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01-17-2019, 01:17 AM   #676
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Ricoh Imaging are no strangers to that game either: in Europe, the launch price of the KP (€1,299) was higher than that of the K-3 II (€999) and equal to it in the US ($1,099.95 for both), in spite of the former being a mid-range camera and the latter a high-end model.
Anyway, Ricoh are capable of releasing a mirror-less system because mirror-less isn't revolutionary tech. A simple firmware update that locks the mirror-up on the K1 is already making it mirrorless. It is also possible to modify the firmware and remove the mechanical part of the mirror to make the camera cheaper , that a second step. EVF: is an alternate LV micro display and a couple of lenses and the proximity sensor, that's easy to do. On sensor PDAF is more challenging but Ricoh already have work on that on the K70 or GRIII. And by the way, the GRIII is a mirrorless camera. Mirrorless camera tech has been there for a while, it's no more difficult than making a new DSLR.

01-17-2019, 02:12 AM - 6 Likes   #677
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SD cards are fine. They're small, relatively inexpensive, ubiquitous, the existing ones have capacities more than large enough (512GB on the market, and a 1TB card was just announced) and speeds several steps up from what Pentax can currently handle.

XDQ cards are fine, too. A very nice, more "pro" format, a bit faster than SDs - what's not to like?
Except it's not all rosy:
- right now I can only buy Sony XQD cards (in the U.S. I see that Delkin is also available). I have nothing against Sony, but I wouldn't like betting on a single supplier. Oh, and only 120GB and 240GB versions are available around here - 2 x 120GB would cost me as much as the GR III will.
- they are more expensive, a notch above the most expensive SD card
- no way you can just enter a random electronics store and buy an XQD, if you find out your storage capacity is lacking during a trip
- they're larger, which means it's more difficult to fit without increasing the camera size (especially 2 of them). Do we want larger cameras?
- they're only a good fit for higher end cameras. Which means, a set of SDs for some cameras, a set of XQD for the high-end.
Note that the D850 has 1 XQD slot and 1 SD slot... so if you shoot on 2 cards at once, you need 2 sets of cards for a single camera.

One shouldn't make a circus because Pentax choose a fine option instead of another.
01-17-2019, 02:49 AM - 3 Likes   #678
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Anyway, Ricoh are capable of releasing a mirror-less system because mirror-less isn't revolutionary tech. A simple firmware update that locks the mirror-up on the K1 is already making it mirrorless. It is also possible to modify the firmware and remove the mechanical part of the mirror to make the camera cheaper , that a second step. EVF: is an alternate LV micro display and a couple of lenses and the proximity sensor, that's easy to do. On sensor PDAF is more challenging but Ricoh already have work on that on the K70 or GRIII. And by the way, the GRIII is a mirrorless camera. Mirrorless camera tech has been there for a while, it's no more difficult than making a new DSLR.
Biz:
The KP is only mid-range to the extent it's rated for 100,000 shutter clicks and a single SD slot--everything else is flagship: magnesium body, new sensor, faster Auto focus, adjustable grips, High IQ (IISO/4th gen processor), compact size, etc. The buffer is average, but is more than adequate for most enthusiasts. Perhaps a KP Mark ii would be a way to start with continuing evolutionary improvements of a well executed design.
What many of us here at the Forum refused to acknowledge that 40 to 50 years ago, millions of casual shooters used SLRs. Today, we are the few, the proud, the trend buckers who want esoteric results, care about photography as a medium, hobby or calling. NEWSFLASH: we as enthusiasts are shrinking. RICOH is a for profit company. The cost of re-tooling a line of new models versus the small (in relative terms) group of followers who will purchase the new offering(s) is a cost-benefit analysis. Sears isn't dying because their products they suck, it's the fact that the market place changed while they stayed to same old formulas.
Pentax realized the KP at $1,200 was not a best seller, at $700-800, it is sold out and on back order. The market place dictates. I will say this, if RICOH makes money from Pentax and/or its engineers produce cross-over technologies to their imaging sector, then it will remain viable. Pentax does well considering their primary sales are word of mouth and through a dozen or so national retailers. That may or may not be enough.Pentax has also suffered having been a 'step-child' or lowly subsidiary of several large conglomerates. After ASAHI, several companies, including Honeywell, Hoya, and Ricoh have owned the brand. That is not a prescription for long-term growth.
The bottom line: as long as RICOH sees the benefit of good-will in the Pentax Brand, as long as we, the enthusiasts continue shooting our Pentax Cameras and lenses, perhaps it will survive.
01-17-2019, 03:02 AM - 1 Like   #679
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
SD cards are fine. They're small, relatively inexpensive, ubiquitous, the existing ones have capacities more than large enough (512GB on the market, and a 1TB card was just announced) and speeds several steps up from what Pentax can currently handle.

XDQ cards are fine, too. A very nice, more "pro" format, a bit faster than SDs - what's not to like?
Except it's not all rosy:
- right now I can only buy Sony XQD cards (in the U.S. I see that Delkin is also available). I have nothing against Sony, but I wouldn't like betting on a single supplier. Oh, and only 120GB and 240GB versions are available around here - 2 x 120GB would cost me as much as the GR III will.
- they are more expensive, a notch above the most expensive SD card
- no way you can just enter a random electronics store and buy an XQD, if you find out your storage capacity is lacking during a trip
- they're larger, which means it's more difficult to fit without increasing the camera size (especially 2 of them). Do we want larger cameras?
- they're only a good fit for higher end cameras. Which means, a set of SDs for some cameras, a set of XQD for the high-end.
Note that the D850 has 1 XQD slot and 1 SD slot... so if you shoot on 2 cards at once, you need 2 sets of cards for a single camera.

One shouldn't make a circus because Pentax choose a fine option instead of another.
Great points.



01-17-2019, 03:12 AM - 2 Likes   #680
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
The KP is only mid-range to the extent it's rated for 100,000 shutter clicks and a single SD slot--everything else is flagship: magnesium body, new sensor, faster Auto focus, adjustable grips, High IQ (IISO/4th gen processor), compact size, etc. The buffer is average, but is more than adequate for most enthusiasts.
The KP is clearly an outstanding camera. But, the things that would make it a flagship - the things that are missing for it to be considered as such - are:

- increased shutter life
- higher maximum shutter speed
- twin SD slots
- bigger buffer (more important where sports, kids, birds in flight are concerned)
- IR remote control
- arguably, a top LCD (many of us still use and value this - I miss having it on my A7 MkII)
- better battery life from the internal battery

Personally, I also prefer a bigger, chunkier body - but this really is just personal preference, and in part due to the fact that I have big hands, with fingers that sometimes struggle just a little with arthritis

I definitely think the KP punches above its weight in most areas - and even has features which could be considered special on a flagship model. None of the items above are deal-breakers for most of us, but I do think without them the KP sits in the mid range bracket, albeit at the upper end
01-17-2019, 03:30 AM - 2 Likes   #681
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
SD cards are fine. They're small, relatively inexpensive, ubiquitous, the existing ones have capacities more than large enough (512GB on the market, and a 1TB card was just announced) and speeds several steps up from what Pentax can currently handle.

XDQ cards are fine, too. A very nice, more "pro" format, a bit faster than SDs - what's not to like?
Except it's not all rosy:
- right now I can only buy Sony XQD cards (in the U.S. I see that Delkin is also available). I have nothing against Sony, but I wouldn't like betting on a single supplier. Oh, and only 120GB and 240GB versions are available around here - 2 x 120GB would cost me as much as the GR III will.
- they are more expensive, a notch above the most expensive SD card
- no way you can just enter a random electronics store and buy an XQD, if you find out your storage capacity is lacking during a trip
- they're larger, which means it's more difficult to fit without increasing the camera size (especially 2 of them). Do we want larger cameras?
- they're only a good fit for higher end cameras. Which means, a set of SDs for some cameras, a set of XQD for the high-end.
Note that the D850 has 1 XQD slot and 1 SD slot... so if you shoot on 2 cards at once, you need 2 sets of cards for a single camera.

One shouldn't make a circus because Pentax choose a fine option instead of another.
Good summary and points.

I'd also add that many of us already have PCs with built in SD card readers, and that's my preferred method for transferring photos. I don't like having to use cables unless absolutely necessary, and I'm not a fan of wi-fi transfer for large batches of images. I could buy an XQD reader, but that's another accessory to buy and have lying around next to my laptop, or remember to pack in my laptop bag. I also have a significant stock of fast SDHC cards at 16, 32 and 64Gb sizes that I've acquired over the last few years. I'd prefer not to start buying new cards all over again.

None of which is to criticise the use of XQD in any way... But I'd personally prefer to stick with SDHC. In fact, given that I shoot multiple camera bodies, I wouldn't buy a new camera that required XQD cards - so I sincerely hope the K-3II replacement, if and when it arrives, uses SDHC.
01-17-2019, 03:40 AM - 2 Likes   #682
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
SD cards are fine. They're small, relatively inexpensive, ubiquitous, the existing ones have capacities more than large enough (512GB on the market, and a 1TB card was just announced) and speeds several steps up from what Pentax can currently handle.

XDQ cards are fine, too. A very nice, more "pro" format, a bit faster than SDs - what's not to like?
Except it's not all rosy:
- right now I can only buy Sony XQD cards (in the U.S. I see that Delkin is also available). I have nothing against Sony, but I wouldn't like betting on a single supplier. Oh, and only 120GB and 240GB versions are available around here - 2 x 120GB would cost me as much as the GR III will.
- they are more expensive, a notch above the most expensive SD card
- no way you can just enter a random electronics store and buy an XQD, if you find out your storage capacity is lacking during a trip
- they're larger, which means it's more difficult to fit without increasing the camera size (especially 2 of them). Do we want larger cameras?
- they're only a good fit for higher end cameras. Which means, a set of SDs for some cameras, a set of XQD for the high-end.
Note that the D850 has 1 XQD slot and 1 SD slot... so if you shoot on 2 cards at once, you need 2 sets of cards for a single camera.

One shouldn't make a circus because Pentax choose a fine option instead of another.
The big thing with Pentax is that they need to upgrade the version of SD Card they support. I would think they could move to SDHC or XC cards going forward and that would allow for a lot faster write speeds and would help with buffer clearing.

The biggest problem with the Z7 is that it is priced really high but still only has one card slot. This automatically eliminates it and the Z6 from much of the professional market. Many pros are just not willing to shoot with a camera that doesn't have two card slots. Sure, the chance of a card failing is low, but if you are shooting a wedding, a hopefully once in a lifetime event, and you lose a 120 GB card with all or half your images on it, there is no way to fix the situation. Video is probably different and for that, you probably just want the fastest write speeds to a card that you can find. I agree that the cost of the cards is high, but if you are spending 3500 dollars on a camera, you probably are OK with getting an additional accessory that costs a couple hundred.

01-17-2019, 03:53 AM - 1 Like   #683
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
What kind of sensor did it have?

Comparing shots from my Super Program using a 1980's 'Kodachrome 25' sensor show that even my 12mp Q-7 gives sharper images.
I think Pentax is doing well.
10x12.5 cm sheet film
And it’s not sharp... the lenses are a little behind the times...

-Eric
01-17-2019, 03:58 AM - 1 Like   #684
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Thank you, Mountain Vision and Mike.

Good point about the SD readers.

Maybe we could sum it up as:
- the SD is way more consumer friendly, for the reasons stated.
- XQD is better suited when a higher transfer speed is needed - as in pro action shooting, or high quality 4K video. Neither are Pentax' domains.
Note that "higher" doesn't mean "higher than Pentax"! Pentax is far from maxing out UHS-I... while the UHS-II capable D850 can reach 150-200MB/sec with the faster cards.

Rondec, absolutely! Using a faster SD mode is the obvious solution.
Even supporting UHS-I SDR-104 speeds would be a big step forward, effectively doubling the write speed (the D850 can reach 80MB/sec+ with UHS-I cards). I'd be happy if they do at least this.
Then there's UHS-II.

Link to the D850 measurements:
https://alikgriffin.com/best-memory-cards-nikon-d850/
01-17-2019, 04:11 AM - 2 Likes   #685
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People have been clamoring here for a K3 II replacement and one of the big problems with the KP is that it only has one card slot, making it not useful to the pro folks who want/need two card slots. I can't begin to imagine the out cry here if Pentax released a 3500 dollar camera with only one card slot. And then claimed it was because they couldn't fit in a second because of size constraints. And then told us that they had gone with a new card version that wasn't backwards compatible and would require both new (expensive) cards and new readers.

I, at the least, would be pretty upset.
01-17-2019, 04:14 AM   #686
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
The bottom line: as long as RICOH sees the benefit of good-will in the Pentax Brand, as long as we, the enthusiasts continue shooting our Pentax Cameras and lenses, perhaps it will survive.
Thanks for expressing your point of view. Beside, I responded in previous post that Ricoh can make a MILC system if they wanted to. Because I find that there is a good amount of negativity expressed in a brand specific forum, I would like to understand the reason why this happens. For me, there are some aspects of Pentax that can be pointed out for improvements, but on the other hand I feel that general criticism is odd. I wonder if some people talking bad about Pentax are former employees of Pentax/Ricoh coming back here for a revenge after being laid-off by Ricoh or something similar.
01-17-2019, 05:07 AM   #687
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I wonder if some people talking bad about Pentax are former employees of Pentax/Ricoh coming back here for a revenge after being laid-off by Ricoh or something similar.
Perhaps cabin fever
01-17-2019, 06:48 AM - 4 Likes   #688
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Thanks for expressing your point of view. Beside, I responded in previous post that Ricoh can make a MILC system if they wanted to. Because I find that there is a good amount of negativity expressed in a brand specific forum, I would like to understand the reason why this happens. For me, there are some aspects of Pentax that can be pointed out for improvements, but on the other hand I feel that general criticism is odd. I wonder if some people talking bad about Pentax are former employees of Pentax/Ricoh coming back here for a revenge after being laid-off by Ricoh or something similar.
I just really think there are two strands that you see. One is folks who have decided that Pentax should do something different from what Pentax has typically focused on. These are photographers who want Pentax to do better in video, go with a mirrorless design and new mount, or some such thing. The other group or people who are satisfied with SLR designs, but just want to see Pentax release more gear. They often have a particular thing they are looking for -- a K3 II sequel, a DFA *85 f1.4, etc -- and are simply bothered at the slow pace of releases.

I understand the second group better. It is the first group that bothers me because Pentax has never focused on video, has never indicated that they are interested in doing full frame mirrorless with a new mount or any such things. To me, it is akin to marrying a wife and then telling her that you are bothered that she is five feet six inches tall and has red hair when she has had these qualities all along.
01-17-2019, 06:50 AM - 2 Likes   #689
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I just really think there are two strands that you see. One is folks who have decided that Pentax should do something different from what Pentax has typically focused on.
Sure. I was also referring to folks who don't even take photographs. I was wondering why they come here and bring about anything negative about Pentax.
01-17-2019, 06:53 AM - 4 Likes   #690
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Sure. I was also referring to folks who don't even take photographs. I was wondering why they come here and bring about anything negative about Pentax.
Of course. The oddest ones to me are the people who have bought non-Pentax gear but still come back to tell us (a) how great their new cameras are and (b) how Pentax should make a camera like the one they have (A9, D750, etc).

As you have mentioned in other threads, when these people post images they often look almost exactly the same as the images they had before switching.
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