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12-23-2018, 04:11 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
X-T3 brought significant improvement over X-T2 (took them 2 years).

A7III is a signifcant improvement over A7II (took 2 years).

That doesn't mean that those cameras are without issues.
And neither are perfect but overall concensus of opinion among the reviewers, is that these 2 are the top offerings for 2018.

I'm waiting for 2019 brings though.

12-23-2018, 04:41 PM - 2 Likes   #62
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Well, I'm glad they still see Pentax as being a bit so so.... otherwise I would have to switch systems.
12-23-2018, 04:54 PM - 4 Likes   #63
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Given the luke warm response to the noise reduction and the Dynamic pixel shift by users then the rating is arguably legitimate.
But what I object to is the "spin" involved.
They have managed to put the word "worst" beside a camera that still is a peer to the latest and greatest that Nikon can offer and not only that but half the price.
All people will see is "worst" and "Pentax".
12-23-2018, 05:36 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
Given the luke warm response to the noise reduction and the Dynamic pixel shift by users then the rating is arguably legitimate.
But what I object to is the "spin" involved.
They have managed to put the word "worst" beside a camera that still is a peer to the latest and greatest that Nikon can offer and not only that but half the price.
All people will see is "worst" and "Pentax".
The truth is that any of these cameras would be fine choices. And as tools, it's impossible to say what's "best" without reference to their intended use, not just in the abstract. Is the K-1ii the best for someone shooting video? no, not even in the running. Is it the best for maybe macro, Astro, and static image (pixel shift)? Arguably yes.

If I had to pick one standout (note, not "best") I'd probably say the Sony because it rocked the industry for value for a full framed mirrorless (I think the Pentax is a comparable value, but again, depends on what you need, and that was more true with the K-1i).

12-23-2018, 06:05 PM - 5 Likes   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
X-T3 brought significant improvement over X-T2 (took them 2 years).

A7III is a signifcant improvement over A7II (took 2 years).

That doesn't mean that those cameras are without issues.

However, is Pentax K-1 II a comparable improvement over K-1 (also after 2 years)?
Whether those Sony and Fuji upgrades are in fact really significant would itself be a point of debate. If you made 50 inch prints from the Sony A7ii and the Sony A7iii, would anyone be able to tell the difference? Would anyone be able to tell the difference between the two Fuji cameras in terms of visual perception of large prints? In that case, what makes these upgrades all that significant? Better tracking AF? How many people using these systems need better tracking AF? These systems are missing many of the lenses most needed in high-end action photography. Besides, outside of professional photographers, not many people are photographing things that move fast (partly because most photographers can't afford the lenses required for such photography). So in a sense, these cameras, to the extent that they constitute a "significant" upgrade, merely provide improvements in features that the majority of serious photographers don't need and never will use.

Now you could say that the K-1ii constitutes even less of an upgrade — so much so that Pentax really shouldn't have bothered with it. You can make the same argument against some of the other "minor" upgrades that Pentax has indulged in over the years. But I'm inclined to blame consumers for these upgrades. As consumers, we have false expectations about the steady improvement of technology. There's a tendency to think that, because technology is "always getting better," any camera older than three years is too old and a disgrace to have on the market. But the view that technology is always getting better is a romantic myth propagated by people worship technology as if it's some kind of religion, the holy of holies. But the fact is, the one aspect of camera performance that's important to all users (rather than to just specialist users) is sensor performance, and there's been no significant development in sensor performance in at least eight or nine years. The FF camera which gets the highest ISO score over at DXOmark is the A7iii. The camera with the best ISO score in 2009 (almost ten years ago) is the Nikon D3s. There is about a 14% difference in the ISO score of the D3s and the A7iii. DXOmark claims that any difference in ISO scores under 25% is insignificant. So essentially over the last ten years, we have seen no significant improvement in ISO performance in the top performing cameras. That's something to think about, especially for those who believe we're somehow owed as our birthright a significantly improved camera every three years. That's a false ideal that's been leading the more tech-minded photographers astray for far too long.

Now is it possible that Pentax's accelerator unit has enabled a "significant" improvement in ISO performance (or at least something better than anything else that's come along in quite some time). I'll let others endlessly quibble over that one. All I will note is that dxomark has sedulously avoided testing any of the Pentax cameras (there are now three of them) using this technology.
12-23-2018, 07:15 PM - 2 Likes   #66
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Providing DPR with clicks will merely prolong their miserable existence. The only list mentioning Pentax and DPR I care about is the one that says DPR is the weakest source of information on Pentax cameras. I find it hard to believe real Pentax users even go there. There must be something masochistic about them.

K-1 II, declared best in class - PentaxForums.com


Camera of Distinction, Best Professional Camera - Pentax K-1 Mark II
Imaging Resource Camera of the Year 2018: Best Overall & Professional Cameras

You can find so much better.
Seriously, stop torturing yourself promoting this drivel.
12-23-2018, 11:22 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I believe the term to which you refer is Othering.
Yes, it was. Thanks!

12-24-2018, 01:20 AM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by 08amczb Quote
I and got worst where the K-1 was the king: IQ. .
IQ of K-1II is better than K-1.
12-24-2018, 03:08 AM - 3 Likes   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
However, is Pentax K-1 II a comparable improvement over K-1 (also after 2 years)?
For stills, if you compare images from the XT-3 to the XT-2, it is not possible to see a difference, even less difference than between the K1 and K1 II.
When people say, the XT-3 is some much better, it has to translate into reality when using it, not just reading higher numbers in a spreadsheet.
Does it means the XT-2 is the worst camera? Well, I like other people to believe the XT-2 is junk and I'll be glad to pick-on up second hand for 400 euros, while other guys are going to spend 1500 euros on the XT-3 because they think it's better.

I've just watch a video that show Nikon Z6 AF missing a static target (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHY1SprPVBY: look from 12:00 onwards) , multiple times, something that I have never experienced with the K1. So how is it possible that DPR put the Nikon Z6 as preferred camera and K1 II as the worst camera? IMO, if DPR rates cameras based on commercial goals, it is very miss-leading for customers.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 12-24-2018 at 03:20 AM.
12-24-2018, 03:45 AM - 5 Likes   #70
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dpreview likes trolling Pentaxians
12-24-2018, 05:53 AM   #71
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Recognition is important these days.
DPR is really hitting on almost anything recently - maybe this is their idea of independence. For the educated reader K1ii is just fine.
12-24-2018, 06:30 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
dpreview likes trolling Pentaxians
Trolling Pentaxians gets them thousands of clicks.
12-24-2018, 07:20 AM - 14 Likes   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The only list mentioning Pentax and DPR I care about is the one that says DPR is the weakest source of information on Pentax cameras
Ask and ye shall receive.

Top Ten Least Accurate Sources of information about Pentax Cameras.

Looking for the most innaccurate information on Pentax cameras but aren't sure who to trust the least (err.. most?), look no furthur! Here's our 10 go-to sources of rage inducing (mis)information. Not for the faint of heart, we suggest you hook up a blood pressure monitor, start at 10 and work your way down the list. Consult a medical professional before proceeding past our number 6. Medically approved sedatives are recommended for your first foray into items 5 and 2, and 1, just to take the edge off. We are not responsible for broken keyboards or computer monitors.

10. The back of a Cheerios box. Actually pretty good and never has innaccurate information about Pentax, just here to round out the list to 10.

9. Zoltar, the coin operated fortune teller. His Pentax information is rarely wrong, but earns a spot for unparalleled vagueness.

8. Pentax.ca, great for information about Sony cameras. Pentax, not so much.

7. 867-5309, aka "Jenny", easily my favourite telephone hotline, just not for Pentax inquiries.

6. Your cousin Tim, who owns cameras from like 5 different brands and 8 different lens mounts (4 are mirrorless, which Tim says are the future) and takes photos of cats that are just adorbs.

5. Ken Rockwell, for that one time he wrote a 'paper review' based on the specs of the *istD and made it look like an 'in hand' legitimate review.

4. Amateur Photographers (UK), for having predicted the end of Pentax.

3. Anyone who declared PentaxIsDoomed and loudly RageSold all their Pentax gear..

2. DPReview's official staff reviews. Because bicycles.

1. DPReview's YouTubeChannel, because I'm pandering to the locals.
12-24-2018, 07:54 AM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by EssJayEff Quote
They mainly disliked the baked-in noise reduction for RAW files, which is the exact reason I didn't pay for the upgrade.
...and the same reason I bought a new K1 two weeks ago instead of the K1ii...
12-24-2018, 07:56 AM - 2 Likes   #75
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Thanks for the list BrianR. I know it was a tough job, but someone had to do it.
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