[kooks]

I would not say that is the 2nd worst... but IMO the K1ii was just a "meehh" camera, nothing special and a release that as i see it hurt the image of Pentax and pushed some people away from the brand..

[Larrymc]

I would not say that is the 2nd worst... but IMO the K1ii was just a "meehh" camera, nothing special and a release that as i see it hurt the image of Pentax and pushed some people away from the brand..

Just wondering, did you say the same about the K-5, 5II and 5IIs and the K-3 and K-3II? If not why not?

[repaap]

I think that should be your next fine art shoot, MJKoski - dead tree, skeletal cat, but at minus thirty degrees.

There are not many photographers who are as dedicated as you, got to give credit!

I think that ’this’ has been done already. I kind a also agree. if there willnot come 50 K signatures that we want change,it kind a says that folk is happy, and no problem.

that said, I’d rather have new model, when it is ready. not mk3 or 4...

[tromboads]

It's a little concerning a lot here seem so insecure and defensive. Especially in something as frivolous as if your camera is "liked" by some entertainer (they are on youtube right?)

Rest easy everyone, Just, make, pictures

[normhead]

It's a little concerning a lot here seem so insecure and defensive. Especially in something as frivolous as if your camera is "liked" by some entertainer (they are on youtube right?)

Rest easy everyone, Just, make, pictures

No need to start calling names, like insecure or defensive. You're imagining intensity that isn't there. The site that shall not be named is a joke. No one takes it seriously.

But it is concerning that you think we are taking this seriously. Any damage the site that shall not be named could have done, was done a long time ago. Now it's just same old same old.

Sometimes we talk serious issues. Sometimes we just kill time.

[Kunzite]

It's a little concerning a lot here seem so insecure and defensive. Especially in something as frivolous as if your camera is "liked" by some entertainer (they are on youtube right?)

It's a little concerning that you felt the need to name calling.
It's a little concerning that you are disturbed by the defense, and not at all by the attacks which are the root cause.

[tromboads]

The attacks?

Because an entertainer doesn't like your camera?

Is this even what we are talking about anymore.

[normhead]

The attacks?

Because an entertainer doesn't like your camera?

Is this even what we are talking about anymore.

Of course not. We are talking about whatever you think is important to talk about. We are just pretending to talk about those other guys.

[Class A]

Just wondering, did you say the same about the K-5, 5II and 5IIs and the K-3 and K-3II? If not why not?

I'm not kooks, but I'd like to point out that the difference between the K-5 and the K-5 II was significant.

The K-5 II introduced a completely new AF system that, at last, was immune to the colour temperature of the subject. The K-5 (and other Pentax DSLRs before it) would systemically produce out of focus images under certain conditions (low light, warm colour temperature). I'd therefore say that the K-5 II was all but an insignificant incremental update.

The K-3 II added GPS which is quite important for some. IIRC, it also offered improved image stabilisation.
It lost the on-board pop-up flash which was a good decision in my view because such a poor flash (that cannot even control other flashes in HSS mode) has no business on a camera in this class (a decision that has been taken by many other manufacturers on their high-end models as well).

While I also found the improvements made to the K-1 II underwhelming, the K-1 II as such is a great camera. In principle I prefer keeping a well-designed body and other aspects instead of changing things around for change's sake. I feel there is nothing wrong with a "tick-tock" model where the "tock" release is just a minor modification to the "tick" release. Of course some review sites feel that they are making a contribution by pointing out the lack of innovation, but that need not concern anyone.

The major issue with the K-1 II was just that it forced mandatory RAW noise reduction on everyone.
Had they just applied the processing to the JPGs, that would have been fine.
Had they given users the option to opt out of the RAW denoising, that would have been fine.
Unfortunately, however, the mandatory processing meant that they gave DPReview a pistol and said "shoot me".
We can be pretty certain that DPReview would have found other ways to talk down the K-1 II and talk up their beloved EVF darlings, but it is better if they have to go through more contortions to do it. Handing them the ammunition on a silver plate is not a good idea.

P.S.: On the subject of ignoring DPReview, I wish it were that easy. If we were talking about a private blogger with a hundred followers, we could safely ignore them.
DPReview on the other hand, has ~20,000,000 views per month.
What they write matters regarding camera and lens sales.
With their reviews and buying guides, they influence a considerable number of buyers.

I truly wish I could just ignore DPReview but I feel that we should keep revealing the flaws in their reviews and alert others to the sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle bias against Pentax.

[biz-engineer]

While I also found the improvements made to the K-1 II underwhelming

Ricoh should have removed the IBIS from the K1, and add IBIS to the K1 II, then you would think the K1 II is great, the same way Fuji users who praise the XH1 for having IBIS.
People say: "Oh, IBIS is so good, it's innovation, Fuji have added IBIS to XH1, Nikon Z has IBIS innovation, Canon EOS R what? no IBIS, c'mon Canon"and "Pentax what? what is Pentax?"

---------- Post added 26-12-18 at 07:43 ----------

What they write matters regarding camera and lens sales.

Yes, what reviewers say translates into revenues for amazon, BHP, adorama etc. If they say "Best still camera of the year: Pentax K1 II" will translate into 1000 (take this number as an example) sales on amazon.
If they say "Canon EOS R is the best camera of 2018", will translate into 200 000 sales on amazon. If they say "Nikon Z is the best camera of 2018", will translate into 100 000 sales on amazon.

So, clearly, the reviews are a mix of what the camera really is and how much sales potential it can achieve on amazon.
The reviews are mixed with subjective bias, because it is the subjective bias that allow room for bending evaluations toward the larger customers base.

[Ash]

Let's keep the discussion less emotive/personal to save it from degenerating. It's important to note that particularly with new products retaining their predecessor's model number (K-5 II, K-3 II, K-1 II), the incremental changes were made to keep up with technological advances in the field, so as not to lose sales waiting for the next upgraded model. It's no small feat developing a new camera, so Ricoh does need to keep some momentum in between each model.

There is going to be critique and criticism of each product, and the subjective nature of this weighs in differently with different photographers. So the other forum will assess the K-1 II less favourably, whilst a number of people and magazines think of it more highly. It is what it is in this world of opinion. The K-1 II review on this forum does the pixel peeping for us compared to the K-1. Whether the in-camera NR of the K-3 II makes a significant difference to a low-light photographer in reality may be overemphasised.

[NZ_Ross]

What I find interesting about Pentax users are that a reasonable percentage are engineers or other STEM professionals of some or other description. As a civil engineer I fit into that description. The Pentax brand, and the brand values and cameras appeal to people who like well engineered, good value, backwards compatible tools that are rugged, survivable, and generally photographers cameras.

Other people like different brand values, and this is reflected in products promoted by different sites and forums. Go them

Personally, I used to have HP RPN calculators like the 11C - they were very sturdy and very well engineered. I generally use Apple products now for the same reason, and I enjoy my Pentax gear again for the same sort of reasons. I still use calculator apps in RPN .

My view is that everyone has a different decision matrix for cameras, and different sites and forums cater those differences.

For Pentax users, this Forum provides excellent articles, information, reviews and opinion. Despite what you may or may not think of offical Ricoh support, this Forum is an 'ace' or 'jewel' when it comes to Pentax information and support. That in itself speaks volumes about the value of the product and the value of the wider Pentax eco-system.

[Jyrkira]

I'm not kooks, but I'd like to point out that the difference between the K-5 and the K-5 II was significant.

The K-5 II introduced a completely new AF system that, at last, was immune to the colour temperature of the subject. The K-5 (and other Pentax DSLRs before it) would systemically produce out of focus images under certain conditions (low light, warm colour temperature). I'd therefore say that the K-5 II was all but an insignificant incremental update. .

I agree. Huge improvement to AF accuracy and improved image quality (K-5 IIs). To me it was bigger improvement from K-5 than K-3 was from K-5 IIs.

[Merv-O]

Let's keep the discussion less emotive/personal to save it from degenerating. It's important to note that particularly with new products retaining their predecessor's model number (K-5 II, K-3 II, K-1 II), the incremental changes were made to keep up with technological advances in the field, so as not to lose sales waiting for the next upgraded model. It's no small feat developing a new camera, so Ricoh does need to keep some momentum in between each model.

There is going to be critique and criticism of each product, and the subjective nature of this weighs in differently with different photographers. So the other forum will assess the K-1 II less favourably, whilst a number of people and magazines think of it more highly. It is what it is in this world of opinion. The K-1 II review on this forum does the pixel peeping for us compared to the K-1. Whether the in-camera NR of the K-3 II makes a significant difference to a low-light photographer in reality may be overemphasised.

Please all remember that Amazon owns DP and uses it as a marketing tool (ever notice the links to purchase certain paid "ad" cameras in the margins?). Amazon sells a ton of CanIkonOny camera systems and Pentax, is simply not on the mass market radar....half the reviews you see on line are paid crapola....please remember that. DP routinely denigrates Pentax--too slow, too heavy, etc. while ignoring build integrity, quality and RICOH's commitment to firmware updates and backwards lens compatibility. In the 21st Century, a camera body is nothing more than a "lens computer"---Pentax has the best backward compatibility of its lenses in the entire industry. DP IS rubbish....

[Kunzite]

The attacks?

Sure thing, if you talk about defense (defensive); as defense by definition is protecting against an attack.

Also see:

P.S.: On the subject of ignoring DPReview, I wish it were that easy. If we were talking about a private blogger with a hundred followers, we could safely ignore them.
DPReview on the other hand, has ~20,000,000 views per month.
What they write matters regarding camera and lens sales.
With their reviews and buying guides, they influence a considerable number of buyers.

I truly wish I could just ignore DPReview but I feel that we should keep revealing the flaws in their reviews and alert others to the sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle bias against Pentax.

If we don't defend "our" brand, who will?
Why should Pentax be the only brand with an user base unwilling to speak up for "their" brand?
Us speaking up is the sole reason the botched DPR tests were redone; is that bad, reason for name calling?