[Mountain Vision]

Just so everyone knows... Even Nikon fans aren't entirely happy with the new Z series lens road map. Make sure you read the comments below the article.

https://fstoppers.com/gear/too-expensive-and-not-fast-enough-nikon-announces...-and-z7-326833

[virusn3t]

Just so everyone knows... Even Nikon fans aren't entirely happy with the new Z series lens road map. Make sure you read the comments below the article.

Too Expensive and Not Fast Enough? Nikon Announces the 14-30mm f/4 Lens for the Z6 and Z7 | Fstoppers

The thing is... The "z" mount is new and theres an adaptor, Pentax dont have that, its not that we demand Pentax release right know several lenses, its the lack of info about the release the reason most of us arent happy...

[Paul the Sunman]

Right... and even if we did know the exact costs, and those costs looked appealing to us, we - as laymen and consumers - still wouldn't know if updating the FA Limited lenses would have delivered to Ricoh's (presumably well-thought-out) strategy

Am I right in thinking that Ricoh/Pentax has shown absolutely no intention to adapt old FA lens designs to their new DFA offerings? If they were going to do it, it would have been the easiest route, so they probably would have done it by now.

[BigMackCam]

Just so everyone knows... Even Nikon fans aren't entirely happy with the new Z series lens road map. Make sure you read the comments below the article.

Too Expensive and Not Fast Enough? Nikon Announces the 14-30mm f/4 Lens for the Z6 and Z7 | Fstoppers

Until any platform has been around long enough for a mature and relatively complete stable of modern AF lenses to have materialised, there will always be argument over what lenses should have come first, what should come next etc.

Full-frame digital K-mount is still in its infancy. It will be several years before there are enough lenses, and sufficient variety of them, that the majority of users will be satisfied. Even then, there'll be some who hope for more or different.

Sony E-mount is probably the best and most recent example to have gone through this entire cycle (i.e. to the point of some maturity). FF K-mount will get there in time, just as Sony E-mount did, and it'll experience just as many complaints and criticisms along the way...

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Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-10-2019 at 07:03 PM.

[BigMackCam]

Am I right in thinking that Ricoh/Pentax has shown absolutely no intention to adapt old FA lens designs to their new DFA offerings? If they were going to do it, it would have been the easiest route, so they probably would have done it by now.

You're right, so far as I know.

Having said that, in fairness to @Rico I can see there'd be demand for a refresh of the FA Limiteds, and Ricoh has mentioned expanding (?) in the Limited area once the star lenses are done. So they clearly feature in Ricoh's strategy... just not in the order Rico and some other folks might like; and we don't yet know what "expand" means... is it more, different, updated, additional etc.? And as for pricing... well, forgive me if I remain cautious

[Mountain Vision]

The thing is... The "z" mount is new and theres an adaptor, Pentax dont have that, its not that we demand Pentax release right know several lenses, its the lack of info about the release the reason most of us arent happy...

Yeah, I understand the lack of any sort of road map or guidance from Pentax being frustrating. It is for me too. But even where there are road maps there is discontent.

It does, however, seem Nikon is (initially) going smaller and lighter with its mirrorless lenses.

[Rico]

But the fact that the old FA LTDs are still selling is also evidence supporting the opposite opinion that Ricoh does not need to update these lenses!

What we internet pundits (outside the hallowed halls of the company) don't know is the exact engineering and capex cost of updating each lens, the added materials costs of updating each lens, the required upcharge on retail prices for updated lenses and whether enough these higher-priced updated lenses will sell to recover all those additional costs.

Without knowledge of the exact cost structure of updating and decent estimates of updated lens sales (at higher prices), it's impossible to say for a fact what Ricoh should have done or should do now.

The only reason the FA LTD's are still selling is there are no other choices for Full Frame primes from Pentax. If Pentax were to modernize them people would not stop buying them quite the contrary.

[monochrome]

In the digital age they could phase out the FA31. 28mm makes better sense for the reasons mentioned. 28mm fits better for both FF and APS-C.

I can assure you Trickortreat my experience is not anecdotal. Now you are just either being rude or ignorant.

That won’t happen soon because they have years of supply held in inventory. If people still want to buy the Princesses they’ll do another batch, and keep doing them until people stop buying them.

[EDIT]My bets.[/EDIT]

They’ll add FF focal lengths in Limited trim (e.g. a D FA28/2.8 Limited) and a few more * primes, plus eventually a Trinity set of f/4 zooms at a fairly high trim level (maybe the first Limited zooms) - lenses that punch above their price. A 24-105 Limited would be nice, but - Pentax.

They’ll redo the DA*16-50/2.8 and DA*50-135/2.8 to the DA*11-18/2.8 standard (and concurrently release a flagship APSc camera - get it?) first though.

FWIW, I just bought a HD DA35/2.8 - people still buy DA Limiteds for use on the KP. It’s a fabulous lens.

[Rico]

The K-1 was bound to be without modern primes when it was released, as this was a new format for digital Pentax, having been limited to APS-C and smaller for many years. Hence, Ricoh prioritised the main zooms that are considered pretty much a baseline requirement for the format (since they cover a multitude of common use cases), and those they duly produced. Next up, the D FA* 50 f/1.4... a premium quality, fast, normal prime with amazing optical performance. This is what Ricoh deemed most important based on its strategy. And so to the D FA* 85 next, again delivering to that strategy. Etc... etc...

K-1 was only bound to be without modern primes because that was the path Ricoh/Pentax took. They created the 1530 and 2470 instead for the release which was intended to attract the "Pro" market. The DFA*50 and 85 are also targeting the "Pro" market. Ricoh/Pentax has relied on brand loyalty from their consumer user base to be satisfied with buying film era primes for the K-1.

---------- Post added 01-10-19 at 10:03 PM ----------

That won’t happen soon because they have years of supply held in inventory. If people still want to buy the Princesses they’ll do another batch, and keep doing them until people stop buying them.

They’ll add FF focal lengths in Limited trim (e.g. a D FA28/2.8 Limited) and a few more * primes, plus eventually a Trinity set of f/4 zooms at a fairly high trim level (maybe the first Limited zooms) - lenses that punch above their price. A 24-105 Limited would be nice, but - Pentax.

They’ll redo the DA*16-50/2.8 and DA*50-135/2.8 to the DA*11-18/2.8 standard (and concurrently release a flagship APSc camera - get it?) first though.

FWIW, I just bought a HD DA35/2.8 - people still buy DA Limiteds for use on the KP. It’s a fabulous lens.

People are not going to stop buying them if that is all they have to buy. If they made modern DFA LTD's the user base would buy them.

[monochrome]

People are not going to stop buying them if that is all they have to buy. If they made modern DFA LTD's the user base would buy them.

I really don’t think people would buy them. They wouldn’t be the SMC FA Limited Princesses. Which is why I believe they’ll add HD D FA Limiteds in new focal lengths.

[virusn3t]

Yeah, I understand the lack of any sort of road map or guidance from Pentax being frustrating. It is for me too. But even where there are road maps there is discontent.

It does, however, seem Nikon is (initially) going smaller and lighter with its mirrorless lenses.

I think if they offer big and heavy lenses for their "small" mirrorles, very quickly their customer will want to come back to the DSRL for size/weight balance, and give medium size lightweigth lenses it will make a difference againt the DSRL mount, worst case scenario the Z user only need to purchase the adaptor and use the fast and heavy lenses... Nikon user can have both mounts in the Z camera.

Sony star the same way with medium aperture lenses

[FS1]

I really don’t think people would buy them. They wouldn’t be the SMC FA Limited Princesses. Which is why I believe they’ll do HD D FA Limiteds in new focal lengths.

Yes. I think people primarily buy the FA LTDs for the unique rendering (as it is now), not primarily to fill a prime 'gap' around the given focal length. And I'd even bet most buyers are still primarily APS-C users, not full frame users... Many of us bought these before the original K-1 was ever announced.

Unless there was a pretty surefire way to maintain the overall renderings in modernized versions of these lenses, I think Pentax would be smart not to tinker with these particular designs. They are legendary, unique differentiators for Pentax. Add new similar modernized designs (high quality, small, light weight, fast but not f1.4) whenever that is possible.

[Rico]

I really don’t think people would buy them. They wouldn’t be the SMC FA Limited Princesses. Which is why I believe they’ll do HD D FA Limiteds in new focal lengths.

What other focal lengths are they going to choose? The FA LTD's focal lengths were specifically chosen for FF for a reason which make those focal lengths ideal for FF DSLR's for the same reasons as well. They will be DFA LTD's princesses with QuickShift focus modern digital coating etc. Why would DSLR users not want to buy such lens even APS-C shooters. Certainly not for nostalgia reasons. And you don't have to worry it will not be like Ricoh/Pentax will ever demand a recall of all the FA LTD's out there if they do ever modernize them.

[monochrome]

Yes. I think people primarily buy the FA LTDs for the unique rendering (as it is now), not primarily to fill a prime 'gap' around the given focal length. And I'd even bet most buyers are still primarily APS-C users, not full frame users... Many of us bought these before the original K-1 was ever announced.

Unless there was a pretty surefire way to maintain the overall renderings in modernized versions of these lenses, I think Pentax would be smart not to tinker with these particular designs. They are legendary, unique differentiators for Pentax. Add new similar modernized designs (high quality, small, light weight, fast but not f1.4) whenever that is possible.

You expressed my reasoning very well. The lenses as they are differentiate Pentax.

What other focal lengths are they going to choose? The FA LTD's focal lengths were specifically chosen for FF for a reason which make those focal lengths ideal for FF DSLR's for the same reasons as well. They will be DFA LTD's princesses with QuickShift focus modern digital coating etc. Why would DSLR users not want to buy such lens even APS-C shooters. Certainly not for nostalgia reasons. And you don't have to worry it will not be like Ricoh/Pentax will ever demand a recall of all the FA LTD's out there if they do ever modernize them.

I’m quite certain your lenses would be fine lenses, but they wouldn’t be the Princesses. They would be larger, they would render differently - and they would be . . . Modern.

[FS1]

What other focal lengths are they going to choose? The FA LTD's focal lengths were specifically chosen for FF for a reason which make those focal lengths ideal for FF DSLR's for the same reasons as well. They will be DFA LTD's princesses with QuickShift focus modern digital coating etc. Why would DSLR users not want to buy such lens even APS-C shooters. Certainly not for nostalgia reasons. And you don't have to worry it will not be like Ricoh/Pentax will ever demand a recall of all the FA LTD's out there if they do ever modernize them.

If they could really do all that and maintain the current rendering, then yes, it would be a winning formula. It may be a lot tougher than it sounds, though. Rather than trying to maintain the rendering and retrofit the optical designs into new lens parameters, it may actually be more viable to use modern technology to create new HD DFA LTDs (as @monochrome pointed out) in other focal lengths. And then Pentax users have even more choices. (If it is actually pretty straightforward to retrofit those older optical designs into modernized lenses and maintain the IQ, then Pentax should resurrect the 200mm macro and a couple other lenses as well!)