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02-11-2020, 11:55 AM   #976
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no opportunity to talk about incompetence - Pentax dances very well when dancing around the edge, but for users to plan when and how to buy new lenses would be nice of Ricoh, to enable this to its old and new users ,nice to fill the mid-range gap for advanced users ,yet to make DFA * 24-70 / 2.8 and the current ones lower the price and set up with DFA 70-200 / 4 (its place is there)


Last edited by mbukal; 02-11-2020 at 12:10 PM.
02-11-2020, 12:04 PM - 3 Likes   #977
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QuoteOriginally posted by WorksAsIntended Quote
When it comes down to a big (or even small business) imho there is no "too serious".

When I invest in a local startup and see such mistakes I talk to them and advice them on how to get this perfected or at least where they might find information to find a working solution for themselves (I do realize that our solution is not the right for everyone and as long as the result is there in the end I do not care at all how it is achieved). When I see a lot of such mistakes happen and no improvement, I stop my financal support to cut my risk of financal losses. If this is the right thing to do or not, others do the same, also on big scales.

If a brand has been sold twice within a couple of years and is in a declining market with small share there is simply no space for stupid mistakes and if I were a big shareholder this might influence my decission if I invest or not. Again: It is not about a roadmap being updated in time or not. It is about a company/brand that needs to work in a efficiant way leaving as little room for human error as possible. This means they need to have a workflow pipeline and in this case it is faulty or non existent, the later being worse.

---------- Post added 02-11-20 at 07:46 AM ----------



In what way does this make any sense as a response to what I wrote?

The original statement to which I replied was that they may not update the roadmap because they need to make consientious backchecking with the actual development. Between the roadmap versions a lot of stuff changed (change from 70-200 to 70-210 as a recent example). If this would have all been points carefully evaluated the evaluation would have been corrected many times which means a way to nonlinear development. This is something that would mean a loss of ressources on projects without outcome and would be bad for business. I do not think this is the case, hopefully not. This however means that there is no "waiting for development and carefully checking if the new roadmap information will be exactly true".
Wow, what a pretentious post. Time for some self reflection... If I would be a business seeking for advice I would know where not to look for. Good luck with your business.
02-11-2020, 12:06 PM   #978
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QuoteOriginally posted by mbukal Quote
no opportunity to talk about incompetence - Pentax dances very well when dancing around the edge, but for users to plan when and how to buy new lenses, it would be fair of Ricoh to allow his old and new users, nice to fill the gap in the middle range for advanced users, still to make DFA * 24-70 / 2.8 and the current cheaper and settle sideways DFA70-200 / 4 (its place is there)
Just for clarification as I did not fully understand the post:
Do you wish for the development of new lenses, a DFA* 24-70 / 2.8 II and a DFA70-200 in addition to the current lineup?

---------- Post added 02-11-20 at 12:16 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Wow, what a pretentious post. Time for some self reflection... If I would be a business seeking for advice I would know where not to look for. Good luck with your business.
I am not a business advisor and I would never think I know enough about business to advice any big scale business. In fact I pay others to do this job in my own business and give them full power to decide such things. I do however invest in local businesses a lot and I am not keen to loose money because of people not working with modern tools or doing mistakes because of not following easy concepts.
You know why some people earn a hell lot of money as consultments? Because most mistakes are extremly easy to avoid and a lot of businesses get much more efficient with only a few minor tweaks.
In this case use any project managment tool that it is out there, have a preset for "new product available" and you cannot miss updating the roadmap or at least archive it. It is ok to have a web page that with a date to discripe a current state and let it get out of date. But when it is just generally there and stating "current state" without a date put to it, it is just bad marketing.
02-11-2020, 12:16 PM   #979
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QuoteOriginally posted by WorksAsIntended Quote
Just for clarification as I did not fully understand the post:
Do you wish for the development of new lenses, a DFA* 24-70 / 2.8 II and a DFA70-200 in addition to the current lineup?

---------- Post added 02-11-20 at 12:16 PM ----------



I am not a business advisor and I would never think I know enough about business to advice any big scale business. In fact I pay others to do this job in my own business and give them full power to decide such things. I do however invest in local businesses a lot and I am not keen to loose money because of people not working with modern tools or doing mistakes because of not following easy concepts.
You know why some people earn a hell lot of money as consultments? Because most mistakes are extremly easy to avoid and a lot of businesses get much more efficient with only a few minor tweaks.
In this case use any project managment tool that it is out there, have a preset for "new product available" and you cannot miss updating the roadmap or at least archive it. It is ok to have a web page that with a date to discripe a current state and let it get out of date. But when it is just generally there and stating "current state" without a date put to it, it is just bad marketing.


sorry, english is not my native language, i speak english very bad (cockney english wtf.), not exist/there is no DFA*24-70/2,8, i meant DFA * 24-70 / 2.8, he would answer with DFA * 70-200 / 2.8, current DFA24- 70 / 2.8 would fit with DFA 70-200 / 4, were I clear now


Last edited by mbukal; 02-11-2020 at 12:26 PM.
02-11-2020, 12:19 PM   #980
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Wow, what a pretentious post. Time for some self reflection... If I would be a business seeking for advice I would know where not to look for. Good luck with your business.
I am not a business advisor and I would never think I know enough about business to advice any big scale business. In fact I pay others to do this job in my own business and give them full power to decide such things. I do however invest in local businesses a lot and I am not keen to loose money because of people not working with modern tools or doing mistakes because of not following easy concepts.
You know why some people earn a hell lot of money as consultments? Because most mistakes are extremly easy to avoid and a lot of businesses get much more efficient with only a few minor tweaks.
In this case use any project managment tool that it is out there, have a preset for "new product available" and you cannot miss updating the roadmap or at least archive it. It is ok to have a web page that with a date to discripe a current state and let it get out of date. But when it is just generally there and stating "current state" without a date put to it, it is just bad marketing.

---------- Post added 02-11-20 at 12:22 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mbukal Quote
sorry, english is not my native language, i speak english very bad (cockney english wtf.), i meant DFA * 24-70 / 2.8, he would answer with DFA * 70-200 / 2.8, current DFA24- 70 / 2.8 would fit with DFA 70-200 / 4, were I clear now
Got it now, thanks for clarification.
02-11-2020, 01:05 PM - 10 Likes   #981
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Always when you think you have already seen the most nonsense childish "reasons" for internet users to become agitated and teach the world the "truth" how it has to be (stomping of the little feet), then someone comes along with a new low point.

Today en vogue: A consumer electronics company did not update a speculative content file when Joe the Plumber wanted it. Darn!

Geez.
02-11-2020, 01:10 PM - 5 Likes   #982
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QuoteOriginally posted by WorksAsIntended Quote
It is not about the roadmap. It is about organisating workflows. If there is a possibility to "forget" something like a road map update, there is a huge problem going on and it is a mess. Quite simple. If they do not forget but choose to not put the 5 mins of work into the update, there is another huge problem going on.
You and I (and everyone else here) know nothing of Ricoh Imaging's "workflows". To surmise from an out-of-date lens roadmap that there is a "huge problem" and it's "a mess" is, frankly, ridiculous and not just a little inflammatory. Let's keep things in perspective, eh?

I remind you of our recent exchange:

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam:
PentaxForums is a brand-specific community. If casual visitors and readers of our posts (which are publicly accessible through internet search engine results) observe frequent negativity in the largest Pentax-dedicated community, that's really not a good look nor a positive influence for the brand, IMHO.
QuoteOriginally posted by WorksAsIntended:
I agree that this is enough of bad topics and I will try to focus more on pictures than sales perspectives.
I did not mean to be all negative, again, I do like my cameras.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 02-11-2020 at 01:46 PM.
02-11-2020, 01:10 PM   #983
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This is exactly the outcome:
Products?RICOH IMAGING CANADA
It is NOT about the roadmap but the fact they obviously miss the "auto" updates. Nicely presented with a "new" K1 II and K50 and K3 II in the current lineup on the link above.

02-11-2020, 01:39 PM - 1 Like   #984
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QuoteOriginally posted by WorksAsIntended Quote
This is exactly the outcome:Products?RICOH IMAGING CANADAIt is NOT about the roadmap but the fact they obviously miss the "auto" updates. Nicely presented with a "new" K1 II and K50 and K3 II in the current lineup on the link above.
While I do not have an issue with the lens roadmap per se, I do agree that some things about Ricoh Imaging's marketing or promotional practices seem a bit 'off', shall we say. I don't know how Ricoh Imaging's global operations are structured or how their internal communications works. However, the Canadian site is generally not kept up to date. Indeed, on the Canadian site today we see the "introduction" of the KP and K-70; the "new" K-1 II; the K-3 II listed in the product page; and the GR II (as in 2, not a typo) being highlighted in the home splash page. But, no mention of the latest 70-210mm lens.

Of course, like many members here, I'm very aware of the Pentax product line and new items. So, the Canadian web site doesn't misguide me to odd things. However, imagine someone in Canada who is just looking into Pentax for the first time -- they won't get an accurate picture from Ricoh Imaging .ca.

To me, I find it strange that a relatively straightforward web site is not attended to; it's a relatively simple affair. Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with George and his boss Mr. Kruger -- "Don't you even care? It's your name on the outside of the building. Speaking of which, the R fell off..."

In the end, I'm not overly concerned, and I'm happy with my Pentax gear, no question on that. I'd be happier, though, if I could only decipher "Improved stability for general performance."

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 02-11-2020 at 02:09 PM.
02-11-2020, 02:07 PM   #985
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
While I do not have an issue with the lens roadmap per se, I do agree that some things about Ricoh Imaging's marketing or promotional practices seem a bit 'off', shall we say. I don't know how Ricoh Imaging's global operations are structured or how their internal communications works. However, the Canadian site is generally not kept up to date. Indeed, on the Canadian site today we see the "introduction" of the KP and K-70; the "new" K-1 II; the K-3 II listed in the product page; and the GR II (as in 2, not a typo) being highlighted in the home splash page. But, no mention of the latest 70-210mm lens.

Of course, like many members here, I'm very aware of the Pentax product line and new items. So, the Canadian web site doesn't misguide me to odd things. However, imagine someone in Canada who is just looking into Pentax for the first time -- they won't get an accurate picture from Ricoh Imaging .ca.

To me, I find it strange that a relatively straightforward web site is not attended to; it's a relatively simple affair. In the end, I'm not overly concerned, and I'm happy with my Pentax gear, no question on that.

I'd be happier if I could only decipher "Improved stability for general performance."

- Craig
I could find no trace of the 70-210 on the swedish site either. In addition their map of resellers throws errors and show shops that have gone bust or no longer sell Pentax.
02-11-2020, 02:09 PM   #986
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QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
(...)

I'd be happier if I could only decipher "Improved stability for general performance."

(...)
Bug fixes.
02-11-2020, 03:43 PM - 1 Like   #987
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Always when you think you have already seen the most nonsense childish "reasons" for internet users to become agitated and teach the world the "truth" how it has to be (stomping of the little feet), then someone comes along with a new low point.
What? Don't you know we have plenty of armchair experts and business engineers which can teach Ricoh how to run their business?

We're so lucky to have these masterminds within us!
02-11-2020, 03:46 PM - 9 Likes   #988
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Folks, this thread has covered all the constructive ground it could, plus an awful lot more besides (not all of it so constructive). It's probably a good time to close it, I think most of you would agree...
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