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12-29-2018, 02:51 PM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
Just for info.
@stub, thanks for the correction. I had overlooked it in SRS' listings. I amended my previous post.

12-29-2018, 03:04 PM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
I am not trying to put the K1 down. God only knows I own two... Just being realistic that currently the the other dslr manufactures, produced a better offering. But in general The Pentax was accepted because it was at a lower price level.
Understood, but therein lie two key points:

1) "Better" is subjective, based on the choice of measurement criteria

and

2) Cost is one possible (but rather important) criteria

I've no doubt Ricoh could have released a far more impressive camera than the Pentax K-1II if it set a target retail price of US $3,000+. But it didn't... It kept the price low, and the camera accessible to a much wider group of people as a result. If we measure your assessment of "better offering" based on "features and performance vs price", the K-1II comes out rather well.
12-29-2018, 03:17 PM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
@stub, thanks for the correction. I had overlooked it in SRS' listings. I amended my previous post.
No worries Craig.. Looks like im getting nowhere in this conversation....lol
12-29-2018, 03:35 PM - 1 Like   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
Looks like im getting nowhere in this conversation....lol
Personally, I think your points and the conversation are valuable.

I will say, making statements such as "No one has offered up a suggestion of a camera that fairs more miseably than the K1II" possibly doesn't garner much support. "Miserably" is rather a strong term to use towards any current camera, regardless of brand, but using it in a Pentax-specific forum where some members are actually K-1II users?

No-one walks into the Millwall F.C. end of The Den at a home game and says how miserably the team is doing (at least, they wouldn't do it a second time ). I'm sure you catch my drift

12-29-2018, 03:43 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
I am not trying to put the K1 down.
You had me fooled

QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
Sony, now offer a range of lenses, in various sizes and apertures. As do Canon and Nikon. Also the backup of the larger third party manufactureers. Not an option of one lens or legacy glass.. So If Pentax dont offer this, they will find it more and more tough going forward.
So... how many of the new lenses do you own? Saying "an option of one lens", do you even know how many there are?

---------- Post added 30-12-18 at 12:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I will say, making statements such as "No one has offered up a suggestion of a camera that fairs more miseably than the K1II" possibly doesn't garner much support. "Miserably" is rather a strong term to use towards any current camera, regardless of brand, but using it in a Pentax-specific forum where some members are actually K-1II users?
He's not be the first Sony fan doing that.

And I can offer a good suggestion of a camera or more that fairs more miserably than the K-1 II - those Sonys implementing the Star Eater.
12-29-2018, 04:03 PM - 4 Likes   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
He's not be the first Sony fan doing that.

And I can offer a good suggestion of a camera or more that fairs more miserably than the K-1 II - those Sonys implementing the Star Eater.
But, see, though you and I get on well in these forums, I have just as much of a problem with this statement - and not because I'm a Sony fan, but because I'm a Sony user in addition to Pentax.

It's weird... the last three or four posts I've made in various threads this evening have been about picking the right equipment for the user's priorities and use case, regardless of brand...

Pentax's weaknesses exist but they make absolutely no difference to most photographers, little difference to most of the rest, and might genuinely impact - in a consistently negative way - only a tiny proportion of the remaining users. You can replace the brand name "Pentax" in that sentence with any other and it will be equally accurate. What can make the difference - at least, for those who are assessing the product's capabilities for themselves, instead of relying on web reviews - is certain photographers' highly-specific use cases and expectations... but in many real-world situations I'd say this is still limited to a much smaller number of photographers than those who we see complaining about one brand or another.

Sony "star eating" doesn't impact the vast majority of Sony users, just like the K-1II's hardware-wired higher ISO noise reduction doesn't affect the vast majority of Pentax users. Sony's on-sensor AF point glare issues don't affect the majority of Sony users. The speed of the K-1II's buffer clearing or USB port don't affect the majority of users... Honestly, all of this stuff is so inconsequential to most people (even if they don't realise it), it's simultaneously laughable and sad that we argue over it. We read about stuff in reviews and think it might be relevant, but most of us will never encounter the limitations of any of these cameras in a way that we can't work around if required.

I do wish we could all get away from brand wars. It's so unnecessary. I can't think of a single modern camera - Nikon, Canon, Sony, Olympus, FujiFilm, Panasonic, Leica, Pentax or other - that isn't amazingly good, and in most cases capable to levels that the majority of us can't leverage fully.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 12-29-2018 at 04:33 PM.
12-29-2018, 04:07 PM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
This is my last comment....
I'm still waiting to hear what makes you say the Sony A7iii, or is it the Sony A7ii, is easier to use in a wedding setting than the Pentax K-1ii is, and why you are quite sure that carries over to other settings.
12-29-2018, 04:17 PM - 1 Like   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
Im not a beginner. Ive owned Pentax cameras for 45 years. It wasnt my first wedding. Looking at your banner you dont even own a full frame camera. So dont have the same experiences. Or lens frustrations. So your comments are rather rude if you dont mind me saying... So we will stop this conversation now...
You need to be careful about using the word 'rude'; @normhead may need to update his signature, but he owns a K-1 as well as a K-3.

12-29-2018, 04:19 PM - 2 Likes   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm still waiting to hear what makes you say the Sony A7iii, or is it the Sony A7ii, is easier to use in a wedding setting than the Pentax K-1ii is, and why you are quite sure that carries over to other settings.
Okay, now let's slow down and be cordial about our differences. I'm not singling anyone out on this, it's a warning for everyone. Mike has spent some time and energy neutrally responding in kind. We need to be less outraged by others' opinions. Can we be less provocative please?
12-29-2018, 04:22 PM - 1 Like   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
I am not trying to put the K1 down. God only knows I own two... Just being realistic that currently the the other dslr manufactures, produced a better offering.
For a lot more money.
DxO rates the the 645z the #2 camera out of hundreds, and the K-1 #8 out of hundreds.

The simple fact is, others have better offerings is just nonsense. Other manufacturers have produced thousands of cameras that are not Pentax quality. Last time I check even the K-5 was still in the top 50. Your understanding fo Pentax's place in the camera world is so skewed as to be called farce. There i sone camera abetter than the 645z, There are 7 better than the K-1 one of which is the 645z, so 6 made by other manufacturers. Using Dxo metrics those are the facts. The above quote is absolute nonsense.

Yet I don here you saying "Even though Pentax has 2% market share they still have 2 of the top 10. Instead you concentrate on the very small number of offerings that might be in some way marginally better.
12-29-2018, 04:29 PM - 2 Likes   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
For a lot more money.
DxO rates the the 645z the #2 camera out of hundreds, and the K-1 #8 out of hundreds.
Let's not forget the KP and K70 haven't been tested either, both of which would rank incredibly high on the scale.
Also to put into perspective APSC cameras don't even register until number 38, and after all these years the K-5IIs still ranks at 58. Pretty incredible if you ask me.
12-29-2018, 04:30 PM   #297
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Maybe your right Mike.. I've actually stood in the Den at Millwall.. Watching City,, !! Your right it isnt pleasant...lol
My apologies if I have offended anyone..!!

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I've no doubt Ricoh could have released a far more impressive camera than the Pentax K-1II if it set a target retail price of US $3,000+. But it didn't... It kept the price low, and the camera accessible to a much wider group of people as a result. If we measure your assessment of "better offering" based on "features and performance vs price", the K-1II comes out rather well.
In a nutshell. For the low retail price somethings had to be at a reduced level... But then a competitor came along. putting back some of those things. I also apologise for getting the sony model wrong also.. (Its been a long day.. Sony A7rIII https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-ILCE7RM2-Processing-Tiltable-Tru-Finder/dp/B01...s=sony+a7r+iii
Offering better video quality. 42MP. Similar price. half the weight, improved focusing. Improved frame rate. Larger lens options.. Not so sure seeing this. how your point the K1ii fairs so well..? So time for the Pentax technical team to improve some of the items it left out..!!

Last edited by stub; 12-29-2018 at 06:54 PM.
12-29-2018, 04:36 PM   #298
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Mike, I hope you know me well enough to know I have no issue with other brands, or with other brands' users in general.
Respect my choice, I'm surely respecting yours. But you'd better not give me this "fairs miserably" <censored>.

As for Sony's Star Eater, I'll add the stripe issue, and the lossy RAW. Don't forget what I was responding to.

Interesting that you're talking about brand wars... guess who just started one?
12-29-2018, 04:43 PM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
Maybe your right Mike.. I've actually stood in the Den at Millwall.. Watching City,, !! Your right it isnt pleasant...lol
Ha ha Did you go to any of the Millwall-biased pubs before (or worse still, after) the game(s)? That's an eye-opener, and the best laxative a man can wish for. Let's just say, I've always been on my guard

QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
My apologies if I have offended anyone..!!
You haven't. At least, I don't think so. You certainly haven't offended me. I was just pointing out the lay of the land

QuoteOriginally posted by stub Quote
In a nutshell. For the low retail price somethings had to be at a reduced level... But then a competitor came along. putting back some of those things. I also apologise for getting the sony model wrong also.. (Its been a long day.. Sony A7rIII Sony ILCE7M3B Full Frame Mirrorless Compact System: Amazon.co.uk: Camera & Photo

Offering better video quality. 42MP. Similar price. half the weight, improved focusing. Improved frame rate. Larger lens options.. Not so sure seeing this. how your point the K1ii fairs so well..? So time for the Pentax technical team to improve some of the items it left out..!!
The A7 Mk3 has a full frame 24MP sensor (that has the same pixel density - i.e. definition - as a 10MP APS-C camera), yet is priced around the same level (perhaps slightly above) the 36MP K-1II. The A7R Mk3 has a 42MP sensor but costs GBP 2600 based on the current best available price in the UK. All have strengths and weaknesses. What we, as knowledgeable and informed photographers, have to decide is which camera and system works best for us within our available budget

Last edited by BigMackCam; 12-29-2018 at 04:57 PM.
12-29-2018, 04:52 PM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Mike, I hope you know me well enough to know I have no issue with other brands, or with other brands' users in general.
I think I do know you well enough. We've had lots of good and positive interaction in these forums, and I'm sure that will continue

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Respect my choice, I'm surely respecting yours. But you'd better not give me this "fairs miserably" <censored>.

As for Sony's Star Eater, I'll add the stripe issue, and the lossy RAW. Don't forget what I was responding to.

Interesting that you're talking about brand wars... guess who just started one?
I absolutely respect your choice. And I know you respect mine, especially since - for most of my day-to-day shooting - my choice is Pentax gear. But I choose to shoot Sony when it suits me better, and sometimes it does.

In fact, as you well know from other threads and posts, I also shoot a Hasselblad HV. Here's a camera that was the butt of every photography web-site's jokes when it was released two years after the Sony A99 on which it's based and at an eye-watering price several hundred percent higher than the Sony, yet offering nothing more than a better set of clothes and a Hasselblad badge (plus, perhaps, the hand-picked Zeiss 24-70 f/2.8 and really nice waterproof hard case and Italian leather strap ). It shoots Sony's much-maligned "compressed raw" ARW files which result in the (by now) very well known high contrast edge and star-trail artefact issue. And i've even experienced the edge artefact issue myself in several shots. But here's my point... 99.9% of the time, it really doesn't matter. 99.9% of the time, regardless of what are - in the real world - relatively minor issues, I love using that camera and get fantastic photos with it.

As a point of note, lossy raw with Sony has been resolved from the A7 MkII onwards (uncompressed lossless raw is available), so thankfully that's no longer an issue...

I don't believe @stub was trying to start a brand war. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with all of his views - but that's OK. I've already pointed out courteously where I do and don't

Last edited by BigMackCam; 12-29-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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