Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-23-2019, 01:01 AM   #886
Pentaxian
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,068
QuoteOriginally posted by edri Quote
It's not at all a wise choice to buy an APS-C camera and new FF lenses.
Why? Pentax 28-105mm lens seems one of the best lenses in terms of optics and af for the ones that don't have the budget to go for fast lenses. 15-30mm f2.8 lens is very good opticaly. The new 50mm f1.4 lens seems superb and it will be a hard to beat option for portraits on a KP. The weight difference between KP and K1 will go on the new lenses and in the end the weight will be similar.


QuoteOriginally posted by edri Quote
About film era lenses, if Ricoh thinks that 35/2 is still up to date, it means there are still enough lenses from the era to handle today's digital cameras.
There were (maybe they still are) film cameras on the market to buy new. This doesn't mean that is a huge market for them. Same with film era lenses... There is a market for them, but if you want to get the best performance from your camera, you go with modern lenses.

03-23-2019, 02:53 AM   #887
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 19,934
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Why? Pentax 28-105mm lens seems one of the best lenses in terms of optics and af for the ones that don't have the budget to go for fast lenses. 15-30mm f2.8 lens is very good opticaly. The new 50mm f1.4 lens seems superb and it will be a hard to beat option for portraits on a KP. The weight difference between KP and K1 will go on the new lenses and in the end the weight will be similar.




There were (maybe they still are) film cameras on the market to buy new. This doesn't mean that is a huge market for them. Same with film era lenses... There is a market for them, but if you want to get the best performance from your camera, you go with modern lenses.
I suppose you are right, although many "modern" lenses have designs that are pretty ancient. Canon's 50 f1.4 was released in 1993, but it's based on much older lens designs.

Still, I think the thing is to shoot what you can afford and from the Pentax side of things you can often find pretty reasonably priced copies of lenses like the FA 50, DFA 100 macro, and even the FA limiteds. While they many not be the newest lenses out there, they still can give excellent results in the right hands. I think buying nice glass is worthwhile as it really does last through several camera bodies and you won't constantly be thinking about upgrading it, but there is an idea running in this thread that you have to spend a fortune and will need a Sherpa to carry your gear if you go full frame and that isn't quite true.
03-23-2019, 03:07 AM   #888
Pentaxian
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,068
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I suppose you are right, although many "modern" lenses have designs that are pretty ancient. Canon's 50 f1.4 was released in 1993, but it's based on much older lens designs.
Glad you mentioned the 50mm lens because both 50mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.2L are outdated and among the worse lenses. The ones that like the 50mm focal lenght scream all over the internet that they want a new 50mm f1.2L lens. Sadly for them, the lens arrived, but on RF mount.

And why do you think that most Pentaxians screams that af is bad on Pentax cameras? Mostly because they use SDM lenses or Tamron/Sigma lenses. With the new lenses, the Af is faster and the 28-105mm lens is one example in this regard.
03-23-2019, 03:12 AM   #889
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 19,934
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Glad you mentioned the 50mm lens because both 50mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.2L are outdated and among the worse lenses. The ones that like the 50mm focal lenght scream all over the internet that they want a new 50mm f1.2L lens. Sadly for them, the lens arrived, but on RF mount.

And why do you think that most Pentaxians screams that af is bad on Pentax cameras? Mostly because they use SDM lenses or Tamron/Sigma lenses. With the new lenses, the Af is faster and the 28-105mm lens is one example in this regard.
I don't disagree. But you have to shoot with what you can afford and if you want full frame, you may have to compromise a bit on glass, at least initially, while you save for some nicer lenses. You can still get pretty nice results.

Certainly the 28-105 is a very nice lens that won't break the bank.

03-23-2019, 05:15 AM   #890
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,882
QuoteOriginally posted by revelstoked Quote
Marginally better/worse image quality depending on the situation, and some software updates that most likely could run on the k1. That is pretty soft for even an incremental change. I am not by any means saying that this is a bad camera. It is just pretty much the same great camera it was 2 years ago.
Repeating a falsehood does not magically turn it into truth.


You don't seem to understand that there are significant hardware changes between the two cameras.

Last edited by reh321; 03-23-2019 at 05:24 AM.
03-23-2019, 05:22 AM   #891
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,882
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Glad you mentioned the 50mm lens because both 50mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.2L are outdated and among the worse lenses. The ones that like the 50mm focal lenght scream all over the internet that they want a new 50mm f1.2L lens. Sadly for them, the lens arrived, but on RF mount.

And why do you think that most Pentaxians screams that af is bad on Pentax cameras? Mostly because they use SDM lenses or Tamron/Sigma lenses. With the new lenses, the Af is faster and the 28-105mm lens is one example in this regard.
It turns out that even "bad" EF-mount lenses aren't that terrible; everyone seems to want perfection at low cost these days.
03-23-2019, 06:04 AM   #892
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 33,043
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
There were (maybe they still are) film cameras on the market to buy new. This doesn't mean that is a huge market for them. Same with film era lenses... There is a market for them, but if you want to get the best performance from your camera, you go with modern lenses.
And yet... in this poll the "modern lens" didn't even get 30% of the vote. More people preferred something else by a margin of 2:1.
35mm find that prime. - PentaxForums.com
03-23-2019, 06:16 AM   #893
Pentaxian
c.a.m's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,733
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
And why do you think that most Pentaxians screams that af is bad on Pentax cameras? Mostly because they use SDM lenses or Tamron/Sigma lenses. With the new lenses, the Af is faster and the 28-105mm lens is one example in this regard.
Dan, I think you've had experience with Pentax and Canon, and perhaps other brands, so you are in a good position to be able to speak about the relative AF performance of Pentax.

I think I understand what you're saying but I might be mis-interpreting. In my opinion, I think you may be exaggerating the view that "most Pentaxians" are critical of Pentax AF and that it is the SDM lenses and 3rd party lenses that are to blame. Maybe you meant that those people who are critical of Pentax AF are mainly using those lenses.

In any case, as discussed in several other current threads on PF, it seems that there are few well-founded assessments, very few credible tests, but a lot of assumptions and generalizations. I think that many folks and some of the DPR reviewers may have fallen prey to a common, repeated opinion that Pentax AF is bad, even if they have never used a Pentax DSLR.

It seems that Pentax AF capability has not been terrible, and the modern Pentax gear - as you suggest - performs even better. Indeed, there are plenty of real-life examples that show excellent AF performance in many circumstances.

- Craig


Last edited by c.a.m; 03-23-2019 at 06:31 AM.
03-23-2019, 06:36 AM   #894
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,882
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
There were (maybe they still are) film cameras on the market to buy new. This doesn't mean that is a huge market for them. Same with film era lenses... There is a market for them, but if you want to get the best performance from your camera, you go with modern lenses.
As usual, we are back to talking "best"; exactly what that means depends on which era you are talking about. Whether it means anything depends on what your other equipment is and what you are pointing it at and with what intention. Several years ago, I mounted a Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7 lens on my K-30; this lens was originally kitted with the Super Program I purchased in 1983. I was surprised to see that the K-30 was giving me photos visibly sharper than I had ever gotten with Kodachrome 25 in my Super Program - even 16mp digital is that much better than the best of color slide technology. Today, I could purchase the "Fat Fifty" and mount it on my KP; I don't know exactly how it would compare to the Takumar 50mm f/1.4 or the Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7 on that camera - but why would I do that? In general, 50mm is an awkward focal length for me on that camera, and I really doubt I would notice the subtle difference between those lenses unless I intentionally took one photo of the same scene with each one and then studiously compared them. Even if someone gave me a K-1 or a K-1ii, I doubt if I would purchase a "Fat Fifty"; $1000 is a lot of money to me, especially since I already have an uncounted number of lenses that can do 50mm, and I don't pixel peek. "Best" is for a fairly limited number of perfectionist artists.
03-23-2019, 06:44 AM - 1 Like   #895
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,882
QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
Dan, I think you've had experience with Pentax and Canon, and perhaps other brands, so you are in a good position to be able to speak about the relative AF performance of Pentax.

I think I understand what you're saying but I might be mis-interpreting. In my opinion, I think you may be exaggerating the view that "most Pentaxians" are critical of Pentax AF and that it is the SDM lenses and 3rd party lenses that are to blame. Maybe you meant that those people who are critical of Pentax AF are mainly using those lenses.

In any case, as discussed in several other current threads on PF, it seems that there are few well-founded assessments, very few credible tests, but a lot of assumptions and generalizations. I think that many folks and some of the DPR reviewers may have fallen prey to a common, repeated opinion that Pentax AF is bad, even if they have never used a Pentax DSLR.

It seems that Pentax AF capability has not been terrible, and the modern Pentax gear - as you suggest - performs even better. Indeed, there are plenty of real-life examples that show excellent AF performance in many circumstances.

- Craig
In 1995 I switched from Pentax to Canon because the Canon EF/USM system was so clearly superior in my eyes {and ears} to what Pentax was offering at the time. In 2015 I came back to Pentax because I had several unfortunate experiences with Canon Rebel bodies. Thus, I have no experience with recent and higher-cost Canon equipment, but the DA 18-135mm DC or the DA 55-300mm PLM lens mounted on my KP gives me performance indistinguishable to my eyes {and ears} from the comparably priced Canon equipment I left behind in 2015.
03-23-2019, 07:19 AM   #896
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 904
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
As usual, we are back to talking "best"; exactly what that means depends on which era you are talking about. Whether it means anything depends on what your other equipment is and what you are pointing it at and with what intention. Several years ago, I mounted a Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7 lens on my K-30; this lens was originally kitted with the Super Program I purchased in 1983. I was surprised to see that the K-30 was giving me photos visibly sharper than I had ever gotten with Kodachrome 25 in my Super Program - even 16mp digital is that much better than the best of color slide technology. Today, I could purchase the "Fat Fifty" and mount it on my KP; I don't know exactly how it would compare to the Takumar 50mm f/1.4 or the Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7 on that camera - but why would I do that? In general, 50mm is an awkward focal length for me on that camera, and I really doubt I would notice the subtle difference between those lenses unless I intentionally took one photo of the same scene with each one and then studiously compared them. Even if someone gave me a K-1 or a K-1ii, I doubt if I would purchase a "Fat Fifty"; $1000 is a lot of money to me, especially since I already have an uncounted number of lenses that can do 50mm, and I don't pixel peek. "Best" is for a fairly limited number of perfectionist artists.
I have an Auto Chinon 50mm f/1.9 that I bought off eBay for less than $20. I did a single in October with that lens and I'd bet that in many cases you'd have to look pretty closely, zoomed in, to see significant differences between that and the Fat Fifty. Sure, if you zoom in on the corner of the frame and look for high contrast areas with backlit trees... yes, you could immediately tell. Wide open, yea, not the same. But I think most of the time you'd have to do some investigative pixel peeping to know for sure which lens the photo was taken with.
03-23-2019, 11:41 AM - 1 Like   #897
Pentaxian
swanlefitte's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: New Orleans
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,238
Lenses don't change that much for a reason.
From Lens Rentals | Blog
"Knowing the ancestry of a lens can be interesting from a historical standpoint. For example, I know that the $400 Canon 50mm f/1.4 lens I shot with this weekend is the same basic design as an $8,000 Cook Panchro 50mm Cine lens. Itís also interesting technically: that Canon 50mm f/1.4 inherits the same basic design as the Canon 50mm f/1.2, Sigma 50mm f/1.4, Nikon 50mm f/1.4 G, and Voigtlander 50mm f/1.1, among others. That explains why they all have a natural tendency toward a bit of astigmatism and spherical aberration in the edges."
03-23-2019, 03:03 PM   #898
Pentaxian
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,068
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And yet... in this poll the "modern lens" didn't even get 30% of the vote. More people preferred something else by a margin of 2:1.
35mm find that prime. - PentaxForums.com
Yes, they don't. But again, if you want performance, you pay for it. If you are a casual shooter with average budget, then you deal with what you have without knowing what you can get with better lenses. I use most of the times the Canon 85mm f1.8 lens when I go out shooting for fun because it's light, but when I have a paid job, I really love a lot more what I get with the other 85mm lens, the f1.4L one.

The same difference in files is when I use Tamron 150-600mm G2 lens for wildlife vs. 300mm f2.8 and 2x TC. The colors, the af and the bokeh from the 300mm f2.8 is way better than what I get from Tamron lens on the same body. So, I shoot with the Tamron lens most of the time because it's light. But when I know that I want the best results, the Tamron lens is out and I rent the 300mm f2.8L lens.

---------- Post added 03-23-19 at 10:18 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
I think I understand what you're saying but I might be mis-interpreting. In my opinion, I think you may be exaggerating the view that "most Pentaxians" are critical of Pentax AF and that it is the SDM lenses and 3rd party lenses that are to blame. Maybe you meant that those people who are critical of Pentax AF are mainly using those lenses.
Yes, you are correct. I reffered at those people that want the best results in terms of af but they don't invest in lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
In any case, as discussed in several other current threads on PF, it seems that there are few well-founded assessments, very few credible tests, but a lot of assumptions and generalizations. I think that many folks and some of the DPR reviewers may have fallen prey to a common, repeated opinion that Pentax AF is bad, even if they have never used a Pentax DSLR.
It's the same with every brand. Sony fans say that the af from Canon and Nikon is average compared to Sony, Nikon fans say that Canon cameras are the worst in the market and so on. That's why I test the cameras that I'm interested in and I don't put too much effort in watching internet reviews.

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
It seems that Pentax AF capability has not been terrible, and the modern Pentax gear - as you suggest - performs even better. Indeed, there are plenty of real-life examples that show excellent AF performance in many circumstances.

- Craig
If someone will stole my gear and someone else will give me a K1 with Pentax 15-30mm f2.8 lens and a Pentax 150-450mm, I would be very happy with this combo and I will learn again to adjust my shooting style as I did when I had K-5 II, K-3 II or 6D. The only lens that I really want and still hasn't come is Pentax 85mm f1.4 lens. This will keep me in the position to either go with the 50mm f1.4 lens despite the fact that I don't like this focal lenght or go with a cheap lens in this focal range until the 85mm f1.4 lens will become available.

---------- Post added 03-23-19 at 10:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
It turns out that even "bad" EF-mount lenses aren't that terrible; everyone seems to want perfection at low cost these days.
Why buy a Pro body if you want to put cheap or old lenses on it? As I said and I repeat myself, I rather buy a KP instead of K1 II and with the difference I will buy the 50mm f1.4 lens and I will have a very good combo for portraits. But this is what I would do. You or others may go with what suits you.

---------- Post added 03-23-19 at 10:31 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I have an Auto Chinon 50mm f/1.9 that I bought off eBay for less than $20. I did a single in October with that lens and I'd bet that in many cases you'd have to look pretty closely, zoomed in, to see significant differences between that and the Fat Fifty. Sure, if you zoom in on the corner of the frame and look for high contrast areas with backlit trees... yes, you could immediately tell. Wide open, yea, not the same. But I think most of the time you'd have to do some investigative pixel peeping to know for sure which lens the photo was taken with.
Sorry, I shoot completly different things than the one from the link you provided. I shoot portraits at wide apertures in backlit situation, I shoot models on streets at wide apertures coming at me, I shoot corporate portraits. I rather use a modern lens for this due to coating, af, rendering.

---------- Post added 03-23-19 at 10:34 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
Lenses don't change that much for a reason.
From Lens Rentals | Blog
"Knowing the ancestry of a lens can be interesting from a historical standpoint. For example, I know that the $400 Canon 50mm f/1.4 lens I shot with this weekend is the same basic design as an $8,000 Cook Panchro 50mm Cine lens. Itís also interesting technically: that Canon 50mm f/1.4 inherits the same basic design as the Canon 50mm f/1.2, Sigma 50mm f/1.4, Nikon 50mm f/1.4 G, and Voigtlander 50mm f/1.1, among others. That explains why they all have a natural tendency toward a bit of astigmatism and spherical aberration in the edges."
The difference between Canon 50mm f1.4 lens, Canon 50mm f1.2L lens and the new 50mm f1.2L lens for Canon mirrorless is visible even for beginners.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 03-23-2019 at 03:43 PM.
03-31-2019, 04:12 PM - 1 Like   #899
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Virginia, USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 618
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
By all accounts, the K-1 was a success for Ricoh. The K-1II, as an upgrade model, anecdotally less so. I believe the same could be said about the K-3 and K-3II respectively. It's understandable that an upgraded version of the same camera isn't going experience the same spike of demand as the original, yet it makes sense from the manufacturer's point of view, as it's a relatively inexpensive way to extend the life of the original product and gain additional return on the original development cost.

When Ricoh releases its next "all new" (rather than "upgrade") Pentax camera - be it APS-C, full-frame or medium format - I'd expect that to sell well in the same way the original K-1 did.



Yes, the K-1II has "Dynamic Pixel-Shift" which is intended for hand-held use. It's not actually the same thing as real pixel-shift, but instead captures multiple frames that rely on the natural small movements of the photographer to result in several very slightly different perspectives. Those images are then combined into one very high resolution image. It's basically an in-camera implementation of a method people have used for some time to produce super-resolution photos.
Well said, Mike.
Terry
03-31-2019, 09:34 PM - 1 Like   #900
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,481
DPR review cameras from the point of view of the mainstream camera owner, for what trigger the most camera sales on amazon. That means, cameras designed to have uncommon features aren't favorably graded by DPR.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 03-31-2019 at 10:17 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
2018, 4k, autofocus, camera, dp review, dpr, dpreview, feature, firmware, hand, ibis, k-1 ii, k-1 mark ii, mirror, noise, pentax news, pentax rumors, reduction, review, review puts k-1, reviewers, reviews, sound, subjects, switch, track, tv, youtube
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best and worst of 2018 surfar Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 5 12-11-2018 05:35 PM
Mark I vs Mark II ISO Comparison Plus Files SirTomster Pentax K-1 64 07-31-2018 01:06 PM
K-3 upgrade to "Mark I" or Mark II neal_grillot Pentax K-1 20 06-01-2018 02:25 AM
DP Review's review of the K-r is up.... ccd333 Pentax K-r 67 03-20-2011 09:41 AM
DP Review modifies K2000 Review jeffkrol Pentax News and Rumors 8 02-05-2009 07:44 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:08 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top