kodak. They are forced to it.
And you takes this as a sign of the partnership Samsung - Pentax will end. Good grief!
It remains to be seen whether Pentax can successfully market a 645D with an expensive Kodak CCD sensor. I think Pentax is just testing the market with such a leak. It could be financial suicide to release a medium format digital that costs 5 figures and the economic slow down kills any demand for it.

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Let me tell some shocking news that might surprise you - there is more to cameras than just the sensor. Pentax and Samsung has a partnership in developing DSLR technologies. This can mean anything - sensor, autofocus systems, metering systems, image proessing circuits, memory circuits, D/A converters, whatever.
It does not only mean sensors.
AF, metering etc. are like lipsticks. The sensor is the main attraction.

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And even if Pentax does not use the Samsung APS-C 14Mp sensor for it's medium format camera (why should they?) the medium format camera can still have some co-developed Samsung-Pentax technologies within the body.

Oh, and the 14Mp Samsung did not made it into the K-m because it was too expensive.
Actually it costs the same as the Sony 10mp sensor. The real reason the KM does not have the Samsung sensor is product differentiation.

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It is sad, because the sensor is great, but for the K-m it is important that it sells for as little as possible so the Samsung 14Mp did not cut it.
This has nothing to do with Pentax being unhappy with Samsung, or Samsung being unhappy with Pentax.
You are reading things in-between the lines that aren't there and you have pretty wild speculation.
OTOH, I think you are ignoring the tensions between Samsung and Pentax. As the Pentax exec. himself acknowledged, there are issues between these two partners. It is quite possible that Samsung may buy Pentax, or alternatively it may want to partner with someone else, such as Cosina and build its own DSLR cameras. Cosina builds the manual focus FM10 for Nikon, so it is possible that Samsung can partner with Cosina and build a DSLR with a Nikon mount, in addition to the Pentax mount.
10-15-2008, 07:59 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Not if margin is better. Medium format was always the top-end field of Pentax
Profit margin is good for FF, and also good for medium format. The question is: if people think that a $3,000 FF is too expensive for a bad economy, then how about a $10,000+ price tag for a medium format camera in a bad economy? Most pros shooting medium format are using Hasselblad or an interchangeable back. To woo these pros to a Pentax 645D with a fixed camera back and a new set of lenses, the Pentax 645D must be a very compellng camera. So far, the announced specs for the Pentax 645D put it at the low end. That means most of the potential customers will be amateurs looking for better image quality. In a bad economy, there are very few amateurs who would spend that sort of money on a camera.
10-15-2008, 09:14 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anastigmat Quote
We don't know if Samsung wanted to buy Pentax or not, but by the time Pentax announced the merger with Hoya, even Pentax's own management was unable to stop the deal. That means even if Samsung had wanted Pentax, it would not have been possible. Samsung can presumably buy the Pentax camera operations from Hoya now, but I think Samsung may want to wait and watch Pentax wallow a little more in red ink and then get it for a lot less money.
Study history. Japanese company couldn't be sold to Korean.
The Korean are ethnic minority in Japan. Japanese never like Korean and if we say about money now, we can say only about partnership between Japanese and Korean companies. It's unreal situation if Samsung buys Pentax.

10-15-2008, 10:52 AM   #69
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Anastigmat: "AF, metering etc. are like lipsticks."?
Well, I see a lot of complains about Pentax AF and metering, while few (usually the ones that have a K20D and use it to take photos) are praising the sensor.
Now, as all cameras will provide very good image quality, the difference seems to be made by those "lipsticks".
And no, I don't think Samsung will buy Pentax. I don't think they now have a chance, even if they want to (i.e. Hoya isn't selling).
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