[RGlasel]

Had Ricoh Imaging had enough resources, they would have developed three or four lenses and various adapters (e.g. with and without AF motor) which would have been available at the launch of their first mirrorless camera (as did Canon and Nikon) and they would have then developed around six or seven lens per year (as did Fujifilm after launching their X mount and as Nikon forecast in their roadmap, Canon being less loquacious on the topic).

Even if Ricoh Imaging had made this investment, it still would have been the seventh largest MILC manufacturer, fighting for less than 5% of the market; a market that will still finish the year with less than 10% growth in units compared to 2017, even with momentous moves by the two biggest manufacturers early enough in the year to exploit the traditional September to December peak season. The financial overseers at Ricoh Company would use such a pitiful return on investment as an excuse to abandon consumer camera manufacturing entirely. Be careful what you wish for.

still show DSLRs had 28% more units made and 38% more units shipped than did MILCs.

That still isn't good news, the DSLR market (and the standalone camera market overall) is still dropping in units, after indications in 2017 that it had bottomed out and wouldn't get any worse. Whatever investments any camera manufacturer smaller than Canon and Nikon makes in 2019 could be fatal. Let's see who is still in the game come 2020.

[reh321]

canon is revamping their aps-c dslr line - down to one camera.

Where is this published?

Assuming this is actually true, why are you interpreting this as end of DSLR rather than end of APS-C?

[BROO]

It appears to me that Ricoh's current strategy with Pentax is to extract as much out of the existing K mount Eco system users and to leave it at that. For example the K-1 was released to satisfy Pentaxians who wanted a full frame camera whilst the KP was for Pentaxians who want a small companion to the K-1 or have limited lenses. I really don't think they care about competing in the larger camera market. They just have a small, self contained, lean business model and hopefully they can be profitable with that.

[punkrachmaninov]

Where is this published?

Assuming this is actually true, why are you interpreting this as end of DSLR rather than end of APS-C?

APS-C DSLR lineup to get a shake up? [CR1] | Canon Rumors

*throws some salt over it

[monochrome]

It appears to me that Ricoh's current strategy with Pentax is to extract as much out of the existing K mount Eco system users and to leave it at that. For example the K-1 was released to satisfy Pentaxians who wanted a full frame camera whilst the KP was for Pentaxians who want a small companion to the K-1 or have limited lenses. I really don't think they care about competing in the larger camera market. They just have a small, self contained, lean business model and hopefully they can be profitable with that.

That’s probably about right, and they don’t need to be very profitable, just a little profitable.

As Mistral75 wrote above, though, if there aren’t enough resources to market, expand development, have enough facilities to manufacture multiple cameras and lenses at the same time and respond to changing consumer demands (agree tor not, the market is demanding MILC’s), eventually your customer base erodes to the point that you are just too small to do anything. The global economic slowdown (especially in China) isn’t helping, either.

They really need a capital injection to restart cash flow, but Ricoh is highly unlikely to make that commitment.

[clackers]

It appears to me that Ricoh's current strategy with Pentax is to extract as much out of the existing K mount Eco system users and to leave it at that. For example the K-1 was released to satisfy Pentaxians who wanted a full frame camera whilst the KP was for Pentaxians who want a small companion to the K-1 or have limited lenses. I really don't think they care about competing in the larger camera market. They just have a small, self contained, lean business model and hopefully they can be profitable with that.

Yep, posters who want a 'me too' strategy are horribly mistaken, IMHO, Broo. It's a wonder they bought a Pentax product in the first place, it hasn't been mainstream for years!

In the Welcomes and Introductions section of this forum, we do get people crossing over from other platforms, including all the mirrorless ones, and a guy who was an Fstoppers tog of the month and convenes fashion workshops I attend occasionally here in Melbourne has just bought himself a 645Z, not a Hassy or Phase One or Fuji, and not prompted by me.

It does surprise me in an increasingly homogenous world culturally that there are still some people who have discernment, but they're there.

[repaap]

I guess I would add that the K-1 sequel should be an SLR that "checks all the boxes." That is to say that it has better frame rate and auto focus, it has better video, and it maintains excellent still image quality. It keeps the top end ergonomics Pentax is well known for. I guess I'm seeing 8 fps, 4K video, buffer size that is double that of the K-1, and improved shake reduction. Body size just slightly smaller than the K-1, but still with excellent build and weather sealing. A true silent shooting mode available and live view auto focus that is pretty nice. It will include an accelerator, but will allow it be disabled below iso 1600. Price tag in the 2200 to 2500 range.

K-1 II will remain on the market for at least a year after this camera's release and be a cheaper option for those who don't need the K-1 III's specs.

even with 6,7 fps you can count me in!

[BigMackCam]

canon is revamping their aps-c dslr line - down to one camera.

Where is this published?

Assuming this is actually true, why are you interpreting this as end of DSLR rather than end of APS-C?

APS-C DSLR lineup to get a shake up? [CR1] | Canon Rumors

*throws some salt over it

Unless I've misread it, that Canon Rumours article doesn't state there will only be one ASP-C DSLR model

Rather, it says:

• the APS-C line up will shrink
• EOS 80D and 7D MkII will be amalgamated into a single model
• EOS 77D will remain, perhaps subject to an update

Right now, Canon offers an eye-watering eleven (count 'em!!) different APS-C DSLRs - the EOS 2000D, 4000D, 800D, 70D, 7DMkII, 77D, 1300D, 200D, 80D, 700D, 750D. Some consolidation and trimming of that range is justified, especially considering the four mirrorless APS-C cameras - EOS M50, M5, M6 and M100. Indeed, one might reasonably suggest the current range is a tad bloated and well-overdue for a re-think.

It wouldn't surprise me if Canon reduces the APS-C DSLR model line still further, since merely amalgamating the 80D and 7D MkII will only reduce the range by (and not to) one model...

[totsmuyco]

Unless I've misread it, that Canon Rumours article doesn't state there will only be one ASP-C DSLR model

Rather, it says:

• the APS-C line up will shrink
• EOS 80D and 7D MkII will be amalgamated into a single model
• EOS 77D will remain, perhaps subject to an update

Right now, Canon offers an eye-watering eleven (count 'em!!) different APS-C DSLRs - the EOS 2000D, 4000D, 800D, 70D, 7DMkII, 77D, 1300D, 200D, 80D, 700D, 750D. Some consolidation and trimming of that range is justified, especially considering the four mirrorless APS-C cameras - EOS M50, M5, M6 and M100. Indeed, one might reasonably suggest the current range is a tad bloated and well-overdue for a re-think.

It wouldn't surprise me if Canon reduces the APS-C DSLR model line still further, since merely amalgamating the 80D and 7D MkII will only reduce the range by (and not to) one model...

Man, if I were a beginner I would be confused with all of these models. If the differences in each model isn't big enough, I think it's a waste of resources and I'm sure there are unprofitable models. I like the way Pentax offers their cameras, 1 FF, 2 -3 APSC bodies which are clearly differentiated from one another.

[biz-engineer]

By all accounts, the K-1 sold well. Well, at least, for a Pentax.

The year of release of the K1, Pentax probably recorded its best EBIT since the K5, so I guess that in 2016 the Pentax unit should have be evaluated positively from Ricoh top management, unless the Pentax division oversold the FF frame project to Ricoh. In absolute terms, from what I can see of the K1 activity in photo galleries, I think the K1 did relatively better for Ricoh than relative performance of new DSLR released for Canon and Nikon. The newly released models in 2018 show less steep adoption curve than what we've seen from the K1. It is difficult to remain objective, due to reliable figures not available to customers. I feel that if ever Pentax camera was as successful as the K1, Pentax would be doing very very well. On the other hand, I find that the K1 Mk II doesn't get the success that it deserves, I think the unfair feedback from online reviewers of the K1 II is the cause.

[BigMackCam]

Man, if I were a beginner I would be confused with all of these models. If the differences in each model isn't big enough, I think it's a waste of resources and I'm sure there are unprofitable models. I like the way Pentax offers their cameras, 1 FF, 2 -3 APSC bodies which are clearly differentiated from one another.

Indeed. Personally, I can't see much justification in having more than three APS-C DSLR models... one each for entry level, mid range and high end. So Canon certainly has room to trim and consolidate, depending on its strategy.

With Ricoh / Pentax, funding and resources pretty much dictate a narrow range of bodies. But, as you point out, that's no bad thing

[biz-engineer]

It appears to me that Ricoh's current strategy with Pentax is to extract as much out of the existing K mount Eco system users and to leave it at that. For example the K-1 was released to satisfy Pentaxians who wanted a full frame camera whilst the KP was for Pentaxians who want a small companion to the K-1 or have limited lenses. I really don't think they care about competing in the larger camera market. They just have a small, self contained, lean business model and hopefully they can be profitable with that.

Yes, it's a very good summary. They survey preferences of their existing customers in Japan, it's a good sign that their priority is to satisfy the existing user base. I wouldn't say it's a defensive approach, but at least it's not offensive, so it shouldn't be a surprise if the Pentax business is flat. Considering market figure is wrong in the way that Pentax market share will look like decreasing if the mirrorless sales are increasing, simple because market share is relative , not absolute.

[Rondec]

Unless I've misread it, that Canon Rumours article doesn't state there will only be one ASP-C DSLR model

Rather, it says:

• the APS-C line up will shrink
• EOS 80D and 7D MkII will be amalgamated into a single model
• EOS 77D will remain, perhaps subject to an update

Right now, Canon offers an eye-watering eleven (count 'em!!) different APS-C DSLRs - the EOS 2000D, 4000D, 800D, 70D, 7DMkII, 77D, 1300D, 200D, 80D, 700D, 750D. Some consolidation and trimming of that range is justified, especially considering the four mirrorless APS-C cameras - EOS M50, M5, M6 and M100. Indeed, one might reasonably suggest the current range is a tad bloated and well-overdue for a re-think.

It wouldn't surprise me if Canon reduces the APS-C DSLR model line still further, since merely amalgamating the 80D and 7D MkII will only reduce the range by (and not to) one model...

The problem a lot of companies have is that they keep older models around far too long, often with lower prices. I'm never sure if this is a business model or just because they manufactured too many in the first place and they don't want to make it officially discontinued until the old stock is sold.

Sony is still selling the A7, a camera that was released in October of 2013 -- and I think every full frame camera they have released since then. Clearly for them it is a business model in which rather than making an entry level camera with fewer features, they just keep cameras around and lower their prices.

---------- Post added 01-16-19 at 05:47 AM ----------

Even if Ricoh Imaging had made this investment, it still would have been the seventh largest MILC manufacturer, fighting for less than 5% of the market; a market that will still finish the year with less than 10% growth in units compared to 2017, even with momentous moves by the two biggest manufacturers early enough in the year to exploit the traditional September to December peak season. The financial overseers at Ricoh Company would use such a pitiful return on investment as an excuse to abandon consumer camera manufacturing entirely. Be careful what you wish for.That still isn't good news, the DSLR market (and the standalone camera market overall) is still dropping in units, after indications in 2017 that it had bottomed out and wouldn't get any worse. Whatever investments any camera manufacturer smaller than Canon and Nikon makes in 2019 could be fatal. Let's see who is still in the game come 2020.

The thing is that new cameras are what sell and the new cameras that came out last year were nearly all of the mirrorless variety. By all accounts mirrorless should have had the majority of sales last year based on the Z, EOS-R and other mirrorless cameras that hit the market, combined with the dearth of new top end SLRs. It just didn't happen. Some people just like an optical viewfinder and will keep buying them as long as they are available.

If Ricoh is one of the few brands that continues to invest in still photography and SLR experience, they certainly could continue to do well going forward. They don't need a 40 percent share of the market. They just need each product they release to at least break even or generate some profit. I think it is clear that they have all done that.

I imagine that their product cycle is going to space out a bit. There is no reason to release a new APS-C camera every year to eighteen months. People don't update their cameras that often and those camera bodies end up just sitting on shelves.

Anyway, there is no particular reason for gloom, but unfortunately, the time between product releases is probably going to be long than we like.

[ikeinguyen]

Still waiting for GRi to lower than 100$...

[reh321]

Unless I've misread it, that Canon Rumours article doesn't state there will only be one ASP-C DSLR model

Rather, it says:

• the APS-C line up will shrink
• EOS 80D and 7D MkII will be amalgamated into a single model
• EOS 77D will remain, perhaps subject to an update

Right now, Canon offers an eye-watering eleven (count 'em!!) different APS-C DSLRs - the EOS 2000D, 4000D, 800D, 70D, 7DMkII, 77D, 1300D, 200D, 80D, 700D, 750D. Some consolidation and trimming of that range is justified, especially considering the four mirrorless APS-C cameras - EOS M50, M5, M6 and M100. Indeed, one might reasonably suggest the current range is a tad bloated and well-overdue for a re-think.

It wouldn't surprise me if Canon reduces the APS-C DSLR model line still further, since merely amalgamating the 80D and 7D MkII will only reduce the range by (and not to) one model...

Sun rises over UK earlier than it does here, so I'm just now getting to this. As I read this article, it is postulating a total of at least three APS-C DSLRs in production at one time
1. replacement for {80D, 7Dii}
2. 77D - or replacement.
3. Rebels (*)

Like Pentax, Canon often has older {no longer in production} lines for sale, which would account for the vast number in your list


(*) "recently" Canon often had two lines of Rebel - such as T5, T5i or T7i, SL2 - in production at one time