Ricoh booth at CP+

**BigMackCam** · 02-07-2019, 03:39 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Chris Mak

I do think, that those that were eagerly awaiting a high end APS-C body will have moved on. The K3 was high end in its days, but cannot seriously be called such today. Those that would simply like to have a new APS-C camera that competes with todays top models, but still just as happily shoot their K3, won't be that many in numbers, I assume. Simply because the camera world has moved on, and as said: the options are growing.

I think you assume incorrectly, Chris... At least, that's my take on it. I think you seriously underestimate the desire of a certain portion of folks to stay with Pentax - especially those who've been with the brand for some time, rather than those who joined in the last couple of years, perhaps as one of several brand changes over a short period of time.

But, hey... We could both be right or wrong

It doesn't really matter... Whatever folks have already done really isn't of consequence, as it's happened already. What matters is whether or not the large number of current Pentax APS-C shooters are going to be catered for with a new high-end body. I hope they (we) are, and some time soon. This year would be great

RonHendriks1966 · 02-07-2019, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Chris Mak

I think the waiting and pining over a K3 successor has passed for the majority of those that were involved. Just imagine people still moaning over an Olympus E5 4/3 dslr successor....

.
That time has passed and I assume most are now looking around across brands for a suitable option.

That is why I think that top level aps-c k-mount camera isn't coming. A more suitable fullframe camera could fill that spot.

**BigMackCam** · 02-07-2019, 03:44 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

That is why I think that top level aps-c k-mount camera isn't coming. A more suitable fullframe camera could fill that spot.

You may be correct, but that would fly in the face of recent interviews with Ricoh Imaging personnel...

**RobA_Oz** · 02-07-2019, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

That is why I think that top level aps-c k-mount camera isn't coming. A more suitable fullframe camera could fill that spot.

Well, if it isn’t, I’ll simply buy a KP the next time a sale is on. My K-3 is still good, but I want something physically smaller and better at low-light to go with my DA lenses, for travel. However, I’m not sure about the logic that says options are growing in a shrinking camera market, though it could be a final scramble for relevance, before makers start dropping off the perch.

reh321 · 02-07-2019, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

You may be correct, but that would fly in the face of recent interviews with Ricoh Imaging personnel...

My concern has been in understanding what the Ricoh representatives are actually saying - I trust the PF representatives, but I don't quite trust that Ricoh understands concepts quite the same as we do, nor do I trust Ricoh to have an immutable plan (*), nor do I quite trust renditions in English of what they are thinking ..... that is why the appearance of announcements or actual products are so important to me.

(*) In fact, their words seem to suggest that they have re-examined their plan several times.

**BigMackCam** · 02-07-2019, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by reh321

My concern has been in understanding what the Ricoh representatives are actually saying - I trust the PF representatives, but I don't quite trust that Ricoh understands concepts quite the same as we do, nor do I trust Ricoh to have an immutable plan (*), nor do I quite trust renditions in English of what they are thinking ..... that is why the appearance of announcements or actual products are so important to me.

(*) In fact, their words seem to suggest that they have re-examined their plan several times.

For sure... and whatever the reps say, it still won't necessarily reflect the real discussions going on within Ricoh Imaging. We'll only know for sure when it delivers a new product. If it doesn't, we still can't say one way or another... because that product could still be coming, at a later date.

Given the new DA* lens, I think it's clear the company hasn't given up on APS-C. I'm therefore hopeful we'll see something this year on the K-3II replacement, or if not, further APS-C development...

**TedH42** · 02-07-2019, 04:29 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

Well, if it isn’t, I’ll simply buy a KP the next time a sale is on. My K-3 is still good, but I want something physically smaller and better at low-light to go with my DA lenses, for travel.

Then the KP is your camera. My K-3's lack of a tilting LCD drove me to get a KP for a Galapagos trip, where low angle shooting is necessary. The KP performed magnificently, and for my money (I got no super deal on it) is the Pentax travel camera par excellence. Lenses were the 16-85 and the 55-300 PLM. The high ISO performance blows the socks off the K-3.

I'm sure the forthcoming higher-end APS-C camera will be even better, but it will surely be bigger and heavier than the KP. Oh, I'm going get it too. Someday.

**clackers** · 02-07-2019, 04:47 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ogl

I'm a bit confused with so long period of camera's releases...As I remember, that they wanted to upgrade entry-level cameras in 1.5 years, advanced models in 2-2.5 years...

What is your proof of this?

Even Sony - who produce more products than anyone - have not released an entry-level camera since 2014.

**clackers** · 02-07-2019, 05:02 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

My concern has been in understanding what the Ricoh representatives are actually saying - I trust the PF representatives, but I don't quite trust that Ricoh understands concepts quite the same as we do, nor do I trust Ricoh to have an immutable plan (*), nor do I quite trust renditions in English of what they are thinking ..... that is why the appearance of announcements or actual products are so important to me..

Such a roller coaster ride with you, Reh!

Didn't I read a couple of days ago you saying there'd be a K-3 successor this year, even without evidence?

**monochrome** · 02-07-2019, 05:06 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by asahi man

Both new converters are fullframe and with all AF systems compatible.
But still no exactly shipping date.
Still in late prototype condition.
Maybe because of the new tele lenses.
Best regards

Posted mid-November 2018 . . . . .

reh321 · 02-07-2019, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Given the new DA* lens, I think it's clear the company hasn't given up on APS-C. I'm therefore hopeful we'll see something this year on the K-3II replacement, or if not, further APS-C development...

I essentially agree - which is why three days ago I said

Originally posted by reh321

Last month I was rather dubious about the K-3ii replacement - but this 'quick' release of the DA* 11-18 made it obvious that this year won't be mostly "FF" as I had been thinking.

but as an engineer at heart, I guess I need to see it to continue believing,

reh321 · 02-07-2019, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Such a roller coaster ride with you, Reh!

Didn't I read a couple of days ago you saying there'd be a K-3 successor this year, even without evidence?

My 'evidence' is a lot of scattered things, such as that gaping hole in their line-up, and the length of time they've been saying a successor is coming. However in my heart of hearts, I'd been expecting to see the K-3 successor follow a timing similar to the K-1ii last year, which means we would have seen a {confusing} leak by now. I'm having trouble with the thought of a CP+ in which the only thing of interest to Pentax owners is a {late} lens and a {rewarmed} lens.

**monochrome** · 02-07-2019, 06:38 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by reh321

My 'evidence' is a lot of scattered things, such as that gaping hole in their line-up, and the length of time they've been saying a successor is coming. However in my heart of hearts, I'd been expecting to see the K-3 successor follow a timing similar to the K-1ii last year, which means we would have seen a {confusing} leak by now. I'm having trouble with the thought of a CP+ in which the only thing of interest to Pentax owners is a {late} lens and a {rewarmed} lens.

No personal criticism intended - but Ricoh has been quite frank about what is coming (just the GRlll and the 11-18) since Photokina. They’ve changed their story about an APSc ILC but not the delivery date. It has always been late 2019 or later. Promoting the f/4 zoom to ‘Spring 2019” delivery date was good news. Clearly the HD 35/2 is a surprise.

IMHO there should be a finished pre-production DFA70~200/4 on display, and probably a release date in May.

gatorguy · 02-07-2019, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by TedH42

Then the KP is your camera.

I'm sure the forthcoming higher-end APS-C camera will be even better, but it will surely be bigger and heavier than the KP. Oh, I'm going get it too. Someday.

If size and weight is a major priority doesn't the K-70 accomplish much the same at a lesser price? I don't think it's bigger than the KP, but maybe I'm wrong.

reh321 · 02-07-2019, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

They’ve changed their story about an APSc ILC but not the delivery date. It has always been late 2019 or later.

The most recent Pentax camera was announced a year ago. Are we assuming that a couple more FF cameras are announced before the K-3ii replacement?

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02-07-2019, 03:39 PM - 1 Like	#76
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,695	Originally posted by Chris Mak I do think, that those that were eagerly awaiting a high end APS-C body will have moved on. The K3 was high end in its days, but cannot seriously be called such today. Those that would simply like to have a new APS-C camera that competes with todays top models, but still just as happily shoot their K3, won't be that many in numbers, I assume. Simply because the camera world has moved on, and as said: the options are growing. I think you assume incorrectly, Chris... At least, that's my take on it. I think you seriously underestimate the desire of a certain portion of folks to stay with Pentax - especially those who've been with the brand for some time, rather than those who joined in the last couple of years, perhaps as one of several brand changes over a short period of time. But, hey... We could both be right or wrong It doesn't really matter... Whatever folks have already done really isn't of consequence, as it's happened already. What matters is whether or not the large number of current Pentax APS-C shooters are going to be catered for with a new high-end body. I hope they (we) are, and some time soon. This year would be great

02-07-2019, 03:41 PM	#77
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Chris Mak I think the waiting and pining over a K3 successor has passed for the majority of those that were involved. Just imagine people still moaning over an Olympus E5 4/3 dslr successor.... . That time has passed and I assume most are now looking around across brands for a suitable option. That is why I think that top level aps-c k-mount camera isn't coming. A more suitable fullframe camera could fill that spot.

02-07-2019, 03:44 PM - 2 Likes	#78
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,695	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 That is why I think that top level aps-c k-mount camera isn't coming. A more suitable fullframe camera could fill that spot. You may be correct, but that would fly in the face of recent interviews with Ricoh Imaging personnel...

02-07-2019, 03:48 PM	#79
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,209	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 That is why I think that top level aps-c k-mount camera isn't coming. A more suitable fullframe camera could fill that spot. Well, if it isn’t, I’ll simply buy a KP the next time a sale is on. My K-3 is still good, but I want something physically smaller and better at low-light to go with my DA lenses, for travel. However, I’m not sure about the logic that says options are growing in a shrinking camera market, though it could be a final scramble for relevance, before makers start dropping off the perch.

02-07-2019, 03:57 PM	#80
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by BigMackCam You may be correct, but that would fly in the face of recent interviews with Ricoh Imaging personnel... My concern has been in understanding what the Ricoh representatives are actually saying - I trust the PF representatives, but I don't quite trust that Ricoh understands concepts quite the same as we do, nor do I trust Ricoh to have an immutable plan (), nor do I quite trust renditions in English of what they are thinking ..... that is why the appearance of announcements or actual products are so important to me. () In fact, their words seem to suggest that they have re-examined their plan several times.

02-07-2019, 04:14 PM	#81
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,695	Originally posted by reh321 My concern has been in understanding what the Ricoh representatives are actually saying - I trust the PF representatives, but I don't quite trust that Ricoh understands concepts quite the same as we do, nor do I trust Ricoh to have an immutable plan (), nor do I quite trust renditions in English of what they are thinking ..... that is why the appearance of announcements or actual products are so important to me. () In fact, their words seem to suggest that they have re-examined their plan several times. For sure... and whatever the reps say, it still won't necessarily reflect the real discussions going on within Ricoh Imaging. We'll only know for sure when it delivers a new product. If it doesn't, we still can't say one way or another... because that product could still be coming, at a later date. Given the new DA* lens, I think it's clear the company hasn't given up on APS-C. I'm therefore hopeful we'll see something this year on the K-3II replacement, or if not, further APS-C development...

02-07-2019, 04:29 PM - 2 Likes	#82
TedH42 F/8 & Somewhere Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Colorado Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,412	Originally posted by RobA_Oz Well, if it isn’t, I’ll simply buy a KP the next time a sale is on. My K-3 is still good, but I want something physically smaller and better at low-light to go with my DA lenses, for travel. Then the KP is your camera. My K-3's lack of a tilting LCD drove me to get a KP for a Galapagos trip, where low angle shooting is necessary. The KP performed magnificently, and for my money (I got no super deal on it) is the Pentax travel camera par excellence. Lenses were the 16-85 and the 55-300 PLM. The high ISO performance blows the socks off the K-3. I'm sure the forthcoming higher-end APS-C camera will be even better, but it will surely be bigger and heavier than the KP. Oh, I'm going get it too. Someday.

02-07-2019, 04:47 PM - 1 Like	#83
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by ogl I'm a bit confused with so long period of camera's releases...As I remember, that they wanted to upgrade entry-level cameras in 1.5 years, advanced models in 2-2.5 years... What is your proof of this? Even Sony - who produce more products than anyone - have not released an entry-level camera since 2014.

02-07-2019, 05:02 PM - 1 Like	#84
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by reh321 My concern has been in understanding what the Ricoh representatives are actually saying - I trust the PF representatives, but I don't quite trust that Ricoh understands concepts quite the same as we do, nor do I trust Ricoh to have an immutable plan (*), nor do I quite trust renditions in English of what they are thinking ..... that is why the appearance of announcements or actual products are so important to me.. Such a roller coaster ride with you, Reh! Didn't I read a couple of days ago you saying there'd be a K-3 successor this year, even without evidence?

02-07-2019, 05:06 PM - 1 Like	#85
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by asahi man Both new converters are fullframe and with all AF systems compatible. But still no exactly shipping date. Still in late prototype condition. Maybe because of the new tele lenses. Best regards Posted mid-November 2018 . . . . .

02-07-2019, 05:36 PM	#86
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by BigMackCam Given the new DA* lens, I think it's clear the company hasn't given up on APS-C. I'm therefore hopeful we'll see something this year on the K-3II replacement, or if not, further APS-C development... I essentially agree - which is why three days ago I said Originally posted by reh321 Last month I was rather dubious about the K-3ii replacement - but this 'quick' release of the DA* 11-18 made it obvious that this year won't be mostly "FF" as I had been thinking. but as an engineer at heart, I guess I need to see it to continue believing,

02-07-2019, 05:48 PM	#87
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by clackers Such a roller coaster ride with you, Reh! Didn't I read a couple of days ago you saying there'd be a K-3 successor this year, even without evidence? My 'evidence' is a lot of scattered things, such as that gaping hole in their line-up, and the length of time they've been saying a successor is coming. However in my heart of hearts, I'd been expecting to see the K-3 successor follow a timing similar to the K-1ii last year, which means we would have seen a {confusing} leak by now. I'm having trouble with the thought of a CP+ in which the only thing of interest to Pentax owners is a {late} lens and a {rewarmed} lens.

02-07-2019, 06:38 PM - 2 Likes	#88
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by reh321 My 'evidence' is a lot of scattered things, such as that gaping hole in their line-up, and the length of time they've been saying a successor is coming. However in my heart of hearts, I'd been expecting to see the K-3 successor follow a timing similar to the K-1ii last year, which means we would have seen a {confusing} leak by now. I'm having trouble with the thought of a CP+ in which the only thing of interest to Pentax owners is a {late} lens and a {rewarmed} lens. No personal criticism intended - but Ricoh has been quite frank about what is coming (just the GRlll and the 11-18) since Photokina. They’ve changed their story about an APSc ILC but not the delivery date. It has always been late 2019 or later. Promoting the f/4 zoom to ‘Spring 2019” delivery date was good news. Clearly the HD 35/2 is a surprise. IMHO there should be a finished pre-production DFA70~200/4 on display, and probably a release date in May.

02-07-2019, 07:01 PM	#89
gatorguy Moderator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Central Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,094	Originally posted by TedH42 Then the KP is your camera. I'm sure the forthcoming higher-end APS-C camera will be even better, but it will surely be bigger and heavier than the KP. Oh, I'm going get it too. Someday. If size and weight is a major priority doesn't the K-70 accomplish much the same at a lesser price? I don't think it's bigger than the KP, but maybe I'm wrong.

02-07-2019, 07:52 PM	#90
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by monochrome They’ve changed their story about an APSc ILC but not the delivery date. It has always been late 2019 or later. The most recent Pentax camera was announced a year ago. Are we assuming that a couple more FF cameras are announced before the K-3ii replacement?