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12-28-2018, 07:56 AM - 1 Like   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Would it be fair to say you like posts that are critical of Pentax then, and don't think points of view supporting Pentax users are relevant? Don't you have someplace else to be?

I'd be interested in seeing one of your posts that actually supports the Pentax community.

For example, you didn't find this one relevant.
DP Review puts K-1 Mark II as second worst camera of 2018 - Page 11 - PentaxForums.com



You like it when people are rude and call names etc. but a simple statement of support for the forum, doesn't get a "like ' from you? Why not?

How is that irrelevant?

What's your real agenda here?

Logic would suggest you are both anti-Pentax and anti-forum. Why else would you "like" such a vitriolic post?

If Pentax just is what it is, doesn't do anything splashy, doesn't make any new technological waves, will you continue to use Pentax product and why? That's the question I've never seen you answer. All you and the folks you "like" seem to do is tell us what Pentax has to do to meet your expectations. To a person happy shooting Pentax, that's what is truly irrelevant.

Post one of your images taken with technologies Pentax has to have , that I couldn't take with my Pentax that is going to make me say "I have to have that." Show us these marvellous technological outcomes all us Pentax users are missing out on. At least then you'd have an ounce of credibility.
Slow down there tiger. Let's not poke to provoke.
If we could keep the discussions civil and mild-mannered, we might be able to happily agree to disagree.
Thanks.

12-28-2018, 08:37 AM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Slow down there tiger. Let's not poke to provoke.
If we could keep the discussions civil and mild-mannered, we might be able to happily agree to disagree.
Thanks.
You mean I should not copy that post and paste it into the thread every time these guys post? Darn, I had my heart set on it.
12-28-2018, 08:38 AM - 2 Likes   #228
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When evaluating cameras and brands, people must be specific and without considering only one use case. DPR ranks cameras with almost nothing to backup their claims, except we know that they are well into 4K video.There are many possible use cases of cameras that one feature cannot make the whole system worthless. Price should also be included: one can't simply compare a Pentax camera to a more expensive one and conclude that the Pentax model is not good. DPR can't universally substitute themselves to every user, we all have different priorities in the way we like or dislike cameras. The vast majority of people buying a camera do it for taking photographs, with video being given for free so why not have it. I've only switched my K1 video lever once to check that it is working when I bought the camera, the lever remained in photo position since then, not because Pentax K1 video is unusable (it is very usable for who wants to use it), but simply because I'm not knowledgeable for mounting movies and I don't have a youtube channel, so why should I be even interested in spending money to acquire a new camera model because its main addition to a Pentax K1 is 4K video recording capability? IMO, the majority of camera users use camera for photography only, so, if you think video is a much have, don't go straight and conclude that Pentax K1 or Pentax K1 II are worse cameras, just make your point saying that must have 4K video so the Pentax K1 II is not suitable for you (not so many can claim that) for video but Pentax K1 II is one of the best full frame camera for the money for everything still photography.
12-28-2018, 08:43 AM - 2 Likes   #229
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In the DPReview Awards video it looks like the original flawed testing images are used when he is talking about the K-1MKII.

It might as well be. There is some serious ego going on when the entire editing staff can not admit they are wrong. The video is proof of that.

12-28-2018, 09:04 AM   #230
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Exactly, I shoot Pentax because it produces top quality stills at the best price. The rest is bells and whistles. I prefer to put money into lenses rather than bodies, as I feel there is more flexibility added with good lenses than what for the most part are frills on more expensive bodies.

I paid for a used 300 2.8 lens and my K-1 what similar systems charge for just the body. There just is no argument there that says if pentax did what everyone else did I'd be getting the same results for the same price. That's the Pentax advantage.

Other people seem more concerned about the advantages of other systems, but, there's room for everyone, and not every company has to do what other companies do. There's room for everyone.

It gets tiring hearing these opinions about there not being a place for Pentax, the way it is for no other reason than "It's my opinion." The solution to that is obvious, sell your Pentax gear, buy what you want, post on their forum. I would point out that a number who went through that process in the end came back to Pentax. Way to often people don't understand if you give up on Pentax, you no longer get to use the things you take for granted that Pentax offers. But they notice when one of their favourite features isn't available on the system they thought was so hot. There are opinions, and there are informed opinions. I see no problem trying to determine which is which.

Winder sold me on A9s for weddings, because he uses them and can explain from a user standpoint the advantages over using his K-1. That kind of informed opinion is always welcome, and if someone ever pays me to shoot another wedding, I might rent one. That's useful information. People reading spec sheets saying "this doesn't have this or that" is not an informed opinion. It doesn't take into account the user experience.

Where the opinion is coming from is essential to understanding the opinion. Otherwise it's just words in a post, with no way to evaluate if it's real world experience or some guy reading a few web pages with no actual real world experience to base his opinion on.

It sure would be nice to be able to filter for real world user experience and filter out unsubstantiated opinion.

Although I have to say, the ignore list is pretty good for that. Guys who stir the pot with unsubstantiated opinion seldom change their stripes. And the guys who share real world experience usually don't become speculators. I just have to quit peeking in on the speculators once i've ignored them. It always leads to trouble.

Last edited by normhead; 12-28-2018 at 09:10 AM.
12-28-2018, 10:06 AM - 3 Likes   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Exactly, I shoot Pentax because it produces top quality stills at the best price. The rest is bells and whistles. I prefer to put money into lenses rather than bodies, as I feel there is more flexibility added with good lenses than what for the most part are frills on more expensive bodies.

I paid for a used 300 2.8 lens and my K-1 what similar systems charge for just the body. There just is no argument there that says if pentax did what everyone else did I'd be getting the same results for the same price. That's the Pentax advantage.

Other people seem more concerned about the advantages of other systems, but, there's room for everyone, and not every company has to do what other companies do. There's room for everyone.

It gets tiring hearing these opinions about there not being a place for Pentax, the way it is for no other reason than "It's my opinion." The solution to that is obvious, sell your Pentax gear, buy what you want, post on their forum. I would point out that a number who went through that process in the end came back to Pentax. Way to often people don't understand if you give up on Pentax, you no longer get to use the things you take for granted that Pentax offers. But they notice when one of their favourite features isn't available on the system they thought was so hot. There are opinions, and there are informed opinions. I see no problem trying to determine which is which.

Winder sold me on A9s for weddings, because he uses them and can explain from a user standpoint the advantages over using his K-1. That kind of informed opinion is always welcome, and if someone ever pays me to shoot another wedding, I might rent one. That's useful information. People reading spec sheets saying "this doesn't have this or that" is not an informed opinion. It doesn't take into account the user experience.

Where the opinion is coming from is essential to understanding the opinion. Otherwise it's just words in a post, with no way to evaluate if it's real world experience or some guy reading a few web pages with no actual real world experience to base his opinion on.

It sure would be nice to be able to filter for real world user experience and filter out unsubstantiated opinion.

Although I have to say, the ignore list is pretty good for that. Guys who stir the pot with unsubstantiated opinion seldom change their stripes. And the guys who share real world experience usually don't become speculators. I just have to quit peeking in on the speculators once i've ignored them. It always leads to trouble.

Unfortunately, calling out specific posters does need to be done at times. The postings from Punk earlier in this thread are a classic example. It was nothing but condescending, dogmatic statements. No actual reasoning, just pretentious statements that were designed to provoke. If there was even a shred of sincerity (and a true desire to help ‘educate’ fellow forum members), I’d expect to see some reasoning, supported by images from said photography equipment – and preferably taken by the person consistently shouting the claims. (And in that case, mocking an entire forum!)

DPR also needs to be regularly called out, due to the following powerful combination.
1. They consistently misrepresent Pentax capabilities. They also consistently ignore important aspects of the system (at least until such features are mimicked by another company),and they often put a negative spin on things that could be viewed as a positive feature (or are at least neutral).
2. They have a very wide audience and sphere of influence. Most of that was gained in earlier years,before they had their current spin and arrangement with Amazon. Unfortunately, a lot of viewers don’t know (or remember) that, and the critical mass is there now.

I’m very glad there are people that keep an eye on these scenarios and call them out when they occur. It certainly does add value for Pentax / Pentaxians and for prospective buyers that are considering various systems, or even just learning about photography. (And I imagine for every 1 very knowledgeable PF member that hits the ‘ignore’ button, there may be 10 other less knowledgeable members or ‘lurkers’ that are potentially being influenced by false statements and vitriol.)
12-28-2018, 11:11 AM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I get your point, but I have the same issue with Sony: I wanted a 36Mpixels full frame camera and unfortunately Sony don't have one, they only have 24Mpixels and 42Mpixels. Sony never have what I want anyway. It happens that when I wanted a 36Mpixels CMOS sensor with long battery life, rugged body and good handle and ergonimic, Ricoh just release that camera. On the day of purchase , the vendor gave be a Sony A7 and a Pentax K1 to try, the Sony felt awkward in the hand, and the Pentax K1 grips and dials fitted my hand so perfectly that I bought it, Pentax did not need to have three awkward camera models like Sony, only one Pentax perfect fit model was enough for me. And if your concern is about the price is too high, the Pentax K1 is cheaper than the 24Mp model of Sony (A7III), that's a problem.
You are right, K1 it's a really nice enjoyable camera, the 36MP sensor IMO is the sweet spot for many shooting styles, and if it works for what you are looking for in a camera based on what you shoot that is great... If we compare it with the Sony models it just feels different, it feels like a well build tank.. for you and for many people that is/was very important.. but the truth is that K1 doesn't fit every work, ofcourse it can do the work, but not with the facilities as others can... people goes where the right tool is, if the K1 is the right tool that is awsome, if is not mmm there comes the troubles.

There is no perfect camera, we all know that, the thing is that if you have choises people can stay within the manufacturer ecosystem without looking somewhere else.. for Pentaxians if the K1 is not a fit there is no other FF within Pentax that you can look for, maybe when the K1ii was release this posibility to choose was in the mind of many users that like the K1 but needed something a little different, and as i see it this is what DPreview disliked about the K1ii, didn't bring nothing new to the table besides some minor changes (that some dont like at all).. and many other manufactures did bring new models with new features that simply put the K1ii as a not relevant release, hopefully this will change in 2019 with new FF models, but that is something that nobody knows for sure, is it going to be a fast 24mp camera.. a totally improved K1.. a higher resolution 42mp+ camera?? 4K? nobody knows..
12-28-2018, 11:19 AM   #233
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BORED, so BORED.

12-28-2018, 11:24 AM - 1 Like   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by Culture Quote
BORED, so BORED.
Time to shoot some images... there's a world out there.
If you own a camera, there's always something you can be doing. Even if it is flowers in the pot on the dining room table or figurines in the basement studio.

If you own a camera, you've always got options.

Me, I gotta go shovel the 60 foot rise over 200 feet I call my driveway, so I can get in and out with my vehicle. I might be procrastinating a little bit.
12-28-2018, 11:29 AM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Time to shoot some images... there's a world out there.
If you own a camera, there's always something you can be doing. Even if it is flowers in the pot on the dining room table or figurines in the basement studio.

If you own a camera, you've always got options.
Just came back an hour ago with beautiful portrait prints of my wife, kids, oh and me. For the living room wall.

I am bored of this thread.
12-28-2018, 12:32 PM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Time to shoot some images... there's a world out there.
That's great advice Norm! That is what I did yesterday night; took the K1, tripod and some vintage glass to have a ton of fun shooting
12-28-2018, 06:38 PM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by Culture Quote
Just came back an hour ago with beautiful portrait prints of my wife, kids, oh and me. For the living room wall.

I am bored of this thread.
If you insist on receiving entertainment here, something should show up within the next month ..... taking a few photos will happen sooner.
12-28-2018, 06:40 PM - 1 Like   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Me, I gotta go shovel the 60 foot rise over 200 feet I call my driveway, so I can get in and out with my vehicle. I might be procrastinating a little bit.
So, go out with your snow-shovel, but take a photo of it in the middle of your driveway .... I'm sure you could do something with that.
12-28-2018, 07:08 PM - 1 Like   #239
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It is one of the best cameras in the market, with excellent price, impossible to be the worst camera of 2018. If we expected more of the second version of Pentax K-1, but categorize it as the worst is not correct. If the K-1 is ranked in DXOMark in 9 place with the slight improvement in the Mark II it is impossible to be the worst camera. For photography of landscapes and the night sky I would say that it is among the best.
12-28-2018, 07:23 PM   #240
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote

Me, I gotta go shovel the 60 foot rise over 200 feet I call my driveway, so I can get in and out with my vehicle. I might be procrastinating a little bit.
We usually get the 60" meaning 6' thing here. I think I would have heard about some place getting snowed in with 60 feet. Thats deep as a 6 story building!
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