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03-01-2019, 11:19 PM   #421
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the thing with these mirrorless ff 1300€, they are also trying to make it more easy for aps-c shooters to chime in. sure, use your old lenses, but these quite expensive ones are waiting. Bad thing for those new shiny ones is that Takumars will outlast them.

what is camera, it is nothing with out great lens on front of it. Even with greatest technology, lot of guys are gonna be dissapointed. and old photog. willstill take pictures of same thingthey have been shooting for ages. there is just more possibilities in camera than ever. Reminds me of internet, but what has changed?

Soccer mums will have better tools, great. But problem still is that getting great kit even with smaller body with out too much hastle, will take more than 2500. that 24-260 mm kit is gonna be popular on bookshelves.

03-02-2019, 02:59 AM - 3 Likes   #422
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After his third seminar with Tetsuya Iwasaki Kimio Tanaka posted a series of tweets, beginning an hour and a half ago or so. I'm sorry, I have to run some errands, therefore I won't be able to work on translating them as properly as possible. I will copy and paste the Google translation instead, with some quick enhancements. If somebody whose Japanese is superior to mine can have a look at them and provide a proper translation...

The hours below are JST (= UTC+9). As you'll see, the main topics are Q and 645.

17:25
本日のCP+2019リコーブースで、午前中にTweetした「あの質問」を担当者に投げてみました。 ① 「Q」はどうするんですか? ② 「645デジタル」はこれからどうするんですか? この2点です。
CP + 2019 today. Ricoh booth threw a "That question" Tweet in the morning to the person in charge. ① What do you do with "Q"? ② What will you do with "645 Digital" in the future? These are the two points.

17:26
① いま中断状態ですが、やめると決めたわけではない。「横に置いて」様子を見ている状況。
② 開発は継続している。時間は少しかかりそうですが製品化を目指す。

壇上で進行をかねながらの「質問」だったので「回答」をしっかりと聞く余裕がなく、やや曖昧ですが、ま、そんな内容でした。
① It is now in a suspended state, but we did not decide to quit. It's "on the back burner" and we are watching the situation.
② Development continues. It will take some time but we aim for commercialization.

As it was a "question" while not going on the stage, I could not afford to listen firmly to "answer", it was somewhat ambiguous, but the content was such.

17:28
意外だったのは「Qはやめない」との返事を聞いたことです。「えっ?」でした。 ぼくはてっきり「もう二度と作らないだろう」と思ってましたから(先日、否定しましたがスマンでした)。でも、たぶん可能性は30%以下のような気もしないでもないです。もちろん、ぼくとしては「ぜひ、再開」して欲しい。
The surprising thing is that I heard a reply saying "we will not stop Q". It was "What?" I thought "they will never make it again" (I denied it the other day, but it was Suman). But the probability is like 30% or less. Of course, I want them to resume by all means.

17:28
「645デジタル」のほうは、少し前に「動き出している」ということを"ある筋"から聞いていたので、それほど意外性はなかったです。
センサーサイズの小さな「ミラーレスカメラ」と大型センサーの「ディス イズ 一眼レフカメラ」の"光"が少し見えただけでもウレシイです。
As for "645 digital", I heard a while ago from "a certain line" that "it is moving", so it was not so surprising.
Since I saw a little "light" of "mirrorless camera" with a small sensor size and "This is SLR camera" with large sensor I'm happy.

18:01
追伸。
「Qはやめない」とのPENTAXの回答について、否定的な捉え方や、販売上の方便的な回答、と受け取っている人がいるようですが、政治家の回答じゃないのですからもう少し前向きに受け取りたいです。将来性30%以下でしょうけど「可能性」はありそう。小さくても夢があっていいじゃないですか。
Postscript.
There seems to be someone who receives negative answers about the answer of PENTAX that "they will not stop Q" and a convenient answer on sale, but it's not a politician's answer, so I received it a little more positively I want to. The future will be less than 30%, but there seems to be a "possibility". Even if [the probability] is small, one can have a dream.
03-02-2019, 03:08 AM   #423
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
the thing with these mirrorless ff 1300€, they are also trying to make it more easy for aps-c shooters to chime in. sure, use your old lenses, but these quite expensive ones are waiting. Bad thing for those new shiny ones is that Takumars will outlast them.
FF camera price decrease, but FF lenses price keep increasing. So APS-C is still the best choice for many.
Moreover, Canon RP at 1300€ is a bad information relayed by the rumors, the real retail price is 1499€ (in France), which is the price we found new K-1 mark I now.
03-02-2019, 03:09 AM   #424
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One can always dream.

03-02-2019, 05:09 AM   #425
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
FF camera price decrease, but FF lenses price keep increasing. So APS-C is still the best choice for many.
Moreover, Canon RP at 1300€ is a bad information relayed by the rumors, the real retail price is 1499€ (in France), which is the price we found new K-1 mark I now.
Exactly, I think it is even more at Finland. Both. APS-C will be better in lens prize if you look at similar FoV. BUT, FF it kind a thing. If and when people buy sales men speech of jadi jadi, bling, WOW and Yaiks...they will walk out with something amazing that they did not think of buying at the first place. I thik that these new mounts will work at best when used with correct mount, even if you can use something else with it too.

That is the way to lure you in the trap.

---------- Post added 03-02-19 at 14:13 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
After his third seminar with Tetsuya Iwasaki Kimio Tanaka posted a series of tweets, beginning an hour and a half ago or so. I'm sorry, I have to run some errands, therefore I won't be able to work on translating them as properly as possible. I will copy and paste the Google translation instead, with some quick enhancements. If somebody whose Japanese is superior to mine can have a look at them and provide a proper translation...

The hours below are JST (= UTC+9). As you'll see, the main topics are Q and 645.

17:25
本日のCP+2019リコーブースで、午前中にTweetした「あの質問」を担当者に投げてみました。 ① 「Q」はどうするんですか? ② 「645デジタル」はこれからどうするんですか? この2点です。
CP + 2019 today. Ricoh booth threw a "That question" Tweet in the morning to the person in charge. ① What do you do with "Q"? ② What will you do with "645 Digital" in the future? These are the two points.

17:26
① いま中断状態ですが、やめると決めたわけではない。「横に置いて」様子を見ている状況。
② 開発は継続している。時間は少しかかりそうですが製品化を目指す。

壇上で進行をかねながらの「質問」だったので「回答」をしっかりと聞く余裕がなく、やや曖昧ですが、ま、そんな内容でした。
① It is now in a suspended state, but we did not decide to quit. It's "on the back burner" and we are watching the situation.
② Development continues. It will take some time but we aim for commercialization.

As it was a "question" while not going on the stage, I could not afford to listen firmly to "answer", it was somewhat ambiguous, but the content was such.

17:28
意外だったのは「Qはやめない」との返事を聞いたことです。「えっ?」でした。 ぼくはてっきり「もう二度と作らないだろう」と思ってましたから(先日、否定しましたがスマンでした)。でも、たぶん可能性は30%以下のような気もしないでもないです。もちろん、ぼくとしては「ぜひ、再開」して欲しい。
The surprising thing is that I heard a reply saying "we will not stop Q". It was "What?" I thought "they will never make it again" (I denied it the other day, but it was Suman). But the probability is like 30% or less. Of course, I want them to resume by all means.

17:28
「645デジタル」のほうは、少し前に「動き出している」ということを"ある筋"から聞いていたので、それほど意外性はなかったです。
センサーサイズの小さな「ミラーレスカメラ」と大型センサーの「ディス イズ 一眼レフカメラ」の"光"が少し見えただけでもウレシイです。
As for "645 digital", I heard a while ago from "a certain line" that "it is moving", so it was not so surprising.
Since I saw a little "light" of "mirrorless camera" with a small sensor size and "This is SLR camera" with large sensor I'm happy.

18:01
追伸。
「Qはやめない」とのPENTAXの回答について、否定的な捉え方や、販売上の方便的な回答、と受け取っている人がいるようですが、政治家の回答じゃないのですからもう少し前向きに受け取りたいです。将来性30%以下でしょうけど「可能性」はありそう。小さくても夢があっていいじゃないですか。
Postscript.
There seems to be someone who receives negative answers about the answer of PENTAX that "they will not stop Q" and a convenient answer on sale, but it's not a politician's answer, so I received it a little more positively I want to. The future will be less than 30%, but there seems to be a "possibility". Even if [the probability] is small, one can have a dream.
Thank you for update, little cryptic, but comfirms that there is things going on and maybe mirrorless will emerge at some point?
03-02-2019, 06:09 AM - 1 Like   #426
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
(...)

Thank you for update, little cryptic, but confirms that there is things going on and maybe mirrorless will emerge at some point?
To make a long story short: according to these tweets, the line of the party is as follows.
  1. The Q line-up is suspended but not terminated.
  2. 645 digital: developments continue. It will take a while but the goal is to bring a new camera to market.

Regarding the Q, Kimio Tanaka is both surprised (he thought the line-up had been abandoned) and happy; however, he estimates at less than 30% the probability of new Q products.

Regarding the digital 645, Tetsuya Iwasaki's comments are consistent with what Kimio Tanaka heard before from other people, therefore he is not surprised.
03-02-2019, 06:19 AM   #427
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
To make a long story short: according to these tweets, the line of the party is as follows.
  1. The Q line-up is suspended but not terminated.
  2. 645 digital: developments continue. It will take a while but the goal is to bring a new camera to market.

Regarding the Q, Kimio Tanaka is both surprised (he thought the line-up had been abandoned) and happy; however, he estimates at less than 30% the probability of new Q products.

Regarding the digital 645, Tetsuya Iwasaki's comments are consistent with what Kimio Tanaka heard before from other people, therefore he is not surprised.
Thanks!


Alright. that made little more sense.
03-02-2019, 06:57 AM   #428
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
To make a long story short: according to these tweets, the line of the party is as follows.
  1. The Q line-up is suspended but not terminated.
  2. 645 digital: developments continue. It will take a while but the goal is to bring a new camera to market.

Regarding the Q, Kimio Tanaka is both surprised (he thought the line-up had been abandoned) and happy; however, he estimates at less than 30% the probability of new Q products.

Regarding the digital 645, Tetsuya Iwasaki's comments are consistent with what Kimio Tanaka heard before from other people, therefore he is not surprised.
It sounds like they are low on priority, so nothing to expect this year.

03-02-2019, 10:24 AM   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
the thing with these mirrorless ff 1300€, they are also trying to make it more easy for aps-c shooters to chime in. sure, use your old lenses, but these quite expensive ones are waiting. Bad thing for those new shiny ones is that Takumars will outlast them.

what is camera, it is nothing with out great lens on front of it. Even with greatest technology, lot of guys are gonna be dissapointed. and old photog. willstill take pictures of same thingthey have been shooting for ages. there is just more possibilities in camera than ever. Reminds me of internet, but what has changed?

Soccer mums will have better tools, great. But problem still is that getting great kit even with smaller body with out too much hastle, will take more than 2500. that 24-260 mm kit is gonna be popular on bookshelves.
The internet 25 years ago was much better imo. While not perfect, there seemed to be far less antagonists and trolls, porn, commercialization and sales, and other junk. Far more information and politeness... I remember back then, the internet was still a luxury... at least here in the US. So the non-technical savvy man (or kid) wasn't really on it.. yet. But, on the other hand, the speed was terribly slow. So trade offs...

I think all these current mirrorless cameras will be dirt cheap in a few years.. like the next generation of computers back when computer speed was doubling or more per gen. Or those D3x00 style bodies.. They made so many and churned out so many gens so quickly that there was an overabundance.

I'm not bothered by disappointment by those that expected the camera to do the heavy lifting... that comes in most fields. Just more interested in seeing how the market itself plays mirrorless in terms of what manufacturers offer vs what is being bought.

Perhaps nice bargains second hand in the next few years?
03-02-2019, 12:11 PM   #430
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
The internet 25 years ago was much better imo. While not perfect, there seemed to be far less antagonists and trolls, porn, commercialization and sales, and other junk. Far more information and politeness... I remember back then, the internet was still a luxury... at least here in the US. So the non-technical savvy man (or kid) wasn't really on it.. yet. But, on the other hand, the speed was terribly slow. So trade offs...

I think all these current mirrorless cameras will be dirt cheap in a few years.. like the next generation of computers back when computer speed was doubling or more per gen. Or those D3x00 style bodies.. They made so many and churned out so many gens so quickly that there was an overabundance.

I'm not bothered by disappointment by those that expected the camera to do the heavy lifting... that comes in most fields. Just more interested in seeing how the market itself plays mirrorless in terms of what manufacturers offer vs what is being bought.

Perhaps nice bargains second hand in the next few years?
It is all about you gain some and loose some. I'm going to wait with open mind.
03-02-2019, 01:47 PM - 2 Likes   #431
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Thanks Mistral75, google translation is sort of impressive isn't it? I remember how horrible these things were as recently as late 2000's!
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
17:26
① It is now in a suspended state, but we did not decide to quit. It's "on the back burner" and we are watching the situation.
② Development continues. It will take some time but we aim for commercialization.

As it was a "question" while not going on the stage, I could not afford to listen firmly to "answer", it was somewhat ambiguous, but the content was such.
My translation for the last sentense would be
"As I had to chair/MC and ask questions at the same time on stage, I couldn't just focus on listening to his answer, so my memory is somewhat vague, but it was something like that."

QuoteQuote:
17:28
The surprising thing is that I heard a reply saying "we will not stop Q". It was "What?" I thought "they will never make it again" (I denied it the other day, but it was Suman). But the probability is like 30% or less. Of course, I want them to resume by all means.
"(I denied it the other day, but it was Suman)" part, suman is an expression of apology mostly for close friends. This is like him saying "sorry folks for saying there's no such thing as future for Q" (referring to his older tweet explained in this thread before).

30% is his guess, he's not really sure.
QuoteQuote:
As for "645 digital", I heard a while ago from "a certain line" that "it is moving", so it was not so surprising.
Since I saw a little "light" of "mirrorless camera" with a small sensor size and "This is SLR camera" with large sensor I'm happy.
He literally wrote "This is SLR camera" using Katakana (one of two phonetical character sets in Japan), so taking it literally, 645 series could be a pure embodiment of his ideal of SLR, something that represents what SLR has to offer.
QuoteQuote:
18:01
Postscript.
There seems to be someone who receives negative answers about the answer of PENTAX that "they will not stop Q" and a convenient answer on sale, but it's not a politician's answer, so I received it a little more positively I want to. The future will be less than 30%, but there seems to be a "possibility". Even if [the probability] is small, one can have a dream.
"Concerning PENTAX's answer that they won't give up on Q, some seem to be skeptical or see it as just sales tactics, a convenient lie, but hey we're not talking to politicians, I'd like to take it more positively than that. There seems to be the "possibility" (of resurrection of Q) though I'm guessing it's less than 30%. However small that might be we can still dream, isn't that a good thing?"

He is suggesting that he trusts PENTAX (or Iwasaki san specifically) in that what they tell is genuine, that they wouldn't lie just to keep their base happy, unlike politicians. Maybe small things like this are why he manages to keep a good relation with PENTAX.

BTW I watched one of his sessions on youtube, probably this was the first one on Thursday.

He didn't sound angry or anything though he acted pushy and confrontational at times (he's ご意見番 after all). He was trying really hard to get into deeper conversation about K-3II successor or whatever you call it without much success, and it was apparent Iwasaki-san isn't authorized to say anything substantial.

There were some interesting conversations though, e.g. about the body design (Tanaka-san knows it's in some sort of presentable form but they don't want to show anything), humorous but calculated way he pressed Iwasaki-san to say when it will be available or not, about mirrorless, about pixel shift resolution in GR3.

I don't have time to write about these things but maybe that's good as at least I'm not feeding trolls.

He sounded genuinely enthusiastic about the new 11-18mm lens (6:50). "I don't want to sound like a shill", but "REALLY great lens", "has plenty of resolving power", but "it's not about over-stressing sharpness, unlike trendy lenses of today", "nothing to dislike about the rendering", "shoot with it, you'll see what I mean", to him this is "the best PENTAX lens as of now". Iwasaki san said "Thank you very much, you've never said those things before, I'm surprised, I feel as if it was worth the long development time."
03-02-2019, 04:12 PM - 2 Likes   #432
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Thank you very much for your detailed message and your thorough translation of Kimio Tanaka's tweets. I had very little time this morning (my morning, your evening of yesterday), therefore I copied and pasted the Google translation and only had time to revise the translation of the first tweets -I'm sure you noticed that.

As for trolls: why, in your opinion, did I bury this in the 28th page of an endless thread?
03-02-2019, 07:34 PM - 3 Likes   #433
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I arrived at CP+ quite early and got near the front as the doors were opening, so to speak.
As the queue merged to the entrance it was interesting to notice that Ricoh's booth is situated immediately on the left of the entrance.

It has a small gallery of photos taken by the latest cameras including GRIII.
Lenses on display.
Small booth for the kp with a great cabinet full of old Pentax cameras.
A touch and try for lenses.
Another touch and try for the GR.
A small area to see demos of the Theta.
And small upstairs area for binoculars and the 560mm.

Not in the market for anything particular myself(apart from a black ME Super), I just took it all in.

It was easy to see the push Ricoh is giving the Theta and GR.
Shame there was no new pentax bodies to share the stage with, but Ricoh's presence is all about the GR.

The crowds werent big for the Pentax side of things, but the Theta got a lot of attention and the queue was long for the GR.
03-02-2019, 08:24 PM   #434
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
After his third seminar with Tetsuya Iwasaki Kimio Tanaka posted a series of tweets, beginning an hour and a half ago or so. I'm sorry, I have to run some errands, therefore I won't be able to work on translating them as properly as possible. I will copy and paste the Google translation instead, with some quick enhancements. If somebody whose Japanese is superior to mine can have a look at them and provide a proper translation...

The hours below are JST (= UTC+9). As you'll see, the main topics are Q and 645.

17:25
本日のCP+2019リコーブースで、午前中にTweetした「あの質問」を担当者に投げてみました。 ① 「Q」はどうするんですか? ② 「645デジタル」はこれからどうするんですか? この2点です。
CP + 2019 today. Ricoh booth threw a "That question" Tweet in the morning to the person in charge. ① What do you do with "Q"? ② What will you do with "645 Digital" in the future? These are the two points.

17:26
① いま中断状態ですが、やめると決めたわけではない。「横に置いて」様子を見ている状況。
② 開発は継続している。時間は少しかかりそうですが製品化を目指す。

壇上で進行をかねながらの「質問」だったので「回答」をしっかりと聞く余裕がなく、やや曖昧ですが、ま、そんな内容でした。
① It is now in a suspended state, but we did not decide to quit. It's "on the back burner" and we are watching the situation.
② Development continues. It will take some time but we aim for commercialization.

As it was a "question" while not going on the stage, I could not afford to listen firmly to "answer", it was somewhat ambiguous, but the content was such.

17:28
意外だったのは「Qはやめない」との返事を聞いたことです。「えっ?」でした。 ぼくはてっきり「もう二度と作らないだろう」と思ってましたから(先日、否定しましたがスマンでした)。でも、たぶん可能性は30%以下のような気もしないでもないです。もちろん、ぼくとしては「ぜひ、再開」して欲しい。
The surprising thing is that I heard a reply saying "we will not stop Q". It was "What?" I thought "they will never make it again" (I denied it the other day, but it was Suman). But the probability is like 30% or less. Of course, I want them to resume by all means.

17:28
「645デジタル」のほうは、少し前に「動き出している」ということを"ある筋"から聞いていたので、それほど意外性はなかったです。
センサーサイズの小さな「ミラーレスカメラ」と大型センサーの「ディス イズ 一眼レフカメラ」の"光"が少し見えただけでもウレシイです。
As for "645 digital", I heard a while ago from "a certain line" that "it is moving", so it was not so surprising.
Since I saw a little "light" of "mirrorless camera" with a small sensor size and "This is SLR camera" with large sensor I'm happy.

18:01
追伸。
「Qはやめない」とのPENTAXの回答について、否定的な捉え方や、販売上の方便的な回答、と受け取っている人がいるようですが、政治家の回答じゃないのですからもう少し前向きに受け取りたいです。将来性30%以下でしょうけど「可能性」はありそう。小さくても夢があっていいじゃないですか。
Postscript.
There seems to be someone who receives negative answers about the answer of PENTAX that "they will not stop Q" and a convenient answer on sale, but it's not a politician's answer, so I received it a little more positively I want to. The future will be less than 30%, but there seems to be a "possibility". Even if [the probability] is small, one can have a dream.
A lot of ambiguous talk ... or "small-talk" !
03-12-2019, 06:52 AM - 2 Likes   #435
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