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02-20-2019, 11:42 AM - 3 Likes   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
It happens in many industries. And always there are managers that didn't see it coming. It happend to Smart (a car company from Mercedes) when they introduced the first model Smart ForFour that was produced in The Netherlands. There where like no sales, because people thought it was ugly. The factory was producing as sceduled.....planned production for 100.000 cars in a year. At some point the inventory of ready and unsold car exceeded 25.0000. Parking lots everywhere where rented to put those cars somewhere.......until someone had the bright idea to stop production.
Those times are over. Now, we are at the age of fast prototyping (made in China). I can design a new PCB, send the manufacturing file over to China and have 100 units made in China for cheap and have them delivered three weeks later by Fedex. Computer aided design and manufacturing allow small production series at unit cost close to high volume production. It's all a matter of how to organize. I believe it is possible to design a new camera model with a small company, less than 50 people , thank to the industry being a lot more horizontal now than what used to be vertically integrated in the 1980s.


Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-20-2019 at 11:49 AM.
02-20-2019, 11:49 AM - 7 Likes   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
If that is your feeling about new camera's, that is fine with with me.
You've got dodge and weave down...
You're certainly entitled to your consistent and persistent negative diatribe on Pentax whether it's current photo gear or something yet unannounced. We all have opinions and yours is just one.


Why not do something fun, post a few of your images or involve yourself in some helpful pointers on technique for our newer shooters? There's plenty of time to write all the bad things about the new Pentax camera AFTER they've released it and you know what it's about based on something more than presumption.

Last edited by gatorguy; 02-20-2019 at 11:54 AM.
02-20-2019, 12:50 PM - 4 Likes   #63
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There is a huge market opportunity for construction-type cameras. Huge.

If a manufacturer came out with a 1" sensor camera, waterproof-ish to 5m (essentially just weather and puddle-proof), with a 28-100mm zoom range, 12-16MP for larger pixel pitch, shot RAW + jpeg, OVF and basic screen for live view, and microSD compatibility, it would sell like hotcakes if less than $600ish. If it had a wifi-to-desktop file transfer option, and a "put the camera in a rack" recharging option, it would be an instant slam dunk.

I work for an engineering firm and have years of field experience in tough weather conditions. Two years ago I was on a site running 24/7 in rainforest conditions. All the other field engineers were either foolishly using their phones, or using company-bought Olympus tough-cameras (which were junk in good light, and near useless at night conditions with construction lighting). Visual documentation was extremely important. I brought an old RX100m2 and a waterproof case and fielded endless questions about how I was able to deliver high quality pictures in any condition, when no other field personnel could manage anything close.

For that one 12-month project, they would have bought 3 of those cameras expecting to toss them after. My local office of a gigantic engineering firm would buy 5 for our office without blinking an eye, just to tuck away for engineers to use making field visits. They would be a huge hit with contractors and inspection technicians too if it's a proven tough camera with superior optics and ease of download. The sheer number of companies that are already looking for this dwarfs the market for hobbyist and consumer photographers, and those companies often come without the cost concerns that individual consumers would have.

The right targetted marketing, with a proven track record of success, would put tons of these into the field.
02-20-2019, 12:55 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by disasterfilm Quote
There is a huge market opportunity for construction-type cameras. Huge.

If a manufacturer came out with a 1" sensor camera, waterproof-ish to 5m (essentially just weather and puddle-proof), with a 28-100mm zoom range, 12-16MP for larger pixel pitch, shot RAW + jpeg, OVF and basic screen for live view, and microSD compatibility, it would sell like hotcakes if less than $600ish. If it had a wifi-to-desktop file transfer option, and a "put the camera in a rack" recharging option, it would be an instant slam dunk.

I work for an engineering firm and have years of field experience in tough weather conditions. Two years ago I was on a site running 24/7 in rainforest conditions. All the other field engineers were either foolishly using their phones, or using company-bought Olympus tough-cameras (which were junk in good light, and near useless at night conditions with construction lighting). Visual documentation was extremely important. I brought an old RX100m2 and a waterproof case and fielded endless questions about how I was able to deliver high quality pictures in any condition, when no other field personnel could manage anything close.

For that one 12-month project, they would have bought 3 of those cameras expecting to toss them after. My local office of a gigantic engineering firm would buy 5 for our office without blinking an eye, just to tuck away for engineers to use making field visits. They would be a huge hit with contractors and inspection technicians too if it's a proven tough camera with superior optics and ease of download. The sheer number of companies that are already looking for this dwarfs the market for hobbyist and consumer photographers, and those companies often come without the cost concerns that individual consumers would have.

The right targetted marketing, with a proven track record of success, would put tons of these into the field.
But it has to be a good imaging device and not with a tiny sensor.......

02-20-2019, 01:08 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
But it has to be a good imaging device and not with a tiny sensor.......
Right, the sensor (and not cheaping out on the lens) are the lynch pins in all this. If the R02020 is going to be the standard cell camera-sized sensor, Olympus has already beaten them to the punch. These things need to do better in the worst lighting possible to blow the market up.

If the 5-year-old RX100m2 was weather and puddleproof, it would be the industry standard (for an non-photography industry with way more potential capital). Forego the bells and whistles of all the new models.
02-20-2019, 01:11 PM   #66
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I saw that there will be a new WG-6 (a new WR camera for the first time in 6 years!) which will also be rebranded as the industrial-grade G900. Perhaps the number is referring to one of these?

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02-20-2019, 01:19 PM - 1 Like   #67
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The key information is right in front of us, the product code is for a Ricoh product, so it is not an interchangeable lens camera, and the registration is for Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. Bluetooth is showing up in cameras as a replacement for NFC, as a way to painlessly connect to casual Wi-Fi networks. The only Ricoh products with such a pairing of wireless interfaces are the GR-III and Theta. The "new" WG-60 still only offers wireless connectivity through an Eye-fi SD card (which should be illegal, it is such a slow and unreliable interface) and while the WG-M2 has Wi-Fi built in, neither NFC or Bluetooth is paired with it. So take your pick, either the WG-60 or the WG-M2 gets another update (which happens on a relatively frequent basis for the WG line).

---------- Post added 02-20-19 at 02:24 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
which will also be rebranded as the industrial-grade G900
If this is the case, then the G900 will be sans radio, for security reasons, and it won't show up in registration databases for radio devices.

02-20-2019, 01:39 PM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
The key information is right in front of us, the product code is for a Ricoh product, so it is not an interchangeable lens camera, and the registration is for Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. Bluetooth is showing up in cameras as a replacement for NFC, as a way to painlessly connect to casual Wi-Fi networks. The only Ricoh products with such a pairing of wireless interfaces are the GR-III and Theta. The "new" WG-60 still only offers wireless connectivity through an Eye-fi SD card (which should be illegal, it is such a slow and unreliable interface) and while the WG-M2 has Wi-Fi built in, neither NFC or Bluetooth is paired with it. So take your pick, either the WG-60 or the WG-M2 gets another update (which happens on a relatively frequent basis for the WG line).

---------- Post added 02-20-19 at 02:24 PM ----------

If this is the case, then the G900 will be sans radio, for security reasons, and it won't show up in registration databases for radio devices.
No, I don't think so, the predecessor is available with both radio devices:
RICOH G800SE | Digital Cameras | Industrial Products | Ricoh
02-20-2019, 02:11 PM - 2 Likes   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Ooh, Ooh... Let me guess. Whatever this new Ricoh camera is you've already determined it's horridly designed, nothing new, only useful for niche cases, and doomed to fail. Did I cover it all?
No, you did not cover it all.....

Ricoh will have a touchy-feely demonstration in 2021 and the camera will be ready in 2026

You're welcome
02-20-2019, 02:13 PM   #70
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The WG series biggest fail is the lack of RAW file format. Really it makes the WG not worth considering what ever sensor they use. Only Olympus's rugged compact like this does RAW. Surprisingly Panasonic's Lumix version doesn't do RAW either.
02-20-2019, 02:25 PM - 2 Likes   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
But it has to be a good imaging device and not with a tiny sensor.......
People will not ask how large the sensor is - they will ask if the resulting photos are adequate for their needs.
02-20-2019, 02:28 PM - 2 Likes   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
The WG series biggest fail is the lack of RAW file format. Really it makes the WG not worth considering what ever sensor they use. Only Olympus's rugged compact like this does RAW. Surprisingly Panasonic's Lumix version doesn't do RAW either.
Maybe the regular users of these cameras don't want to camp in front of a computer 'developing' raw files to get JPEG; maybe SOOC JPEG meets their needs.
02-20-2019, 02:28 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
The WG series biggest fail is the lack of RAW file format. Really it makes the WG not worth considering what ever sensor they use. Only Olympus's rugged compact like this does RAW. Surprisingly Panasonic's Lumix version doesn't do RAW either.
I agree! The lack of raw and some weird constraints in usability make it not worth for my documentation purposes. You can, for instance, not use shutter priority and interval timer at the same time. Or something like that (doesn't matter, guess you got my point. I tried to use it in kite aerial photography, which is useless, because I can not set a short shutter speed, I can not fix the white balance and the intervalometer sucks.

Why can't a rugged camera have the same user interface as a GR, or even a Q? Yes, less buttons and wheels, I get it, but even if it would be far from convenient, just give me a full manual mode and RAW and the camera is so much more useful.
02-20-2019, 02:35 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Maybe the regular users of these cameras don't want to camp in front of a computer 'developing' raw files to get JPEG; maybe SOOC JPEG meets their needs.
A totally Novel idea!!
02-20-2019, 02:43 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Why can't a rugged camera have the same user interface as a GR, or even a Q? Yes, less buttons and wheels, I get it, but even if it would be far from convenient, just give me a full manual mode and RAW and the camera is so much more useful.
A name like "WG6" implies that it is not the first camera like this from Ricoh. Since Ricoh has already sold generations of WG, I'm guessing they know what the market for these cameras wants.
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