[Belnan]

Correct me if Im wrong but Pentax doesnt often anounce cameras for CP+, I think the K-1 II was an anomaly. So I suppose if anyone is waiting for camera announcement they likely should not get there hopes up, autumn seems to be the favoured time. However they do seem to randomly anounce products so who knows.

[biz-engineer]

What would happen, for instance, if a customer were to buy $2800 one year and $2200 the following year?

The customer know the pricing condition, so he will spend 2800 instead of 2200 because he gets more for 2800, that's the whole point. You can also buy a car 1 wheel at a time, then the gear box, engine etc...(you see my point), or you can buy a whole car for a lot less than the sum of the retail price for each piece. What car makers do, they price spare part at a very high price.

---------- Post added 10-02-19 at 23:17 ----------

What person in their right mind would buy into a system like you are proposing knowing the restrictions?

Me. I don't buy a camera anymore, I buy a complete system when the camera and the set of lenses are available, it is the best way not to rely on eventual future lens that may come or not come.
Last time I bought the K1, I bought 4 lenses the same day. Next time, if I would get a medium format system, I give back all my K mount system and I negotiate the price for a full medium format system including lenses.
Doing so, it's a win win deal, I get what I want for cheaper, and the selling make more money in one shot. Ricoh should scrap the old stuff and offer attractive bundles for new product lines.

[reh321]

Me. I don't buy a camera anymore, I buy a complete system when the camera and the set of lenses are available, it is the best way not to rely on eventual future lens that may come or not come.
Last time I bought the K1, I bought 4 lenses the same day. Next time, if I would get a medium format system, I give back all my K mount system and I negotiate the price for a full medium format system including lenses.
Doing so, it's a win win deal, I get what I want for cheaper, and the selling make more money in one shot. Ricoh should scrap the old stuff and offer attractive bundles for new product lines.

When I purchased my first DSLR, I purchased a Canon Rebel, because I was able to continue using lenses from my last film camera, a Canon Elan. I took the Elan out of the bag then put the Rebel and its kit lens (*) into the bag with the lenses from the Elan, which now became most of the lenses for the Rebel. Later, when I purchased my KP, I also purchased a 55-300 PLM lens, because this was the first camera I owned that could use it, but I put those two into the bag now vacated by my K-30 and still containing the 18-135 which had been the K-30's primary lens.

Most users function that way; being able to use lenses you already have, not having to purchase a complete set of lenses for each camera, is a very strong marketing pull; it is how most manufacturers keep current users "in the fold".

(*) I needed the kit 18-55mm lens, because the 35mm camera's widest lens was 28-80mm, and the crop sensor camera needed the extra wide angle focal length.

[RobA_Oz]

I am that kind of customer. I can never afford to buy a new camera or lens of the quality I want, so I have to go on the used market. And you know what? Many of the guys I buy lenses/cameras from sell to finance new equipment, mostly Pentax stuff, so my money some way or the other go to Pentax, if not directly.

I do wonder what the actual cash volume generated amounts to, across all markets, but I agree that people tend to forget this when they look at new sales in isolation.

I’m not one of those who sell to buy, but then I only quit working for a living twelve months ago. My “collection” is actually an “accumulation” that started in 1971.

[monochrome]

The customer know the pricing condition, so he will spend 2800 instead of 2200 because he gets more for 2800, that's the whole point. You can also buy a car 1 wheel at a time, then the gear box, engine etc...(you see my point), or you can buy a whole car for a lot less than the sum of the retail price for each piece. What car makers do, they price spare part at a very high price.

---------- Post added 10-02-19 at 23:17 ----------


Me. I don't buy a camera anymore, I buy a complete system when the camera and the set of lenses are available, it is the best way not to rely on eventual future lens that may come or not come.
Last time I bought the K1, I bought 4 lenses the same day. Next time, if I would get a medium format system, I give back all my K mount system and I negotiate the price for a full medium format system including lenses.
Doing so, it's a win win deal, I get what I want for cheaper, and the selling make more money in one shot. Ricoh should scrap the old stuff and offer attractive bundles for new product lines.

You negotiate with a Dealer, not with Ricoh. Ricoh’s regional Distributor’s price to the Dealer (and therefore Ricoh’s profit) is not at all affected by the terms of your volume purchase.

[RonHendriks1966]

Exactly. Ricoh's customers are the Distributors. The Distributors' customers are the Dealers. The Dealers' customers are the end buyers. The end buyers are the drag on sales.

One of the reasons Ricoh is again loosing dealers is that they are investing more in inventory in the new mounts Z, R and L for the new mirrorless camera lines. So you ditch or have less in store for what is selling less.

[biz-engineer]

One of the reasons Ricoh is again loosing dealers is that they are investing more in inventory in the new mounts Z, R and L for the new mirrorless camera lines. So you ditch or have less in store for what is selling less.

Well, someone who kinda get some of my thinking. My point is, new stuff attract sales and the cost of material relative to selling prices is now a lot less than it used to be because volumes are less and the highest contributor to price is the cost of R&D. In other words, old stuff has no value, scrap it and create brand new system that gain shelf space and visible to market. Then, for the pricing, a camera system now cost as much as a car, when people buy cars they don't buy the car without the tires and keep the old tires to mount on the new car, car buyers sell the old car with the old tires and buy the new car with the new tires. Old stuff on ebay doesn't attract new customers, and it allows customers to not spend money on Pentax. My point is Ricoh should design a bunch on new lenses with WR, coatings, silent motor, ditch the screw drive motor in camera and dump all the legacy glass on ebay or even collect old $50 items on ebay for demolition. Old stuff not only makes zero money for Ricoh but the old stuff allows customers not to buy anything new.

---

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-11-2019 at 02:50 AM.

[superdave]

Dave, a genuine question with no underlying motive... Do you think the existing DA lens line-up can last another decade, in terms of optical performance?

I ask, because I'm using (all of) the DA Limited range (even the 20-40 that both you and I had concerns about), plus others - the DA*60-250, HD DA55-300 (screw-drive), DA35 and DA50 "plastic fantastic", D FA100/2.8 Macro WR, and more - and I see nothing significant in these lenses that I would wish to change even on a "better" body. OK, the SDM motor on the DA* series... but otherwise, they seem great to me. But then, I realise other folks have different preferences and priorities.

Some of the glass I'm happy with is over 50 years old, so clearly my own requirements and expectations differ from many folks. Of course, I'm not silly enough to think that certain aspects of lenses have improved... But in numerous cases, I don't see the improvements as essential, though they might be desirable.

I'm interested to know what really needs to change, and what transformation that will bring to the photographer. I'm absolutely prepared to accept there's a need for change and improvement...

Quick answer, I think that most of the current DA lens line up is obsolete, and should not last another decade if Pentax want to stay alive in 10 years.

From the point of view of an existing Pentax user, you’re still able to find great lenses in the lineup but for the photographer who want best image quality, it is not that easy to build a complete range of lenses. When I started photography 10 years ago, a K10D with sigma 10-20, 17-70 and 70-300 what more than enough to enjoy photography, but now I am more demanding. I want to specialize in landscape and wildlife photography, and now that I start to sell a few Fine Art prints, I want to take my photography to the next level and take photos that will still look good in 10 years. To do so, I need to find the best lenses available that I can purchase for my use. I cannot afford a K-1 as modern full frame lenses are too expensive for me, and I like to travel light. Pentax chosen to start to build its FF lineup with fast lenses, and that do not suit my needs, not my wallet. So, I stay in APS-C and its perfectly fine for me, as I really like the ratio quality/weight/price of that format. When I look at the current DA lineup, what can I purchase to have “perfect quality” images? By “perfect quality”, I mean image quality that compare or came close to photos from inspiring photographers that I can see in exhibit or on the web (often FF users). Let’s see:

First idea, look at DA* lenses:
- DA* 16-50mm (919€): this is a lens totally overpriced with lot of CA, soft edges and corners, who do not deserve its DA* label. I cannot use it for landscape photography.
- DA* 50-135mm (1200€): I didn’t try it, but it seems to have good reputation. It’s more a portrait lens, and if I were a portrait photographer, I will fell that the lens has a slow AF, and is not good wide open.
- DA* 55mm (749€): This lens is totally obsolete, there are many great 50mm lens in competitor catalog that outclass this lens, especially the Sigma 50mm. For landscape photography, I can use the 100€ DA 50mm/1.8 that have perfect quality corner to corner at f/5.6-f/11.
- DA* 60-250mm: I didn’t try it but it should be a good lens.
- DA* 200mm: is probably a top-quality glass.
- DA* 300mm: is a top-quality glass that I own. But I really want it to be updated with a better motor. Current motor is slow, take time to start, and is not precise at all…. The lens is ruined by the AF.
- DA* 11-18mm: I plan to buy it, if reviews are great and I cross fingers to not be disappointed by its edge image quality.

To summarize, all the DA* lenses should be updated to HD coating and better motor. DA* 16-50 should be renewed with better image quality in priority as there is no top-quality zoom in the current Pentax lineup. DA* 55 and 50-135 need to be updated with better quality wide open, to deserve their DA* name. DA*200 and DA*300 need a better motor, HD coating and a may be a focus limited for the 300mm. And 60-250* could be renew with HD coating, or removed as the coming 70-200 f/4 will probably be better optically.

DA Limited:
- Primes: are okay as they are. Some perfect, others are better than others, but there good enough and beautifully made. I like their unique retro look and they’re fun to use. I would like more of them: 28mm, 135mm, renew the 100 Macro to Limited. On a first place I would like to use them for landscape work as I have the 70mm and its awesome, but others are less awesome and not necessarily easy to use on field (the cap of the 40mm is a good example, it is easy to lost).
- Zoom: For having tested two copies of 20-40, I find that it is the worst lens in the Pentax lineup for non-portrait things. You cannot take a full landscape shot in focus because of an enormous non-corrected field curvature, especially at 40mm. A real deception to me!

Others DA:
- It a case by case, but DA are not labelled to be top quality lenses, so Pentax should just renew the most used on a regular basic, but they already do this.

All in all, all DA* lenses should be renewed on a regular basic to embed the latest Pentax technologies, HD coating and latest motor. A non pentaxian that purchase a DA* glass should be convinced that he purchases the best glass in the focal range. To me it is the most important for APS-C right now. APS-C sensors are better and better, but its hard to find really good lenses. Personally, I am disappointed that Pentax pushed APS-C for years and know it seems that only FF matter. The competition on FF will be really hard, especially since Canon/Nikon developed their mirrorless offer and renew they lens lineup very quickly. APS-C and compact camera could be turned to an advantage for Pentax but it is not their priority. The most important lens to renew is 16-50, as competitor Canon and Nikon do not focus on APS-C and have pretty old transstandard zoom too… But they have Sigma, Tokina and Tamron to help…
Last work, if I had to renew all my gear now, I would switch to Fuji. I think there doing very well, XT-3 is a really good camera in all points, and they have tons of good APS-C lenses. They have tiny prime lenses that all have great quality, quiet AF and are weather sealed. They have many professional zooms that perform well. Their lenses seem to be pretty even in quality. They release many new lenses each year, they thrust in APSC, and they also release firmware updates with new features. For a new user, they’re more appealing than Pentax I’am afraid.

But this still can change. With 11-18, a new body and a new 16-50 and I pretty sure Pentax would become super attractive for non pentaxian users, especially as top-quality primes are on the way, and as 70-200 f/2.8 lens already exist and is good, and f/4 is coming. For wildlife photographer, it is more complicated… but there is still the option to have another body and lens for wildlife. For example, for the price of the DA560mm only, it is better to purchase a Nikon D7500 and their new 500 f/5.6 PF. Or a Sigma 500 f/4 with a Canon or Nikon body.

Thanks for reading.

[Kunzite]

This is totally amazing!! Surely you jest! What person in their right mind would buy into a system like you are proposing knowing the restrictions?

I would think that the HP course was regarding commercial customers certainly not retail consumer customers who buy, for instance, a printer and use it several years before coming back for a new one As for getting rid of cheap customers, better be careful of what you wish for, you just might get rid of other customers too.

What would happen, for instance, if a customer were to buy $2800 one year and $2200 the following year? Would they then be be denied a discount the following year? After a few years there would be no discounts for Pentax buyers since cameras last more than a year and and lens many more years and Pentax isn't a speed demon at camera and lens production.

The problem with theories like this is they are theories and can't be proven in the real world of consumer sales.

As for those former customers who bash Pentax on this forum, @Clackers had a solution to that, a litmus test to demonstrate that you still currently shoot Ricoh/Pentax camera systems.

The problem with theories like this is that they are trying to solve the wrong problem; in this case, the problem of Pentax having too many customers
It just cannot work. An artificial restriction on which lenses you can use? The backlash would be extreme. Not only those looking for a bargain, but also long time, high spending customers would lose faith and be made to think of jumping ship - to a brand that doesn't do such things. After all - the FUD department is always watching! - who knows what will happen next?
And this isn't the Pentax we know. It's rather Sony (except not even Sony dared to do such a thing).

The discounts are on retailers. To tell them not to discount unless buying $2500 worth of gear every year is extreme.

Once again, the Internet produces "how to finally kill Pentax" theories. Nice.

[ThorSanchez]

Good customers are important for companies to thrive and in turn offer better products. I remember one of the marketing course at Hewlet Packard was to rank customers from top payers to worst payer and cut off services for the lower tier. In a portfolio of customers you always have customers who cost more than they make money, you should get rid of those customers and concentrate on getting more high dollar customers. For example, some Pentax customer buy 645z system new, those customers should be highly considered and offered some advantages. At the other end of the spectrum, you have the Pentax customers who spend $50 a year on old Pentax stuff from ebay, they are the kind of customers who ruin the Pentax brand, you should not help those customers.

That sounds like a wonderful marketing scheme for Fuji.

Pentax: "We've made the K mount so that you can use even 40 year old lenses on the newest bodies!"
Pentax five minutes later: "You'd better spend thousands a year with us and quit with using all those old lenses or you get no support!"

[monochrome]

Pentax does make Best in Class Lenses. They’re labeled DFA* and cost $1,300 or more. You have to pay up for the best.

[RonHendriks1966]

Quick answer, I think that most of the current DA lens line up is obsolete, and should not last another decade if Pentax want to stay alive in 10 years.

From the point of view of an existing Pentax user, you’re still able to find great lenses in the lineup but for the photographer who want best image quality, it is not that easy to build a complete range of lenses. When I started photography 10 years ago, a K10D with sigma 10-20, 17-70 and 70-300 what more than enough to enjoy photography, but now I am more demanding. I want to specialize in landscape and wildlife photography, and now that I start to sell a few Fine Art prints, I want to take my photography to the next level and take photos that will still look good in 10 years. To do so, I need to find the best lenses available that I can purchase for my use. I cannot afford a K-1 as modern full frame lenses are too expensive for me, and I like to travel light. Pentax chosen to start to build its FF lineup with fast lenses, and that do not suit my needs, not my wallet. So, I stay in APS-C and its perfectly fine for me, as I really like the ratio quality/weight/price of that format. When I look at the current DA lineup, what can I purchase to have “perfect quality” images? By “perfect quality”, I mean image quality that compare or came close to photos from inspiring photographers that I can see in exhibit or on the web (often FF users). Let’s see:

First idea, look at DA* lenses:
- DA* 16-50mm (919€): this is a lens totally overpriced with lot of CA, soft edges and corners, who do not deserve its DA* label. I cannot use it for landscape photography.
- DA* 50-135mm (1200€): I didn’t try it, but it seems to have good reputation. It’s more a portrait lens, and if I were a portrait photographer, I will fell that the lens has a slow AF, and is not good wide open.
- DA* 55mm (749€): This lens is totally obsolete, there are many great 50mm lens in competitor catalog that outclass this lens, especially the Sigma 50mm. For landscape photography, I can use the 100€ DA 50mm/1.8 that have perfect quality corner to corner at f/5.6-f/11.
- DA* 60-250mm: I didn’t try it but it should be a good lens.
- DA* 200mm: is probably a top-quality glass.
- DA* 300mm: is a top-quality glass that I own. But I really want it to be updated with a better motor. Current motor is slow, take time to start, and is not precise at all…. The lens is ruined by the AF.
- DA* 11-18mm: I plan to buy it, if reviews are great and I cross fingers to not be disappointed by its edge image quality.

To summarize, all the DA* lenses should be updated to HD coating and better motor. DA* 16-50 should be renewed with better image quality in priority as there is no top-quality zoom in the current Pentax lineup. DA* 55 and 50-135 need to be updated with better quality wide open, to deserve their DA* name. DA*200 and DA*300 need a better motor, HD coating and a may be a focus limited for the 300mm. And 60-250* could be renew with HD coating, or removed as the coming 70-200 f/4 will probably be better optically.

DA Limited:
- Primes: are okay as they are. Some perfect, others are better than others, but there good enough and beautifully made. I like their unique retro look and they’re fun to use. I would like more of them: 28mm, 135mm, renew the 100 Macro to Limited. On a first place I would like to use them for landscape work as I have the 70mm and its awesome, but others are less awesome and not necessarily easy to use on field (the cap of the 40mm is a good example, it is easy to lost).
- Zoom: For having tested two copies of 20-40, I find that it is the worst lens in the Pentax lineup for non-portrait things. You cannot take a full landscape shot in focus because of an enormous non-corrected field curvature, especially at 40mm. A real deception to me!

Others DA:
- It a case by case, but DA are not labelled to be top quality lenses, so Pentax should just renew the most used on a regular basic, but they already do this.

All in all, all DA* lenses should be renewed on a regular basic to embed the latest Pentax technologies, HD coating and latest motor. A non pentaxian that purchase a DA* glass should be convinced that he purchases the best glass in the focal range. To me it is the most important for APS-C right now. APS-C sensors are better and better, but its hard to find really good lenses. Personally, I am disappointed that Pentax pushed APS-C for years and know it seems that only FF matter. The competition on FF will be really hard, especially since Canon/Nikon developed their mirrorless offer and renew they lens lineup very quickly. APS-C and compact camera could be turned to an advantage for Pentax but it is not their priority. The most important lens to renew is 16-50, as competitor Canon and Nikon do not focus on APS-C and have pretty old transstandard zoom too… But they have Sigma, Tokina and Tamron to help…
Last work, if I had to renew all my gear now, I would switch to Fuji. I think there doing very well, XT-3 is a really good camera in all points, and they have tons of good APS-C lenses. They have tiny prime lenses that all have great quality, quiet AF and are weather sealed. They have many professional zooms that perform well. Their lenses seem to be pretty even in quality. They release many new lenses each year, they thrust in APSC, and they also release firmware updates with new features. For a new user, they’re more appealing than Pentax I’am afraid.

But this still can change. With 11-18, a new body and a new 16-50 and I pretty sure Pentax would become super attractive for non pentaxian users, especially as top-quality primes are on the way, and as 70-200 f/2.8 lens already exist and is good, and f/4 is coming. For wildlife photographer, it is more complicated… but there is still the option to have another body and lens for wildlife. For example, for the price of the DA560mm only, it is better to purchase a Nikon D7500 and their new 500 f/5.6 PF. Or a Sigma 500 f/4 with a Canon or Nikon body.

Thanks for reading.

Well that is an interesting question. What in the current lineup could be in portfolio for the coming decade?

First of all......Let's think of what Pentax should be as a brand.

• This is about aps-c, so mainly about the consumer and prosumer. This is about people who are interested in photography, have some or a lot of skills or are willing to learn.
• Pentax's strong site is being small, lightweight, roboust and can handle the outside invironment.
• Pentax is a brand that delivers good on the "bang for the buck" challenge.
• bla

So anything about lenses or camera's in portfolio now that doesn't deliver on this, has to go or be replaced or altered. We are talking about the time span from today until december 31th 2029. So time is on our side.

So how about that catalogue of lenses for aps-c:
- DA prime lenses: 14mm/f2.8, 35mm/f2.4, 40mm/f2.8 XS, 50mm/f1.8
- DA-L lenses: not on the list, but maybe still in a kit with a camera
- DA zoom lenses: 12-24mm, 16-85mm, 18-50mm, 18-55mm wr, 18-135mm, 18-270mm, 50-200mm, 55-300mm PLM, 55-300mm wr
- DA* prime lenses: 55mm/f1.4, *200mm/f2.8, *300mm/f4, 560mm/f5.6
- DA* zoom lenses: 11-18mm/f2.8, 16-50mm/f2.8, 50-135mm/f2.8, 60-250mm/f4
- DA Ltd lenses: 15mm, 20-40mm DC WR, 21mm, 40mm, 70mm
- FA (Ltd) lenses: 31mm, 43mm, 77mm, 50mm/f1.4
- Macro lenses: da 35mm Ltd, d-fa 50mm, d-fa 100mm
- D-FA (*) prime lenses: 35mm/f2, *50mm/f1.4
- D-FA (*) zoom lenses: 15-30mm/f2.8, 24-70mm/f2.8, 28-150mm, *70-200mm/f2.8, 150-450mm
- Fisheye lens: 10-17mm

So that are many lenses. But they also are all over the place when it comes to specs.

What should every lens be in 2030?
- HD coating
- in lens motor
- WR
- Kaf4 (body controle aperture)
- high quality glass for hi pixelcount on sensors

So I would say that a lot of lenses need an update or replacement.
- smc coating on a lot of lenses
- only one Kaf4 lens
- lots of lenses without any SDM, DC or PLM motor
- lenses with no wr
- quality issues, I name old SDM, chromatic aberations with 16-50 and some other lenses, plastic mount on lenses, slow focusing lenses like 50-135 and 60-250.

There is enough work. Some lenses might be replaced by the same but updated lens or replaced by a lens that gives a simular experience.

Enough for discussion I guess.

Thanks for your writing. I did my own view a few pages back. We agree on a lot of things. The 16-50 was a dud when I bought it in 2009, so having that around for another decade is a real no no.

My startpunt would be....
What should every lens be in 2030?
- HD coating
- in lens motor
- WR
- Kaf4 (body controle aperture)
- high quality glass for hi pixelcount on sensors

[totsmuyco]

The customer know the pricing condition, so he will spend 2800 instead of 2200 because he gets more for 2800, that's the whole point. You can also buy a car 1 wheel at a time, then the gear box, engine etc...(you see my point), or you can buy a whole car for a lot less than the sum of the retail price for each piece. What car makers do, they price spare part at a very high price.

---------- Post added 10-02-19 at 23:17 ----------


Me. I don't buy a camera anymore, I buy a complete system when the camera and the set of lenses are available, it is the best way not to rely on eventual future lens that may come or not come.
Last time I bought the K1, I bought 4 lenses the same day. Next time, if I would get a medium format system, I give back all my K mount system and I negotiate the price for a full medium format system including lenses.
Doing so, it's a win win deal, I get what I want for cheaper, and the selling make more money in one shot. Ricoh should scrap the old stuff and offer attractive bundles for new product lines.

For me, I did some research prior to buying next system after my Olympus 4/3. I chose what I like and plan to stick with it it. My style is growing into the system. Accumulating my arsenal little by little. Growing into the system is growing old with it. I chose Pentax. I hope the k-mount will continue till I die. I hope this will be my last system.

Having 2 or more systems is quite expensive and difficult to maintain.

[MrNPhoto]

Correct me if Im wrong but Pentax doesnt often anounce cameras for CP+

Let's find out...looking at the Pentax news section of this site:

Feb 22 2018: K-1 II announced before CP+ 2018
Jan 25 2017: KP announced before CP+ 2017
Jun 8 2016: K-70 announced
Feb 16 2016: GR II Silver edition announced before CP+ 2016
Feb 17 2016: K-1 announced before CP+ 2016
Feb 23 2016: K-3 II Silver edition announced before CP+ 2016
Jun 17 2015: GR II announced
Apr 22 2015: K-3 II announced
Feb 9 2015: K-S2 announced before CP+ 2015
Feb 4 2015: The "Full-frame" DSLR announced before CP+ 2015
Aug 28 2014: K-S1 announced before Photokina 2014
Apr 15 2014: 645Z announced
Oct 7 2013: K-3 announced before PhotoPlus 2013
Jun 12 2013: K-50, K-500 and Q7 announced
Apr 17 2013: GR announced
Jan 7 2013: MX-1 announced before CP+ 2013
Sep 10 2012: K-5 II, K-5 IIs, X5 and Q10 announced before Photokina 2012
May 21 2012: K-30 announced
Feb 2 2012: K-01 announced before CP+ 2012

It seems there is a fair pattern of new cameras being announced about a week or so before the CP+ exposition. Not always, and some major cameras (K-3, 645z) were announced between major expositions. Note that Ricoh tends to announce products the week before the exposition rather than at the opening of the show.

Things have been quiet on the new Pentax DSLR front, and Ricoh's product introduction pace has slowed, so I'm not anticipating a new DSLR at this show.

[Larrymc]

The customer know the pricing condition, so he will spend 2800 instead of 2200 because he gets more for 2800, that's the whole point. You can also buy a car 1 wheel at a time, then the gear box, engine etc...(you see my point), or you can buy a whole car for a lot less than the sum of the retail price for each piece. What car makers do, they price spare part at a very high price.

My Friend, you are very adept at theory but it just doesn't work that way. If I, knowing the pricing condition, wanted to buy just a camera body why in the world would I spent twice as much as I had or needed to to buy that body? I would look elsewhere and never return. No actually I don't see your point. Automobiles have always been sold as an assembly so your argument doesn't hold water. Automobiles are, most of the time. a major purchase for many people and financed for extended periods of time, unless you lease an automobile there by throwing away your hard earned cash. Would you now be in favor of leasing camera equipment also?

Me. I don't buy a camera anymore, I buy a complete system when the camera and the set of lenses are available, it is the best way not to rely on eventual future lens that may come or not come.
Last time I bought the K1, I bought 4 lenses the same day. Next time, if I would get a medium format system, I give back all my K mount system and I negotiate the price for a full medium format system including lenses.
Doing so, it's a win win deal, I get what I want for cheaper, and the selling make more money in one shot. Ricoh should scrap the old stuff and offer attractive bundles for new product lines.

You and your buying experiences are an anomaly in regards to camera buyers in general, in my opinion. Just look through the membership here Most people look upon higher end DSLRs as a quasi "luxury" item not a necessity As what has been said earlier your negotiations at your camera dealer have been with the dealer and not from Ricoh/Pentax,. How do you propose to negotiate with the like of Amazon or B&H? As a matter of fact brick and mortar camera stores that you can go into and negotiate with the proprietor are very rare where I live and are becoming so world wide.