[Trickortreat]

It's real world experience if you have exactly the camera tested.
Otherwise it isn't; and you cannot directly compare the results with those on any other camera.

True. But most test sites have all covered...

[kooks]

Im let down to know the 85 was pushed back..... I hope the lens can be in the stores by the end of the year

This are the things that most pro users can't handle.. not knowing what/when are the basic tools coming to the market... IMO, RICOH need lenses AND a new FF as soon as possible to not be left behind by this market train.. by this interview we can say that.. well nothing new, people is just flying the limb lands.

[Pål Jensen]

This are the things that most pro users can't handle.. not knowing what/when are the basic tools coming to the market... IMO, RICOH need lenses AND a new FF as soon as possible to not be left behind by this market train.. by this interview we can say that.. well nothing new, people is just flying the limb lands.

Basic tools? Probably one in ten thousand pros use a 85/1.4 lens. I know of no one.....

[kooks]

Basic tools? Probably one in ten thousand pros use a 85/1.4 lens. I know of no one.....

please tell me that is a joke... or perhaps we are just in very different photography fields.

[clackers]

MTF? it's for film testing. Does it better than Zeiss?

I think all that snow's getting to you, Ogl, you shouldn't speak of what you don't understand, people learn to not trust what you say when you do that. This will then happen even when you're actually right, BTW … so it's not worth it, IMHO!

MTF is the accepted industry standard for all this stuff.

A lens designer like Masakuzu Saori (what a talent he must be - can do the DA21 Limited or the DFA*50, the DA18-135 or the DA* 70-200 - he's arguably more important to the company than Jun Hirakawa was in his heyday) will use an optical testing bench and probably a laser collimator like his rivals at Canon and Nikon. He will study the graphs and adjust the prototype designs until he lets someone hand assemble a prototype for a working pro like Kimio Tanaka to test in the field (Tanaka has tested on and been consulted about everything from the Q to the 645Z). It is possible to see a decentred specimen instantly, from the graph.

The designers will adjust by computer model the likely real world performance when generating the curves, they're a claim, but there's no point lying in the specs because your rivals can show straight away on their own testing benches that it's not true. Lens Rentals maintains a couple of different testing benches for different mounts.

The MTF10 result is often regarded as a proxy for 'contrast' and the MTF30 for 'microcontrast'. Not my definitions, just existing usage by techheads. In the Zeiss diagram below, the black is MTF10 and the green MTF30, BTW.

Below you see the Pentax beats even the Zeiss Milvus, which isn't even an autofocus lens, only has manual aperture, and lacks image stabilization. (I reckon Fenwoodian has it all worked out … shoot these magnificently crafted Zeiss lenses adapted on a Pentax K-1 and get the benefit of IBIS and pixel shift). You could mount a case because of its focal length, performance, specs, pricing, and usefulness that it's the world's best prime lens. If you were a Canon or Nikon zoom user, you should buy the Tokina version and see what the other photography philosophy is all about.

What's also exciting is that it's the first in a family. it paves the way engineering-wise for 35mm and 85mm of a similar standard. I'm assuming Saori will do them all (I agree with Biz Engineer, from this armchair it looks like there's a single camera team and a single lens team at Ricoh these days), he's one man, the products will come out when he's done. And he has a track record of delaying things until they're right. He doesn't put something out in time for some European photo show (sorry RonHendricks, you're obsessed by trade conventions but they mean nothing to buyers), and he fixes problems he identifies. That's what I want from a designer.

[northcoastgreg]

I'm assuming Saori will do them all (I agree with Biz Engineer, from this armchair it looks like there's a single camera team and a single lens team at Ricoh these days), he's one man, the products will come out when he's done.

Saori is not the only lens designer team leader at Pentax. Takahiko Oishi's team is responsible for the DA* 11-18. There may also be a separate team responsible for the new DFA 70-200/4 (assuming it's not a Tokina rebadge). And then there's the new lens on the Ricoh GR III. If the DFA* 85 gets released later this year, then that will mean that Ricoh will have released four new lenses in 2019.

[clackers]

Saori is not the only lens designer team leader at Pentax. Takahiko Oishi's team is responsible for the DA* 11-18.

Thanks, Greg, Saori's the head of all projects now, Hirakawa's protégé as I understand it, so I hope he doesn't act as a bottleneck to the other designers.

I just looked at Douglasofsweden's excellent web page on Pentax designers and note that I already have an Oishi lens, the DA20-40 Ltd. Very happy with it, even on full-frame from 24mm onwards, so I'm sure the DA*11-18 will be great.

And does that mean we can finally kill the notion that pops up again on the forum (just recently, too) that the new lens is some Tokina ripoff?

Was it that Ian guy who jumped to Nikon who posted here superimposing the prototype image over that of the Tokina? As Kunzite would point out, essentially a drive-by shooting, trying to discredit Pentax.

---

Last edited by clackers; 01-04-2019 at 09:09 PM.

[JPT]

I don’t want to speak dismissively of Tokina, but they aren’t exactly prolific lens designers themselves. Most of their business is importing foreign made lenses and accessories into Japan, being the local distributors for Samyang, Lensbaby, Laowa, Slik, Tamrac, Cokin and others.

When you look the lenses they made themselves, the only recent one is the Firin 20/2 for mirrorless. Of all the collaborations they have done with Pentax, only the 12-24 resulted in Pentax marketing their IP, as far as I know. I sometimes visit the showroom/store on the second floor of their head office. It’s quite interesting in the sense that it’s a bit of a ramshackle collection of current and historical bricabrack. But it’s clear they are not a huge, resourceful company. Ricoh doesn’t need them for expertise; they need them to spread costs across other mounts.

In the case of the upcoming 70-200/4 lens, it is an utterly orthodox type of lens, so of course it is going to look like other lenses, just like the 50/1.4 looked like the Sigma 50/1.4. It’s funny how Pentax’s detractors will quickly dismiss anything orthodox is a rebrand and anything obviously original as eccentric and useless.

I’m sure Ricoh has the capability to work on multiple products at a time. I’m not sure about lenses so much, but I think there are at least three camera development teams, based on interviews I’ve read. For example, the team that worked on the K-1 said they went straight on to the KP, so there must have been another team working on the K-70. Then separately I read that the people working on the GR were previously working on Theta V.

I think we should have seen more product last year, but a number got pushed back into 2019. Also, it’s interesting that the GR and the Tokina 50/1.4 is being made in Vietnam. If that factory has been modernized, it might be another reason for delays.

[Rondec]

Basic tools? Probably one in ten thousand pros use a 85/1.4 lens. I know of no one.....

Well, the 85mm f1.4 was one of two primes I was looking forward to (the other was a 20-ish mm one). I do think plenty of people who shoot portraits or weddings use them. Currently we use the FA 77, but it is pretty prone to fringing.

[cyberjunkie]

Reading some posts, which dismiss the new DFA 50mm as a lens like all the others, makes me think that some people have no idea of what they're writing about.
The problem does not lie with the capability of Ricoh/Pentax to release top class objectives, the real problem is the... let's say, very cautious commitment.
Without serious investments you don't go very far. It's always been true and in present time it's truer than ever.
At this pace cleansing Hoya's capital sins would require forever.
Japanese conservative approach has given PK mount (that's all I care about) a present.
As long as the PK mount is preserved, I wouldn't mind a chinese take over. Chinese capitals would bring much needed dynamism. I wouldn't be so sure about the survival of the PK(AF) mount, though

[Pål Jensen]

Well, the 85mm f1.4 was one of two primes I was looking forward to (the other was a 20-ish mm one). I do think plenty of people who shoot portraits or weddings use them. Currently we use the FA 77, but it is pretty prone to fringing.

I have no problem with the fact that many will want this lens. What I reacted to was the phrases "most pros" and "basic tools". Neither is true. Basic tools for most, pros or not, are zoom lenses these days....

[Trickortreat]

I have no problem with the fact that many will want this lens. What I reacted to was the phrases "most pros" and "basic tools". Neither is true. Basic tools for most, pros or not, are zoom lenses these days....

Dunno bout that. Primes are making a comeback last few years and more and more people i see around with any kind of ILC have a prime on it.
And I for one have exactly 0 zooms.

[cyberjunkie]

... two lenses I find particular relevant in this context are the DA 55-300 PLM and the DFA 28-105. What's innovative about these lenses is that Pentax has dared to put excellent optics in a compact slow aperture lens, something that is actually surprisingly rare in the photographic world (which tends to discriminate against slow, variable aperture lenses). As a landscape photographer, I don't need fast or constant aperture zooms. Nor do I want to have to lug around big, expensive zooms. The DFA 28-105 gives me the contrast and edge to edge sharpness of the high-end constant aperture zooms in a smaller, significantly less expensive package. Now that's an innovation worth appreciating.

I understand your point, Norm.
I guess many other pentaxians share the same views.
Though I am not so sure you can call those two lenses "innovative".
The 55-300 PML is innovative only in relative terms, because for the first time Pentax gave its users a long zoom with fast internal motor.
For the 28-105 full frame I would use different words, like "sensible", "useful", "no-nonsense"... but it's not breaking any record, nor setting a new standard in price vs performance ratio.
As good as it seems, from what I read (and see), it still is too expensive for my taste, considering that the best of its precursors, the last FA (mostly found in silver), is almost as good and can be found for a very decent price in the second-hand market.
The DFA* 1.4/50mm is actually innovative, not because it is "different", but because it shows that Pentax still has the capability to release a lens that can top the charts, matching (or even beating) the best of the best in the same focal length.
It has been a (much needed) bold move, though some other good news need to follow. Other way it's just a proof of what could be done, and not a step of a well thought strategy.
Good, reasonably small prosumer lenses, both zooms and primes, have been at the core of Pentax strategy in the good old days.
Your words confirm that there there is a place for such lenses, even today.

Regarding the zooms vs primes debate, it is true that most pros use zooms these days... but they have a fast prime in thir bag too (50mm or 85mm).
If Internet is an indicator, I see a steady increment in the interest for vintage primes. Pros aren't impervious to that, even if it's absolutely true that the bulk of their work is done with fast zoom workhorses.

[biz-engineer]

As long as the PK mount is preserved, I wouldn't mind a chinese take over. Chinese capitals would bring much needed dynamism. I wouldn't be so sure about the survival of the PK(AF) mount, though

Do you mean camera dynamism like DJ did to Hasselblad?

The entry of Panasonic to FF marketing is very interesting to watch. Panasonic seems to come up with the best set of mirrorless cameras. Interestingly, the number of forum activity for Panasonic is about a 1/3 of what is from the 3 other brands. That's instructive: ILC owners don't switch brands quickly, even if Pentax invests heavily the investment won't get the return it requires, it will just create losses, simply because the users base it what it is and it doesn't change overnight because Ricoh pours a lot of money all of a sudden. What's making the matter worse is that DSLR isn't expected to grow.

[reh321]

Dunno bout that. Primes are making a comeback last few years and more and more people i see around with any kind of ILC have a prime on it.
And I for one have exactly 0 zooms.

I for one have exactly 0 primes in my bag {I have a bunch of older primes, but I hardly ever use them}