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01-16-2019, 04:41 PM - 2 Likes   #661
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QuoteOriginally posted by punkrachmaninov Quote
do i get an assistant?
I think that your original offer and the suggestion from @BigMackCam are both excellent ideas. The data, analysis and presentation here wouldn't need to be done urgently, so perhaps you could stretch it out.

01-16-2019, 04:41 PM - 1 Like   #662
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QuoteOriginally posted by punkrachmaninov Quote
do i get an assistant?
Ha ha I'm afraid not. Staffing budget around here is even tighter than Ricoh Imaging's
01-16-2019, 04:45 PM - 1 Like   #663
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Ha ha I'm afraid not. Staffing budget around here is even tighter than Ricoh Imaging's
...but they are in third place in japan.

maybe i will get around to starting an open-source spreadsheet that displays comprehensive technological progress in the digital camera industry, year over year. spreadsheets give me tremendous pleasure. my agent will kill me when petapixel runs it; "pentaxians make spreadsheet of camera progress"...

Last edited by punkrachmaninov; 01-16-2019 at 04:51 PM.
01-16-2019, 04:45 PM   #664
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
This data says just as much (or more) about consumers moving upmarket. An average price won't go up if consumers keep buying products that are priced below average (and, by mathematical necessity, there must always be some products at a below-average price point). Similarly, even if camera makers put out ever more expensive cameras, the average price won't change unless consumers move upmarket, too, and buy the high-end.

It's ILC consumers that have moved upmarket and the makers have followed. Or, more likely, many of the downmarket ILC buyers have disappeared. The low-end ILCs don't offer enough of a performance/feature boost over everyone's smartphone to justify buying.
The data in the graph come from shipments and shipment prices, not retail sales and retail prices. There is no certainty that the corresponding pieces of equipment, pushed by manufacturers through the distribution channels, were all sold without any being discounted, sometimes heavily discounted, sometimes not sold at all. They therefore reflect the will of manufacturers to move upmarket (including by cutting off the low-end tail) more than an ILC consumers' move.


Last edited by Mistral75; 01-16-2019 at 04:54 PM.
01-16-2019, 05:33 PM   #665
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I dunno... my oldest SLR with live view is from the 1930s or so, and it has more resolution than my K1...

My oldest MILC is from the 1950s, but it does have a really slick optical viewfinder that goes on the accessory shoe (I can’t afford a Leica)...

So yeah, my Pentaxes seem pretty behind the times

-Eric
01-16-2019, 05:50 PM - 1 Like   #666
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
I dunno... my oldest SLR with live view is from the 1930s or so, and it has more resolution than my K1...
What kind of sensor did it have?

Comparing shots from my Super Program using a 1980's 'Kodachrome 25' sensor show that even my 12mp Q-7 gives sharper images.
I think Pentax is doing well.
01-16-2019, 05:55 PM - 1 Like   #667
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QuoteOriginally posted by punkrachmaninov Quote
the best example of this would be the sordid history of the SD vs XQD card debacle... why would we collectively even want or prefer to use the SD format anymore? it is the inferior format, it isn't future proof, and it has been obsolete when compared to the XQD (cfast) format for years... since before they even went pci-express. if Pentax released the exact same camera as the KP with a single XQD card slot it would be up to them to decide the buffer, not the sd card format... potentially a company such as pentax could release a camera with the intent to develop based on a plebiscite of it's own purchasers!?!
so, you want us to join the Nikon users, worrying from moment to moment where they will get their next memory card, and hoping that their current one doesn't break in the meantime? Yes, the Nikon users I chat with elsewhere are worried about supplies of this proprietary memory device with limited suppliers and with a tendency to fail.

01-16-2019, 06:01 PM - 1 Like   #668
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
apparently the Nikon FTZ doesn't support screw-drive AF
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
No, it does not. Thanks to an actuator it supports the lenses with a mechanical aperture control system but it doesn't include any autofocus motor. The latest Nikkor lenses relying on screw-drive AF were launched in 2000.
My point was that there is no reason to expect a Pentax adapter to deliver more functionality than Nikon is able to deliver, and lacking screw-drive capability would cause many here to wave a large "NO SALE" sign
01-16-2019, 06:09 PM - 1 Like   #669
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The data in the graph come from shipments and shipment prices, not retail sales and retail prices. There is no certainty that the corresponding pieces of equipment, pushed by manufacturers through the distribution channels, were all sold without any being discounted, sometimes heavily discounted, sometimes not sold at all. They therefore reflect the will of manufacturers to move upmarket (including by cutting off the low-end tail) more than an ILC consumers' move.
Color me skeptical.

Sure, some models and some inventories might get discounted, but on-average, the retailer's average selling prices must be higher than the maker's average shipping prices or the retailer will soon die.

And if you are suggesting that camera makers are fudging their shipping prices (claiming they shipped a $5,000 camera knowing it will get discounted to $2,000 and that the retailer will only pay a fraction of the $2,000), then neither the low average prices of yesteryear nor the high average prices of today have any meaning. The entire curve could only reflect changes in fictional prices that have little to do actual average sales prices.

Moreover, I've not heard of any shortages of cheap the Canon T6 Rebels. They are the best selling ILCs on Amazon which would be impossible if Canon were cutting off the low-end tail. If anything, it's the higher-end newly launched cameras that seem to be in short supply because consumers have moved up-market faster than camera makers have.
01-16-2019, 06:33 PM - 1 Like   #670
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
so, you want us to join the Nikon users, worrying from moment to moment where they will get their next memory card, and hoping that their current one doesn't break in the meantime? Yes, the Nikon users I chat with elsewhere are worried about supplies of this proprietary memory device with limited suppliers and with a tendency to fail.
what? they are widely regarded as safer than safe, and they are readily available...
01-16-2019, 07:22 PM - 1 Like   #671
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QuoteOriginally posted by punkrachmaninov Quote
what? they are widely regarded as safer than safe, and they are readily available...
Not what I've been hearing from Nikon users.
01-16-2019, 08:40 PM - 1 Like   #672
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QuoteOriginally posted by punkrachmaninov Quote
what? they are widely regarded as safer than safe, and they are readily available...
Not so fast there Punko, here is a quote from Fstoppers that say a few things about your wondorous XQD card that might turn people off to these cards. Fstoppers 10.09/2018 Too Many Different Versions "Every format has updates. SD cards been have through six upgrades, with a seventh on the way. What’s notable here is that most SD Cards are backwards and forwards compatible with any SD card slot, unless the task requires seriously fast speeds. This isn’t quite the case for XQD cards." So all ain't well with your miracle card.

Here is a link to the full article
https://fstoppers.com/business/why-im-not-investing-xqd-memory-cards-yet-295297
Even Sony is abandoning them!

Last edited by Larrymc; 01-16-2019 at 08:46 PM.
01-16-2019, 08:49 PM - 2 Likes   #673
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
My point was that there is no reason to expect a Pentax adapter to deliver more functionality than Nikon is able to deliver, and lacking screw-drive capability would cause many here to wave a large "NO SALE" sign
There is one such reason though: the latest Nikkor lens with screw-drive autofocus was announced in August 2000, eighteen years ago, whilst the latest K-mount Pentax lens with screw-drive autofocus was announced in October 2013, five years ago. This is also the reason why any and all K-mount Pentax cameras still include a focus motor whilst many Nikon cameras lack this feature.

On Nikon's side, it's 'willing to deliver' or 'needing to deliver', not 'being able to deliver'. Sony are able, therefore all manufacturers are.
01-16-2019, 09:15 PM - 2 Likes   #674
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
(...) I've not heard of any shortages of cheap the Canon T6 Rebels. They are the best selling ILCs on Amazon which would be impossible if Canon were cutting off the low-end tail. (...)
Totally true. It's the main reason why the 2018 average unit shipment price of mirrorless cameras (64,291 JPY) is 44% higher than that of DSLRs (44,779 JPY) and why the yearly increase in that average unit shipment price is much higher for mirrorless cameras than for DSLRs.

Canon, and Nikon to a lesser extent, are flooding the market with entry-level DSLRs. Apart from those, they are playing the same 'pump up the prices' game as their competitors.

Ricoh Imaging are no strangers to that game either: in Europe, the launch price of the KP (€1,299) was higher than that of the K-3 II (€999) and equal to it in the US ($1,099.95 for both), in spite of the former being a mid-range camera and the latter a high-end model.
01-16-2019, 10:47 PM - 1 Like   #675
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Not so fast there Punko, here is a quote from Fstoppers that say a few things about your wondorous XQD card that might turn people off to these cards. Fstoppers 10.09/2018 Too Many Different Versions "Every format has updates. SD cards been have through six upgrades, with a seventh on the way. What’s notable here is that most SD Cards are backwards and forwards compatible with any SD card slot, unless the task requires seriously fast speeds. This isn’t quite the case for XQD cards." So all ain't well with your miracle card.

Here is a link to the full article
Why I?m Not Investing in XQD Memory Cards Yet | Fstoppers
Even Sony is abandoning them!
good grief. yes. the nikon end-users are right! back to the SD card!! quickly, while we still have our sd cards!?!

the good people at sony are abandoning the pxw-fs7 ii also... the whole sony professional line is dead because they messed up and used those pesky to understand, perceived to be proprietary until 2017 xqd cards... they are going to have to try to find the drawing board, as unfortunately the only memory they had of it was lost in an xqd crash. the whole venice line is toast too. all poorly designed trash.

it us unfathomable that nikon banked the future of the extremely proud corporation on the cursed, listless xqd format. they must all be drunk on spec sheets, someone is going to light the camera on fire!

Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-17-2019 at 01:49 AM. Reason: Minor vulgarity
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