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09-30-2008, 10:12 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
And I really do think the 645D is only a couple tweaks away from being ready to be marketed. A big waste of R&D resources if Hoya will eventually choose to shelve it altogether, much more so since MF is a realm still left untouched by the usual DSLR makers.
I would have a hard deciding what to do if I were one of the top brass in Hoya/Pentax.
The market for 645D is by no means guaranteed, and it would risky either way.

And competition would be fierce, especially if the rumored Nikon MX turns out to be true in just 4 months time.

09-30-2008, 10:17 AM   #32
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Maybe Pentax is simply at the edge with their R&D capacity (K2/3D, K30D, K300D, 645, DSLR lenses). We should keep in mind how long it takes for them to bring new lenses to the market. It could simply be the cheapest and easiest way for them to cover this market segment: just bring out a m4/3 cam with k-mount adapter to make the pancakes etc. available. Full stop. No lenses but the existing DAs and esp. pancakes which are excellent and small. Though this certainly wouldn't be the best way, it would be better than giving up a whole new segment of photography. No lens development necessary, just a body with electronics they probably need to develop for the DSLRs anyhow. Then they can have a little cup of tea and wait whether the EVIL segment grows and needs further attention or fails and can be given up. You don't have to be the champ in the first season, but you have to be in the game. To me this is a cold blooded business decision.
Just my 2 Euro cents.
09-30-2008, 10:23 AM   #33
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That's totally different. Auto 110 has a Pentax mount! And it can only uses Pentax lenses! micro 4/3 does not.
you are right, but my point still stands, they wouldn't have to abandon the K mount and APS-C DSLR's if they developed a micro four thirds camera. the 110 bayonet was just an example that proved my point. besides Pentax could have the best m4/3's lenses on the market. or develop their own system similar to m4/3's to compete. then they really could resurrect the auto 110 style body and lenses. my main point here is that a small compact camera with interchangeable lenses, lacking a mirror/pentaprism is I truly believe going to take over the P&S segment in the not too distant future. and I think Pentax (who has proved itself as being among the best in compact cameras and lenses) would be wise to play this game. using the m4/3's mount is just an option.
09-30-2008, 12:53 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
So this is why Pentax have religiously maintained backward compatability for so long even with the KM?
As I said in another thread....it wouldn't be any time at all until people started writing "K-m" identically with another Pentax camera.....the "KM".

09-30-2008, 01:36 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by JanG Quote
Maybe Pentax is simply at the edge with their R&D capacity (K2/3D, K30D, K300D, 645, DSLR lenses). .

I don't believe a KXD exist unless it is an FF camera. According to the latest interviews theres only the K-m, K200D, K20D; a three model APS line-up. Thats all Pentax marketshare can sustain anyway. Next year the K200D and K20D will be upgraded to the K300D and K30D. The K30D will be a move upmarket; my guess is that the K300D will too. The latter will probably use the 14,6mp whereas the K30D will use a new sensor. My guess also is that The K300D and K30D name will be used for the US only, and that Europe and Japan will get new names along the lines of the K-m.
Pentax have not made any decisions regarding FF or the 645D but will fairly soon.
09-30-2008, 02:48 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
I, for one, don't like the idea of joining micro 4/3 one bit !
If they want to go the hybrid / EVIL route, stick with APS-C and get their own mount, with or without Samsung.

Announcing a plan to go with micro 4/3 would be a devastating blow to existing Pentax users, as it would mean a practical abandonment of K mount...
The K Mount will have to be abandoned sooner or later. When that standard was created shutterless cameras weren't even imaginable. The only reason to stick with it now is to keep legacy users happy. But using it on a EVIL camera (something I feel is the future) would cripple it. It would be unnecessarily large and bulky since a mirror box is no longer needed. m4/3's cameras in comparison would be much, much smaller.

However, I don't see a problem with keeping a few SLR's in the line up for the purist. Canon and Nikon currently do the same thing with film cameras. They could co produce EVIL lenses and SLR K-mount lenses for the next 15 years, then in smaller numbers there after.

I say the more manufactures the better for the m4/3's standard. It would be great for consumers.
09-30-2008, 03:05 PM   #37
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Perspecitves And Innovation

Honestly, I read from the interview that Pentax is not keen to bring us some real innovation in the near future.

Don't beat me, please

I see two sides of the coin. One is that Pentax makes really top photographic tools wich are very capable even compared to the highest standards, and this all for a more than reasonable price point. This and the primes drove me into Pentax, and I never looked back (to Oly or Nikon, though the former has still a sweet spot in my heart). I am glad that I have tools at my hand with which I can accomplish any photographic task I need for the moment, and which didn't cost me an unaffordable price. When I saw the ridiculous prices of the new Leica products, this came to my mind. And I bet that the K20D can produce better results than the M8, at least at higher ISOs.

The other side is that a photographic company needs a touch of dedication to the medium that goes beyond pure shareholder logic. Unfortunately I see this fade with Pentax (at least from the interview in discussion). There will be no compact with a large sensor, there will be no m4/3 or similar product (i bet), and there will be no FF. Ok, I can live without FF, but then bring us a wide tilt shift for APS-C. This would be dedication, because such a thing will not be profitable, but is a must have in my opinion for a serious player in the photographic business. I am sure that Pentax is avoided by some pros and enthusiats that see no way to get a tilt shift in some mid term future. This argument is not even theoretical for me, since I feel the need for such a thing arise. There is some point in a photographers live where the need for perspective control comes.

And come on, why no large sensor compact? This would be part of Pentax' domain IMHO, it should have been done by them first, not Sigma. Why stay with crappy tiny sensors?

Last edited by ratjadi; 09-30-2008 at 04:26 PM.
10-04-2008, 07:06 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by ratjadi Quote
The other side is that a photographic company needs a touch of dedication to the medium that goes beyond pure shareholder logic. Unfortunately I see this fade with Pentax (at least from the interview in discussion). There will be no compact with a large sensor, there will be no m4/3 or similar product (i bet), and there will be no FF. Ok, I can live without FF, but then bring us a wide tilt shift for APS-C.

And come on, why no large sensor compact? This would be part of Pentax' domain IMHO, it should have been done by them first, not Sigma. Why stay with crappy tiny sensors?
Pentax is dedicated to the APS-C format, much more so than any other company. Pentax has more APS-C lenses than the competition.

A tilt and shift lens is a very special lens, before Pentax can make thoose ultra specials they need to offer a full lineup from wide to tele. There is still more important holes in the Pentax lens lineup that are more urgent to adress than a tilt and shift lens.

If you really want a tilt and shift lens, then there's plenty of choices available from other makers that works on Pentax DSLR's.
MC 35 mm Tilt & Shift Pentax lens

Pentax has very little market presence in the digital compact area. Most of their digital compacts has flopped, the sales are falling and Hoya is now outsourcing the production to other companies. Introducing an APS-C digital compact at this stage would be suicide. Pentax simply does not have this status nor the needed market presence that could support a model like that. The Optio range has bad repution, making an APS-C Optio would clearly flopped. Not because it would be a bad camera, but because it would be a Pentax digital compact. Customers does not believe in digital compacts from Pentax, they have lost their faith in Pentax here. The market is too negative towards digital compacts from Pentax so whatever Pentax makes in this market flops.

However, Pentax do has an open door to a more compact micro system camera, and I believe that they would be far more successful with this than an APS-C compact camera with a fixed lens. However, such a solution is a couple of years away so Pentax will not disclose any important information on it in the near future. It is still too secret.

10-04-2008, 08:09 AM   #39
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New DA60-250/4 is FF lens.
10-04-2008, 08:13 AM   #40
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Tokina? Owned by the same company that owns Pentax?

Reeeeaaaaaaallly. Never saw that one coming.
10-04-2008, 02:16 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
New DA60-250/4 is FF lens.
Again, prove it (but I must admit since one would get me pretty excited )
10-05-2008, 06:45 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Again, prove it (but I must admit since one would get me pretty excited )
On October,3, 2008, Russian dealer of Pentax offered presentation of new products.

Pentax - -

Use google translator
10-05-2008, 09:35 AM   #43
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I find the fact that the newest zoom will fill the standard 35mm format very encouraging myself. I would love a larger sensor for my full format lenses.
10-06-2008, 01:59 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by samuis Quote
Ive heard that Hoya purchased Tokina sometime in the 90's.
Hoya is a "public" company and Tokina/Kenko is a private company. That makes it tricky to sort out. It could be that individuals at Hoya own significant stock in Tokina. That's why it doesn't show up on Hoya's financial reports. I've never seen a Tokina/Kenko financial report.
10-06-2008, 07:08 PM   #45
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Crappy Sensors?

QuoteOriginally posted by ratjadi Quote
Why stay with crappy tiny sensors
Oh give me a break. The pictures taken by the K20D are crap then? Do you have eyes like Superman?
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