[reh321]

APS-C DSLR lineup to get a shake up? [CR1] | Canon Rumors

*throws some salt over it

OK, so Canon might be 'rationalizing' their APS-C SLR line down to three models ..... how does this justify a statement that they are eliminating all DSLR lines?? {especially since article talks about one or two replacement APS-C DSLR models in the foreseeable future}

[reh321]

APS-C DSLR lineup to get a shake up? [CR1] | Canon Rumors

*throws some salt over it

Please note that this is a "CR1" level rumor, which is just a step above "joke" there - plausible but nothing more.

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[Mistral75]

(...) Considering market figure is wrong in the way that Pentax market share will look like decreasing if the mirrorless sales are increasing (...)

The BCN-provided 6.7% (2015) --> 4.8% (2016) --> 4.2% (2017) --> 3.1% (2018) sequence is relative to Ricoh Imaging's share of the Japanese DSLR market. Mirrorless cameras are not taken into account (BCN publish a separate market share calculation and ranking for them).

[altopiet]

The BCN-provided 6.7% (2015) --> 4.8% (2016) --> 4.2% (2017) --> 3.1% (2018) sequence is relative to Ricoh Imaging's share of the Japanese DSLR market. Mirrorless cameras are not taken into account (BCN publish a separate market share calculation and ranking for them).

Any numbers if all ILC is taken into account?

[clackers]

Any numbers if all ILC is taken into account?

As explained before, BCN stats are nearly worthless, and should not be used in any argument, IMHO.

CIPA stats are close to definitive.

[biz-engineer]

The BCN-provided 6.7% (2015) --> 4.8% (2016) --> 4.2% (2017) --> 3.1% (2018) sequence is relative to Ricoh Imaging's share of the Japanese DSLR market. Mirrorless cameras are not taken into account (BCN publish a separate market share calculation and ranking for them).

I don't know what's the point of those figures. Are we afraid that we won't be able to have the oil changed by Ricoh on our K1s after the image engine reaches 15000Km? Next time I'll get a canon system so that I don't have to read such thread (there will be more of other stupid threads, but not this one).

[Mistral75]

As explained before, BCN stats are nearly worthless, and should not be used in any argument, IMHO.

CIPA stats are close to definitive.

CIPA stats say the Jan.-Nov. 2018 shipments to Japan were split 45% DSLR vs. 55% mirrorless cameras when considering the number of cameras shipped and 42% DSLR vs. 58% mirrorless cameras when considering their value.

Unfortunately CIPA don't publish any brand-specific stats.

---

Last edited by Mistral75; 01-16-2019 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Typo

[nzondlo]

My personal opinion is that if they do create another MILC, they'd be better off finding some way to make it use K-1 mount anyway.

I'd be happy with a new mount and a quality adapter like everyone else is doing.

[biz-engineer]

In the CP+2018 Ricoh interview, Ricoh said that according to CIPA, the total camera market is decreasing due to compact cameras but not related to mirrorless or DSLR.

[RonHendriks1966]

In the CP+2018 Ricoh interview, Ricoh said that according to CIPA, the total camera market is decreasing due to compact cameras but not related to mirrorless or DSLR.

This year they can say that the market for dslr is plummitted.

[mtgmansf]

Just about any way you look at it, unless Pentax comes out with some new pro and enthusiast cameras and expands their lens line up soon, their percentage of sales of any and all market share stats will continue to decline. My sense is, go upscale: Pentax KIII,645ZII, and K3III/K2. Upcoming lenses in the "announced" roadmap already point in this direction...

[reh321]

I'd be happy with a new mount and a quality adapter like everyone else is doing.

Compared to a K-01, the Canon EOS-R, Nikon Z7, Sony A7rii aren't that much smaller.
Based on Nikon's example, "quality adapter" would provide full capability for only so many lenses. (*)

Pentax has also shown a weakness in developing new lenses.
I'm just not sure the benefits are worth the angst in retiring K-mount we would see here.


(*) apparently the Nikon FTZ doesn't support screw-drive AF

]Cons[/B] Design interferes with camera tripod socket. Pricey. Some third-party lens compatibility issues. Doesn't focus screw-drive lenses.

Nikon Mount Adapter FTZ Review & Rating | PCMag.com

No af motor and click, click, click

It's good, but wish it had an AF motor.

amazon.com : Nikon Mount Adapter FTZ : Camera & Photo?tag=pentaxforums-20&

[punkrachmaninov]

It seems many people were convinced that MILC would kill DSLRs once Canon and Nikon joined the MILC wagon. So what does the jury tell us so far?. The sales and production figures for November 2018 (which should surely show the MILC launch peak for Aug/Sept/Oct launches of the new cameras) still show DSLRs had 28% more units made and 38% more units shipped than did MILCs. Even with Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, and Leica now all offering MILCs, DSLRs still beat them.

MILC may have dominated the internet chatter stream, but that noise was not reflected (HA! ) in the actual sales figures.

why didn't i buy one yet? you forget that essentially these new to the segment manufacturers have yet to enter the market... only the sony a9 is really a professional option, the rest is just consumer crapola. yesterday it was nice to see sony buy themselves another year on the a9... although it is unrelated to mirrorless, i wish Pentax had been as smooth with their K1 upgrade PR.

the canon lenses are the only nice glass initially offered, but canon released their baby mirrorless camera. the canon pros won't buy in until the real one comes out.

the opposite thing happened at Nikon--they released a nice camera in the z7, but it has inferior launch lens options.

it is all just getting started, aps-c is next after m4/3... you guys can pretend all you want, but i see the numbers reflecting a trend that pentax cannot afford to ignore... why do you think sony is so willing to rest on their 67% share of the full frame mirrorless market? let the others fail. it works, at least for awhile.

[punkrachmaninov]

Indeed. Personally, I can't see much justification in having more than three APS-C DSLR models... one each for entry level, mid range and high end. So Canon certainly has room to trim and consolidate, depending on its strategy.

With Ricoh / Pentax, funding and resources pretty much dictate a narrow range of bodies. But, as you point out, that's no bad thing

two is enough. F-I-R-M-W-A-R-E and long product generation is the future.

[BigMackCam]

it is all just getting started, aps-c is next after m4/3... you guys can pretend all you want, but i see the numbers reflecting a trend that pentax cannot afford to ignore...

I don't think anyone's pretending, here - I'm certainly not. That would suggest we know the writing's on the wall but don't want to admit it. Instead, we just have different opinions

why do you think sony is so willing to rest on their 67% share of the full frame mirrorless market? let the others fail. it works, at least for awhile.

Sony has the advantage of of being the only mature full-frame MILC platform at present. As such, the lens catalogue is well populated (for a long time it wasn't thus) and the company has had plenty of time to establish a user base who've already invested in FE glass and system accessories.

As for resting on it's 67% share of full frame mirrorless market (I haven't verified that number - I'm taking you at your word), it really shouldn't. Before too long, Canon and Nikon will have their native mirrorless lens ranges fleshed out - and then Sony will have serious competition at the high end of full frame mirrorless, which it never had before. Perhaps it'll develop better features and performance to compete, or maybe it'll go down the pricing route? Of course, it'll still have a fairly unique proposition at the lower (older) end of the model range based largely on price, and in the APS-C mirrorless market with cameras using the same native E-mount. But even that could be a temporary situation... Who knows what Nikon and Canon will develop next, and Panasonic are due to join the melee...

And then there's little old Pentax... standing to one side, watching the big boys fight amongst themselves while it slowly and methodically develops products that cater first and foremost to its existing user base, and attracting a few defectors from the other brands based on a favourable quality / features / price value-proposition.

two is enough. F-I-R-M-W-A-R-E and long product generation is the future.

It's an interesting idea, but a tricky one... Firmware would need to be a revenue-generating product in its own right - either on a discrete ("pay $xxx for the latest feature set") or subscription ("pay $x per month and get every new feature as and when it is released") basis. Even then, there will come a point three or four years after initial release where the review sites, press and buying public will question the sense in buying "old" technology that, despite having new features due to firmware updates, still has an older sensor and other hardware limitations that can't be improved upon simply through firmware...

I cite as an example the Yi M1 mirrorless. Many thought that the company's commitment to firmware updates would translate to regular and significant incremental improvements over the original release... But, while firmware updates kept coming (albeit less frequently than hoped), that camera is (and always will be) increasingly limited by the sensor, hardware architecture and physical interface