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01-03-2019, 10:24 AM - 2 Likes   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
(...)

I hope they'll be able to use a full-sized 645 sensor in the future.

That would be a nice differentiator to competition from Fuji, for instance, who are using what I like to call "baby MF", the same format as the 645Z which is a 1.88 crop of the original 645 format. This crop factor is higher than the difference between APS-C and FF (-> 1.5) and Pentax has the lenses that work with the uncropped 645 format.

(...)
A full-645 Pentax digital camera would be nice but the crop factor of the sensor in 645Z is 1.27, not 1.88.

√ ( 41.5 + 56 ) √ ( 32.8 + 43.8 ) = 1.27

01-03-2019, 10:26 AM   #47
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Theta V is announced on august 31th 2017. So there will be a new version in 2019 or we probably never see one again.
01-03-2019, 10:53 AM - 2 Likes   #48
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Once upon a time there was AOC: Asahi Optical Company.
Ricoh/Pentax is not an "optical company" anymore.
To release the first top level lens in a long time (D FA* 1.4/50mm) they had to team up with Tokina.
I'm not saying other recent lenses are bad, they are just far from outstanding.
Excellence needs investments and know-how (read: people), either formed internally or won from the competition paying huge checks.
I believe that if we knew the number of people involved in the engineering of new lenses, we would be surprised by how few they are.
If we consider the number of new lenses released by the likes of Laowa, Irix, Mitakon, etc, all way smaller than Pentax, it is evident that there are no investments, and no real focus on this field.
I prefer not to think that Ricoh's core business is about fax/copiers (with all that comes from that simple fact), and be happy that my K-1 is such a robust, well made piece of electro-mechanical work.
I would be happier if Sigma made their new lenses in PKAF mount (but that is not Sigma's fault, it's Hoya's and in part also Ricoh's), and if Tamron and Tokina were competing with Pentax, instead of collaborating.
Though I'm fine with it, and I will likely buy the successor to the K-1 II, if/when it will be released. I have a few high end modern AF lenses, that I use when I have to, and a huge number of vintage MF lenses, that are my favorite choice if AF is not needed.
Long time ago I wrote on this forum that a full frame DSLR camera would have made sense, business wise, even if it ended up being used mainly with vintage objectives, and Pentax didn't sell too many new lenses. My opinion was ridiculed, I was told that an FF camera would never happen, and that it would have made no sense commercially.
Well, it appears that Ricoh is following exactly that policy now
01-03-2019, 11:14 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by cyberjunkie Quote
Once upon a time there was AOC: Asahi Optical Company.
Ricoh/Pentax is not an "optical company" anymore.
To release the first top level lens in a long time (D FA* 1.4/50mm) they had to team up with Tokina.
I'm not saying other recent lenses are bad, they are just far from outstanding.
Excellence needs investments and know-how (read: people), either formed internally or won from the competition paying huge checks.
I believe that if we knew the number of people involved in the engineering of new lenses, we would be surprised by how few they are.
If we consider the number of new lenses released by the likes of Laowa, Irix, Mitakon, etc, all way smaller than Pentax, it is evident that there are no investments, and no real focus on this field.
I prefer not to think that Ricoh's core business is about fax/copiers (with all that comes from that simple fact), and be happy that my K-1 is such a robust, well made piece of electro-mechanical work.
I would be happier if Sigma made their new lenses in PKAF mount (but that is not Sigma's fault, it's Hoya's and in part also Ricoh's), and if Tamron and Tokina were competing with Pentax, instead of collaborating.
Though I'm fine with it, and I will likely buy the successor to the K-1 II, if/when it will be released. I have a few high end modern AF lenses, that I use when I have to, and a huge number of vintage MF lenses, that are my favorite choice if AF is not needed.
Long time ago I wrote on this forum that a full frame DSLR camera would have made sense, business wise, even if it ended up being used mainly with vintage objectives, and Pentax didn't sell too many new lenses. My opinion was ridiculed, I was told that an FF camera would never happen, and that it would have made no sense commercially.
Well, it appears that Ricoh is following exactly that policy now
My recollection comes from per-sebatical days so maybe 4-5 years ago but I recall Pentax releasing their top-name lens designer and the outrage/sadness/confusion among PF members at the time. So, I agree that in my book Pentax has lost a few key personnel in the optics arena and thus are less likely to come out with amazing and innovative designs natively.

01-03-2019, 11:24 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
if Ricoh focused on that, how would they generate income?
I'll pay them $500 to have the software feature I want, because it would change my Pentax K1 from a great camera into a camera that works better than any other full frame camera.
01-03-2019, 11:27 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by cyberjunkie Quote
To release the first top level lens in a long time (D FA* 1.4/50mm) they had to team up with Tokina.
Please explain. Is this not a ★ lens (which are always designed in-house), with Pentax owning the design patent, manufactured in the Pentax facility in Vietnam?
Are you implying that Pentax would not have released it if Tokina had not been willing to buy a license to build it in other mounts?
01-03-2019, 11:28 AM - 1 Like   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
My recollection comes from per-sebatical days so maybe 4-5 years ago but I recall Pentax releasing their top-name lens designer and the outrage/sadness/confusion among PF members at the time. So, I agree that in my book Pentax has lost a few key personnel in the optics arena and thus are less likely to come out with amazing and innovative designs natively.
You are thinking of Jun Hirakawa, who "retired" from Pentax in 2010, around the time Hoya acquired Pentax .... and then went to work for Tamron ..... so that was more like 8-9 years ago.
01-03-2019, 11:30 AM - 1 Like   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by cyberjunkie Quote
To release the first top level lens in a long time (D FA* 1.4/50mm) they had to team up with Tokina.
More financial than technical, I think, and the D-FA* 70-200/2.8 is a top class lens also. The Ricoh/Pentax team can come up with the goods.

01-03-2019, 11:30 AM - 1 Like   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
You are thinking of Jun Hirakawa, who "retired" from Pentax in 2010, around the time Hoya acquired Pentax .... and then went to work for Tamron.
Thanks, you are completely correct - he is who I was trying to recall.
01-03-2019, 11:32 AM - 2 Likes   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
My recollection comes from per-sebatical days so maybe 4-5 years ago but I recall Pentax releasing their top-name lens designer and the outrage/sadness/confusion among PF members at the time. So, I agree that in my book Pentax has lost a few key personnel in the optics arena and thus are less likely to come out with amazing and innovative designs natively.
If you're talking about Jun Hirakawa, then it's only fair to note that such well-regarded lenses as the DA 16-85, DA 20-40 Limited, D FA★ 70-200/2.8, D FA 28-105, and D FA★ 50/1.4 were all still made after he left, and even the FA 31/1.8 Limited doesn't have his name on it like the 43 and 77 do.

Last edited by Scintilla; 01-03-2019 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Forgot a star
01-03-2019, 11:35 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Scintilla Quote
If you're talking about Jun Hirakawa, then it's only fair to note that such well-regarded lenses as the DA 16-85, DA 20-40 Limited, D FA★ 70-200/2.8, D FA 28-105, and D FA★ 50/1.4 were all still made after he left, and even the FA 31/1.8 Limited doesn't have his name on it like the 43 and 77 do.
Unfortunately, almost all of those are fairly unremarkable in the areana of breaking new ground. 28-105 is an OLD standard zoon for 35mm, everyone has made 70-200/2.8s and thus there are many models to use as "inspriation", 50mm at 1.4 is not novel in ANY way. Of them all, the only one that strikes me as innovative may be the 20-40 Ltd.
01-03-2019, 11:35 AM - 1 Like   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by cyberjunkie Quote
I believe that if we knew the number of people involved in the engineering of new lenses, we would be surprised by how few they are.
My take on Ricoh Imaging is that given market conditions and what executives said, they reduced the camera division to 1 camera design team and 1 lens team, and so they cannot be smaller and they can at best, release 1 new camera model every 18 months and 1 new lens every 18 months. Ricoh are about to release the GRIII, that means they worked on the GR in 2018, after the KP, and they worked on the 70-200 f4 after the DFA*50. Since the GRIII is like the KP mostly refactoring of exact same tech as other models, in 2019, we can expect GRIII, maybe another camera by end 2019, and the 70-200 f4. The new camera model after the GRIII maybe postponed in 2020, and the DFA*85 end of 2019 or postponed in 2020. About the 645 full frame, I don't believe it will be the case because it would cost too much for Pentax to have a dedicated full frame MF, so they are more likely to fit the new Sony 100Mp BSI sensor into a 645 body with IBIS (NRE being paid by Fuji for their 100Mp MF mirrorless model).

---------- Post added 03-01-19 at 19:41 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Theta V is announced on august 31th 2017. So there will be a new version in 2019 or we probably never see one again.
The Theta market looked promising for Ricoh when they started, but in 2019, the 360 market appear to be crowded by Chinese brands, go pro (if I'm not wrong), prices are cheap, and we see even less 360 cameras than we see ILC cameras. My opinion is Theta was growing relatively faster than Pentax cameras, but they did not make any money out of it because they put so much of the R&D into it and starved off the DSLR group for a couple of years. They could well drop Theta. There is more money to be made with enthusiast ILC cameras, not only full frame , but also apsc, ILC is an established market with loyal hobbyists.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 01-03-2019 at 11:46 AM.
01-03-2019, 11:43 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
I plan to wait for "Official" information straight from Ricoh/Pentax. It would behove everyone to take articles like this with a grain of salt.
Regretably past experience suggests that we too easily attribute hiding something to their silence - usually when they say that they're only thinking abouth something, they mean just that - and downplaying expectation of the centennial rather than treating it as a marketing oportunity is a worrying sign as far as I'm concerned.

Last edited by ffking; 01-03-2019 at 01:37 PM.
01-03-2019, 11:56 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
About the 645 full frame, I don't believe it will be the case because it would cost too much for Pentax to have a dedicated full frame MF, so they are more likely to fit the new Sony 100Mp BSI sensor into a 645 body with IBIS (NRE being paid by Fuji for their 100Mp MF mirrorless model).
And we probably will move into 2020 for something if ever anything is coming for 645.
01-03-2019, 12:06 PM - 1 Like   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Unfortunately, almost all of those are fairly unremarkable in the areana of breaking new ground. 28-105 is an OLD standard zoon for 35mm, everyone has made 70-200/2.8s and thus there are many models to use as "inspriation", 50mm at 1.4 is not novel in ANY way. Of them all, the only one that strikes me as innovative may be the 20-40 Ltd.
DFA28-105 is by all means modern and very good opticaly zoom lens made entirely by Ricoh. DFA70-200/2.8 is also better than any of its competitors to date. New recently released DFA*50/1.4 is IQ comparable to 3x more expensive Zeiss Otus, not to mention Sigma 50mm Art lens, even if Tokina part of the deal is quite unclear(apart of the optics design being fully Ricoh IP).
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