No sign of Ricoh/Pentax at the UK's biggest camera fest.

MarkJerling · 02-17-2019, 04:28 PM

Still confused - Can still buy Cherry Coke as far as I'm aware, but we hardly ever buy Coke.

tokyoscape · 02-17-2019, 04:34 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

You think it might be with like what happend to Cherry Coke?

Cherry Coke? wait until you try Coffee Cola!

**Larrymc** · 02-17-2019, 04:42 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

I was wondering the same thing.
Maybe it lost out to Cherry Pepsi.
Our larder has 7 bottles of some variant of Cherry Diet Pepsi - which is what I'm drinking right now.

Careful of that Aspartame!

**jpzk** · 02-17-2019, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by tokyoscape

Cherry Coke? wait until you try Coffee Cola!

Might as well add some Monster Energy or Red Bull while you're at it !!

So, have a Coffee Cola and wash it down with the above ... that'll keep you up during important meetings !

**monochrome** · 02-17-2019, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

What happened to cherry coke?

Saw a 12-Pack at the grocery today. As long as Warren Buffet insists, they’ll continue to make the flavor. (In a way Cherry Coke is like Pentax)

RonHendriks1966 · 02-18-2019, 01:15 AM

I was wrong, it was the "new coke" that made the war with pepsi intense

'New Coke' Revisited: 30 Years After Coca-Cola?s Infamous Taste Change | AllBusiness.com

But mirrorless didn't do that yet

biz-engineer · 02-18-2019, 04:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

But mirrorless didn't do that yet

There is something to think about from that story. Currently, most mirror-less models aren't that good because they reuse the sensors that were originally designed for DSLR. For example, the GFX50S and GFX50R low light AF capability is not even as good as a Pentax K5 or previous Pentax models. The EOS R series requires fast lenses f2, with banding. Nikon Z also struggle to AF in low light or missed on dark subjects. Sony A7III with a kit lens is slower to lock as then a Pentax K1 (evidence by using both cameras with the kit lens, site by site). But, when new generation of sensors will be designed for mirror-less, (including things such as direct readout of some sensor areas without having to read pixels of the whole sensor areas), mirror-less cameras will work better. So once new image sensors will be designed to provide mirrorless specific features, it will be unlikely that DSLR makes a come back. Currently, most mirror-less cameras aren't that impressive vs good dslr tech., the advantage of mirror-less is more located in the marketing departments.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-18-2019 at 04:29 AM.

Zygonyx · 02-18-2019, 06:31 AM

Biz-engineer, Sony A7rIII and A7S sensors are fully designed for ml.
So for the new Canon RP and Nikon Z7.
The artifacts are still there.

biz-engineer · 02-18-2019, 06:50 AM

How do you know that the A7rIII and A7S sensor are designed for mirrorless? Do you have the part number of those sensors and the full specification?

RonHendriks1966 · 02-18-2019, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

So once new image sensors will be designed to provide mirrorless specific features, it will be unlikely that DSLR makes a come back.

I think so too. But there is no money for this development since camera sensor sales are just a low part of sensor sales these days.

alcstudios · 02-18-2019, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

There is something to think about from that story. Currently, most mirror-less models aren't that good because they reuse the sensors that were originally designed for DSLR. For example, the GFX50S and GFX50R low light AF capability is not even as good as a Pentax K5 or previous Pentax models. The EOS R series requires fast lenses f2, with banding. Nikon Z also struggle to AF in low light or missed on dark subjects. Sony A7III with a kit lens is slower to lock as then a Pentax K1 (evidence by using both cameras with the kit lens, site by site). But, when new generation of sensors will be designed for mirror-less, (including things such as direct readout of some sensor areas without having to read pixels of the whole sensor areas), mirror-less cameras will work better. So once new image sensors will be designed to provide mirrorless specific features, it will be unlikely that DSLR makes a come back. Currently, most mirror-less cameras aren't that impressive vs good dslr tech., the advantage of mirror-less is more located in the marketing departments.

I hope DSLR's don't have to make a come back but that is the unfortunate part about the marketing, The manufactures are putting pressure on the retailers to push mirrorless. I just bought 2 D500's last October and when I go to my local camera store, same salesman by the way... he is always showing me the Z cameras even though he is the same person I just bought the DSLR's from. He knows I'm not going to bite that hook but keeps pushing anyways probably cause his boss is watching.. I may have to go online only.

Someone that wants their first ILC is going to pushed into the lowest level mirrorless with an ugly upgrade path to boot.

RonHendriks1966 · 02-18-2019, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by alcstudios

I hope DSLR's don't have to make a come back but that is the unfortunate part about the marketing, The manufactures are putting pressure on the retailers to push mirrorless. I just bought 2 D500's last October and when I go to my local camera store, same salesman by the way... he is always showing me the Z cameras even though he is the same person I just bought the DSLR's from. He knows I'm not going to bite that hook but keeps pushing anyways probably cause his boss is watching.. I may have to go online only.

Someone that wants their first ILC is going to pushed into the lowest level mirrorless with an ugly upgrade path to boot.

You know you want to be part of the good crowd........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

biz-engineer · 02-18-2019, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

You know you want to be part of the good crowd........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

D810 -> D850 -> Z7 in 3 years, it's a solid upgrade path for Nikon users. That's about $9000 for IBIS and more AF points.

phoebus · 02-18-2019, 11:10 AM

Getting back to the original post... ...talked to some Ricoh guys at the weekend - the absence from the 'Photography Show' at NEC this March is purely down to European marketing budget, or lack of it. Apparently, if the show was a couple of weeks later it would have been OK - April is 'next' year. Photokina absorbed too much this year.

Personally I think it is a great shame - there are so few opportunities to handle Pentax kit elsewhere. I know of someone with a KP and a number of limited lenses that was bought purely as a result of handling a KP with the 20-40 at the last show.

RonHendriks1966 · 02-18-2019, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by phoebus

Personally I think it is a great shame - there are so few opportunities to handle Pentax kit elsewhere. I know of someone with a KP and a number of limited lenses that was bought purely as a result of handling a KP with the 20-40 at the last show.

It was probably cheaper to not attend the show and give such a set as a present. Shows are so expensive. Renting space, making a booth, bringing personal to staff the booth, hotel cost, transport cost, salary cost, eating and drinking.....flyers, presents for visitors, maybe hiring someone to give a lecture. ....the list goes on and on.

02-18-2019, 06:50 AM	#84
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	How do you know that the A7rIII and A7S sensor are designed for mirrorless? Do you have the part number of those sensors and the full specification? Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-18-2019 at 06:55 AM.

02-18-2019, 10:39 AM	#88
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 You know you want to be part of the good crowd........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ D810 -> D850 -> Z7 in 3 years, it's a solid upgrade path for Nikon users. That's about $9000 for IBIS and more AF points. Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-18-2019 at 10:50 AM.

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02-17-2019, 04:28 PM	#76
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Still confused - Can still buy Cherry Coke as far as I'm aware, but we hardly ever buy Coke.

02-17-2019, 04:34 PM - 2 Likes	#77
tokyoscape Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,256	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 You think it might be with like what happend to Cherry Coke? Cherry Coke? wait until you try Coffee Cola!

02-17-2019, 04:42 PM - 1 Like	#78
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by reh321 I was wondering the same thing. Maybe it lost out to Cherry Pepsi. Our larder has 7 bottles of some variant of Cherry Diet Pepsi - which is what I'm drinking right now. Careful of that Aspartame!

02-17-2019, 04:55 PM	#79
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by tokyoscape Cherry Coke? wait until you try Coffee Cola! Might as well add some Monster Energy or Red Bull while you're at it !! So, have a Coffee Cola and wash it down with the above ... that'll keep you up during important meetings !

02-17-2019, 10:50 PM	#80
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by MarkJerling What happened to cherry coke? Saw a 12-Pack at the grocery today. As long as Warren Buffet insists, they’ll continue to make the flavor. (In a way Cherry Coke is like Pentax)

02-18-2019, 01:15 AM	#81
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	I was wrong, it was the "new coke" that made the war with pepsi intense 'New Coke' Revisited: 30 Years After Coca-Cola?s Infamous Taste Change \| AllBusiness.com But mirrorless didn't do that yet

02-18-2019, 04:22 AM - 1 Like	#82
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 But mirrorless didn't do that yet There is something to think about from that story. Currently, most mirror-less models aren't that good because they reuse the sensors that were originally designed for DSLR. For example, the GFX50S and GFX50R low light AF capability is not even as good as a Pentax K5 or previous Pentax models. The EOS R series requires fast lenses f2, with banding. Nikon Z also struggle to AF in low light or missed on dark subjects. Sony A7III with a kit lens is slower to lock as then a Pentax K1 (evidence by using both cameras with the kit lens, site by site). But, when new generation of sensors will be designed for mirror-less, (including things such as direct readout of some sensor areas without having to read pixels of the whole sensor areas), mirror-less cameras will work better. So once new image sensors will be designed to provide mirrorless specific features, it will be unlikely that DSLR makes a come back. Currently, most mirror-less cameras aren't that impressive vs good dslr tech., the advantage of mirror-less is more located in the marketing departments. Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-18-2019 at 04:29 AM.

02-18-2019, 06:31 AM	#83
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Biz-engineer, Sony A7rIII and A7S sensors are fully designed for ml. So for the new Canon RP and Nikon Z7. The artifacts are still there.

02-18-2019, 07:31 AM	#85
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by biz-engineer So once new image sensors will be designed to provide mirrorless specific features, it will be unlikely that DSLR makes a come back. I think so too. But there is no money for this development since camera sensor sales are just a low part of sensor sales these days.

02-18-2019, 09:30 AM	#86
alcstudios Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Albums Posts: 146	Originally posted by biz-engineer There is something to think about from that story. Currently, most mirror-less models aren't that good because they reuse the sensors that were originally designed for DSLR. For example, the GFX50S and GFX50R low light AF capability is not even as good as a Pentax K5 or previous Pentax models. The EOS R series requires fast lenses f2, with banding. Nikon Z also struggle to AF in low light or missed on dark subjects. Sony A7III with a kit lens is slower to lock as then a Pentax K1 (evidence by using both cameras with the kit lens, site by site). But, when new generation of sensors will be designed for mirror-less, (including things such as direct readout of some sensor areas without having to read pixels of the whole sensor areas), mirror-less cameras will work better. So once new image sensors will be designed to provide mirrorless specific features, it will be unlikely that DSLR makes a come back. Currently, most mirror-less cameras aren't that impressive vs good dslr tech., the advantage of mirror-less is more located in the marketing departments. I hope DSLR's don't have to make a come back but that is the unfortunate part about the marketing, The manufactures are putting pressure on the retailers to push mirrorless. I just bought 2 D500's last October and when I go to my local camera store, same salesman by the way... he is always showing me the Z cameras even though he is the same person I just bought the DSLR's from. He knows I'm not going to bite that hook but keeps pushing anyways probably cause his boss is watching.. I may have to go online only. Someone that wants their first ILC is going to pushed into the lowest level mirrorless with an ugly upgrade path to boot.

02-18-2019, 09:42 AM	#87
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by alcstudios I hope DSLR's don't have to make a come back but that is the unfortunate part about the marketing, The manufactures are putting pressure on the retailers to push mirrorless. I just bought 2 D500's last October and when I go to my local camera store, same salesman by the way... he is always showing me the Z cameras even though he is the same person I just bought the DSLR's from. He knows I'm not going to bite that hook but keeps pushing anyways probably cause his boss is watching.. I may have to go online only. Someone that wants their first ILC is going to pushed into the lowest level mirrorless with an ugly upgrade path to boot. You know you want to be part of the good crowd........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

02-18-2019, 11:10 AM	#89
phoebus Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Buckinghamshire (UK) / Morbihan (FR) Photos: Gallery Posts: 470	Getting back to the original post... ...talked to some Ricoh guys at the weekend - the absence from the 'Photography Show' at NEC this March is purely down to European marketing budget, or lack of it. Apparently, if the show was a couple of weeks later it would have been OK - April is 'next' year. Photokina absorbed too much this year. Personally I think it is a great shame - there are so few opportunities to handle Pentax kit elsewhere. I know of someone with a KP and a number of limited lenses that was bought purely as a result of handling a KP with the 20-40 at the last show.

02-18-2019, 11:18 AM	#90
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by phoebus Personally I think it is a great shame - there are so few opportunities to handle Pentax kit elsewhere. I know of someone with a KP and a number of limited lenses that was bought purely as a result of handling a KP with the 20-40 at the last show. It was probably cheaper to not attend the show and give such a set as a present. Shows are so expensive. Renting space, making a booth, bringing personal to staff the booth, hotel cost, transport cost, salary cost, eating and drinking.....flyers, presents for visitors, maybe hiring someone to give a lecture. ....the list goes on and on.