[gatorguy]

Right now, a couple hundred dollars separate the K-70 and the KP, which purchases an upgrade from consumer quality to something close to the quality of the K-7/5/3 family.

In addition, the KP has better Noise Reduction, a quieter shutter, more focusing points, and an available battery grip.
Why wasn't there more fuss made about the KP's newer sensor? - Page 6 - PentaxForums.com

Good points...

[Kunzite]

I do think, that those that were eagerly awaiting a high end APS-C body will have moved on.

That's exactly what people said about the full frame. Guess what - they were wrong.

What is particularly wrong about this, is assuming a static view of Pentax' user base: a finite, unchanging set of people who either want and need the high-end APS-C now, or don't and never will.
It doesn't work that way. Some people needed/wanted it bad enough that they left. Some didn't. Some don't want it now, but might, later. Then there are non-Pentaxians, returning Pentaxians...
The camera isn't for those who already left the brand, but for those who stayed.

[Chris Mak]

That's exactly what people said about the full frame. Guess what - they were wrong.

What is particularly wrong about this, is assuming a static view of Pentax' user base: a finite, unchanging set of people who either want and need the high-end APS-C now, or don't and never will.
It doesn't work that way. Some people needed/wanted it bad enough that they left. Some didn't. Some don't want it now, but might, later. Then there are non-Pentaxians, returning Pentaxians...
The camera isn't for those who already left the brand, but for those who stayed.

Sure, when a high end APS-C does come out, and it is very good, people from outside the Pentax userbase may consider it, as well as former Pentax shooters. But you would not make a Pentax marketing guy, or any marketing guy, happy by relying on that or by being satisfied with these (probably low in number) new users, and ignore the number of users that left, because of the endless delay in releasing a new high level APS-C body.
Let's face it Alex, Pentax allowed a gap to exist in their line-up and it has driven users elsewhere. It will not be easy winning these over to the Pentax universe again. But do you yourself expect a good new APS-C body to sell in significant numbers, being realistic I mean? I would expect a new very good FF to sell better. The only sales driving factor with a new APS-C body as far as I can see, would be a very competitive price, véry, because let's not forget the aging lens line up. The DA11-18* looks a very good lens, but again: no nééd for a high frame rate, large buffer, fast and accurate AF and dual card slot body for such a lens.

Would I like Pentax to make a super APS-C body and sell it like hotcakes? Sure, but I am trying to be realistic here.

edit anyhow, since a new APS-C body is at present purely hypothetical, perhaps best to not discuss this anyhow. Let's see what the market is like at the time that a new APS-C body dóes arrive.

Chris

[superdave]

Dave, a genuine question with no underlying motive... Do you think the existing DA lens line-up can last another decade, in terms of optical performance?

I ask, because I'm using (all of) the DA Limited range (even the 20-40 that both you and I had concerns about), plus others - the DA*60-250, HD DA55-300 (screw-drive), DA35 and DA50 "plastic fantastic", D FA100/2.8 Macro WR, and more - and I see nothing significant in these lenses that I would wish to change even on a "better" body. OK, the SDM motor on the DA* series... but otherwise, they seem great to me. But then, I realise other folks have different preferences and priorities.

Some of the glass I'm happy with is over 50 years old, so clearly my own requirements and expectations differ from many folks. Of course, I'm not silly enough to think that certain aspects of lenses have improved... But in numerous cases, I don't see the improvements as essential, though they might be desirable.

I'm interested to know what really needs to change, and what transformation that will bring to the photographer. I'm absolutely prepared to accept there's a need for change and improvement...

Thanks for asking BigMackCam, I do not have time to answer right now and probably not before monday, but I will as soon as I can, its a good question
In your list I really like DA*60-250, DFA100Macro and DA50, and less DA35 (my copy is really bad, I used it two times in 1 year) and HD55-300 (but the last one is a great travel lens).

[Kunzite]

Sure, when a high end APS-C does come out, and it is very good, people from outside the Pentax userbase may consider it, as well as former Pentax shooters. But you would not make a Pentax marketing guy, or any marketing guy, happy by relying on that or by being satisfied with these (probably low in number) new users, and ignore the number of users that left, because of the endless delay in releasing a new high level APS-C body.
Let's face it Alex, Pentax allowed a gap to exist in their line-up and it has driven users elsewhere. It will not be easy winning these over to the Pentax universe again. But do you yourself expect a good new APS-C body to sell in significant numbers, being realistic I mean? I would expect a new very good FF to sell better. The only sales driving factor with a new APS-C body as far as I can see, would be a very competitive price, véry, because let's not forget the aging lens line up. The DA11-18* looks a very good lens, but again: no nééd for a high frame rate, large buffer, fast and accurate AF and dual card slot body for such a lens.

Would I like Pentax to make a super APS-C body and sell it like hotcakes? Sure, but I am trying to be realistic here.

edit anyhow, since a new APS-C body is at present purely hypothetical, perhaps best to not discuss this anyhow. Let's see what the market is like at the time that a new APS-C body dóes arrive.

Chris

"people from outside the Pentax userbase may consider it, as well as former Pentax shooters" - you are "forgetting" the largest category, i.e. actual Pentax shooters.
Just because you decided to leave it doesn't mean everyone else interested already left.

The APS-C flagship is work in progress, and will be ready when it's ready. I expect it to be a moderate success.

[reh321]

"people from outside the Pentax userbase may consider it, as well as former Pentax shooters" - you are "forgetting" the largest category, i.e. actual Pentax shooters.
Just because you decided to leave it doesn't mean everyone else interested already left.

The APS-C flagship is work in progress, and will be ready when it's ready. I expect it to be a moderate success.

I expect any APS-C DSLR with 'flagship' features and recent Pentax features to be a huge success if it comes anytime 'soon'.

[Kunzite]

I expect any APS-C DSLR with 'flagship' features and recent Pentax features to be a huge success if it comes anytime 'soon'.

Hopefully we'll have at least some news about it at CP+.

[Chris Mak]

"people from outside the Pentax userbase may consider it, as well as former Pentax shooters" - you are "forgetting" the largest category, i.e. actual Pentax shooters.
Just because you decided to leave it doesn't mean everyone else interested already left.

The APS-C flagship is work in progress, and will be ready when it's ready. I expect it to be a moderate success.

I have not actually left yet, I'll be so decent as to no longer post here when I have no Pentax gear any longer. I still have a year to go with the DA560 until I have the abilities to buy a full Nikon set-up.
I am honest when I say that the KP was a big disappointment for use with the DA560. And I don't factor in the possibility that I will see the K3 successor or whatever APS-C body on the shelves soon. I ám however considering a K1mkII to use for a year and sell my K3II.
The K1mkII should not set me back thát much after selling it myself again, it's 1799,- where I live.
The K1mkII has the better AF (the K3II AF with the DA560 is driving me nuts, always zip-zip-zip and just miss in anything but full contrast sunny daylight) ánd it has IQ that I like a lot.
If I can sell the K3II, and get a K1mkII, I will use it with the 1.4TC always on, the IQ that I have seen from this combo, K1mkII +DA560+1.4TC, is really very good. If the AF works, then that will be a possibility.
So not gone yet...

Chris

[reh321]

I have not actually left yet, I'll be so decent as to no longer post here when I have no Pentax gear any longer. I still have a year to go with the DA560 until I have the abilities to buy a full Nikon set-up.
I am honest when I say that the KP was a big disappointment for use with the DA560.

I've forgotten - which particular features of the KP turned out to be an issue for you when you tried to use the DA560 on a KP?

[Chris Mak]

I've forgotten - which particular features of the KP turned out to be an issue for you when you tried to use the DA560 on a KP?

There were several things, but I'd rather not get into that. Rather, I would like to be positive about the K1mkII, esp. its IQ, because not only the iffy AF is a burden with the K3II, but also its high iso is not good. The K1mkII should settle the iso 800-1600 issue, and hopefully the accelerator chip leaves these iso values unharmed.
The bare K1mkII should weigh less than my K3II with grip attached, and not be any bigger, so I am seriously considering it.

Chris

[reh321]

There were several things, but I'd rather not get into that. Rather, I would like to be positive about the K1mkII, esp. its IQ.
The bare K1mkII should weigh less than my K3II with grip attached, and not be any bigger, so I am seriously considering it.

Chris

I was just wondering how they would have to "fix" the KP - but I guess that wouldn't matter if the K-1ii could work for you {and is available now}.

[Kunzite]

I have not actually left yet, I'll be so decent as to no longer post here when I have no Pentax gear any longer. I still have a year to go with the DA560 until I have the abilities to buy a full Nikon set-up.
I am honest when I say that the KP was a big disappointment for use with the DA560. And I don't factor in the possibility that I will see the K3 successor or whatever APS-C body on the shelves soon. I ám however considering a K1mkII to use for a year and sell my K3II.
The K1mkII should not set me back thát much after selling it myself again, it's 1799,- where I live.
The K1mkII has the better AF (the K3II AF with the DA560 is driving me nuts, always zip-zip-zip and just miss in anything but full contrast sunny daylight) ánd it has IQ that I like a lot.
If I can sell the K3II, and get a K1mkII, I will use it with the 1.4TC always on, the IQ that I have seen from this combo, K1mkII +DA560+1.4TC, is really very good. If the AF works, then that will be a possibility.
So not gone yet...

Chris

If you're not decided to leave, then even more so - you are a potential customer for a higher performance camera.

I would like if you'd keep saying hi from time to time, post some images taken with your new kit, etc - in the event you'd actually leave. We have a non-Pentax area for this reason.
The only thing, I'd rather see you happy with your Nikon than angry about Pentax.

Check the K-1's speed, fps, buffer and buffer clearing.
Better performance is what can make me upgrade to a new model. I need no stinkin' video nor EVFs, thank you.

[RonHendriks1966]

Dave, a genuine question with no underlying motive... Do you think the existing DA lens line-up can last another decade, in terms of optical performance?

I ask, because I'm using (all of) the DA Limited range (even the 20-40 that both you and I had concerns about), plus others - the DA*60-250, HD DA55-300 (screw-drive), DA35 and DA50 "plastic fantastic", D FA100/2.8 Macro WR, and more - and I see nothing significant in these lenses that I would wish to change even on a "better" body. OK, the SDM motor on the DA* series... but otherwise, they seem great to me. But then, I realise other folks have different preferences and priorities.

Some of the glass I'm happy with is over 50 years old, so clearly my own requirements and expectations differ from many folks. Of course, I'm not silly enough to think that certain aspects of lenses have improved... But in numerous cases, I don't see the improvements as essential, though they might be desirable.

I'm interested to know what really needs to change, and what transformation that will bring to the photographer. I'm absolutely prepared to accept there's a need for change and improvement...

Well that is an interesting question. What in the current lineup could be in portfolio for the coming decade?

First of all......Let's think of what Pentax should be as a brand.

• This is about aps-c, so mainly about the consumer and prosumer. This is about people who are interested in photography, have some or a lot of skills or are willing to learn.
• Pentax's strong site is being small, lightweight, roboust and can handle the outside invironment.
• Pentax is a brand that delivers good on the "bang for the buck" challenge.
• bla

So anything about lenses or camera's in portfolio now that doesn't deliver on this, has to go or be replaced or altered. We are talking about the time span from today until december 31th 2029. So time is on our side.

So how about that catalogue of lenses for aps-c:
- DA prime lenses: 14mm/f2.8, 35mm/f2.4, 40mm/f2.8 XS, 50mm/f1.8
- DA-L lenses: not on the list, but maybe still in a kit with a camera
- DA zoom lenses: 12-24mm, 16-85mm, 18-50mm, 18-55mm wr, 18-135mm, 18-270mm, 50-200mm, 55-300mm PLM, 55-300mm wr
- DA* prime lenses: 55mm/f1.4, *200mm/f2.8, *300mm/f4, 560mm/f5.6
- DA* zoom lenses: 11-18mm/f2.8, 16-50mm/f2.8, 50-135mm/f2.8, 60-250mm/f4
- DA Ltd lenses: 15mm, 20-40mm DC WR, 21mm, 40mm, 70mm
- FA (Ltd) lenses: 31mm, 43mm, 77mm, 50mm/f1.4
- Macro lenses: da 35mm Ltd, d-fa 50mm, d-fa 100mm
- D-FA (*) prime lenses: 35mm/f2, *50mm/f1.4
- D-FA (*) zoom lenses: 15-30mm/f2.8, 24-70mm/f2.8, 28-150mm, *70-200mm/f2.8, 150-450mm
- Fisheye lens: 10-17mm

So that are many lenses. But they also are all over the place when it comes to specs.

What should every lens be in 2030?
- HD coating
- in lens motor
- WR
- Kaf4 (body controle aperture)
- high quality glass for hi pixelcount on sensors

So I would say that a lot of lenses need an update or replacement.
- smc coating on a lot of lenses
- only one Kaf4 lens
- lots of lenses without any SDM, DC or PLM motor
- lenses with no wr
- quality issues, I name old SDM, chromatic aberations with 16-50 and some other lenses, plastic mount on lenses, slow focusing lenses like 50-135 and 60-250.

There is enough work. Some lenses might be replaced by the same but updated lens or replaced by a lens that gives a simular experience.

Enough for discussion I guess.

[alcstudios]

december 31th 2029

That's the date I'm expecting the K3 replacement.

[Chris Mak]

If you're not decided to leave, then even more so - you are a potential customer for a higher performance camera.

I would like if you'd keep saying hi from time to time, post some images taken with your new kit, etc - in the event you'd actually leave. We have a non-Pentax area for this reason.
The only thing, I'd rather see you happy with your Nikon than angry about Pentax.

Check the K-1's speed, fps, buffer and buffer clearing.
Better performance is what can make me upgrade to a new model. I need no stinkin' video nor EVFs, thank you.

The K1's speed (or lack of it), fps and buffer clearing is not an issue for me, the DA560 is a slow lens anyhow. Accuracy and reliabilty AF wise ís.
Speed, lens wise and body wise, is of course one of the reasons for moving towards Nikon....