KP custom，DFA*85/1.4 CP+ Exhibit

aurele · 09-30-2019, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Class A

I was toying with the idea of acquiring an FA* 85

If you like the way the FA31 (or the DA*55) do render on FF, the FA*85 is really in the same vein. Same style, same kind of rendering.

It's very nice, but a bit heavy. Balance well on the K1. I would'nt spend like 1k$ on it though.

**Serkevan** · 09-30-2019, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by repaap

Small objects are easy to have shallow dof. Put people in the shot, halfbody of bust portrait. Hec even fullbody 'enviromental' portrait. Now let's talk about fast lenses after that and need of them for those kind of shots. You need long distance already at 105, let alone 85. Tight head portrait could be more easy.

Bust portraits on 135mm equivalent (so 85ish on crop) are doable. At a distance of let's say, 2-3 metres to the subject, everything at 5+ metres from you is going to be nicely blurred... Sure, maybe not as much, but still longer is more important than faster as long as you have the room to pull back.
I unfortunately cannot show any portraits because they are all friends and family and I will not upload those shots.

Sandy Hancock · 09-30-2019, 02:59 PM - **8 Likes**

Originally posted by Class A

I'm curious as to why you prefer the 77, as the FA* 85 has a legendary reputation.

I did specify "most of the time" - because it's relatively tiny, so I'm more likely to pack it. It is also less intimidating for less experienced models.

Crop:

Full frame:

I love breaking out the FA*85 for planned portraits sessions though. It really is wonderful.

normhead · 09-30-2019, 06:49 PM

Not to mention the 77 was voted by forum members the best Pentax lens ever.
It end up being between the 31 and 77 in the final.

Pentax Lens Tournament | PentaxForums.com

**Mikesul** · 09-30-2019, 06:58 PM

But we can hope that the DFA* 85 1.4 which we have been promised will establish a new standard.

redpit · 09-30-2019, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by Mikesul

But we can hope that the DFA* 85 1.4 which we have been promised will establish a new standard.

Exactly. I have the FA 50/1.4 a beautiful small lens that I use on my K-1 and mostly on K-5IIs mainly for portraits. I'm pleased with the rendering and the vintage look although I can see the CA and the softness wide open, which I consider normal for any given lens. Then I had the chance to try the DFA* 50/1.4! WOW, I can say that these are 50/1.4, K mount lenses and pretty much there end any common characteristics these lenses share! You have to try and see for yourself what we are talking about and Mikesul correctly described as "new standard".

**Rondec** · 10-01-2019, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Not to mention the 77 was voted by forum members the best Pentax lens ever.
It end up being between the 31 and 77 in the final.

Pentax Lens Tournament | PentaxForums.com

I know it was voted that, but it didn't make sense to me at the time or now. Compared with lenses like the FA *85, FA 200 f4 macro, and some of the other truly special lenses that Pentax has put out over the years, it is hard for me to call it the best Pentax lens ever.

Don't get me wrong, I really like it, particularly on full frame, but it does have its flaws.

Kunzite · 10-01-2019, 03:13 AM - **2 Likes**

Such polls are of little relevance in determining what's best, as people won't be able to agree on what is better. IMO screw drive without even quick-shift focus is not better...
Perhaps the 77 should've been named the most liked Pentax lens ever, instead.

**Rondec** · 10-01-2019, 03:16 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

Such polls are of little relevance in determining what's best, as people won't be able to agree on what is better. IMO screw drive without even quick-shift focus is not better...
Perhaps the 77 should've been named the most liked Pentax lens ever, instead.

I would have said that it indicates that it is the most used, high quality lens available to Pentaxians. It is reasonably affordable and I have always thought that short telephoto with wide aperture gives a lot of options for bokeh that wider lenses, even those with wide apertures, don't have.

normhead · 10-01-2019, 06:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

Such polls are of little relevance in determining what's best, as people won't be able to agree on what is better. IMO screw drive without even quick-shift focus is not better...
Perhaps the 77 should've been named the most liked Pentax lens ever, instead.

Ya, because all those forum members are idiots.....what do they know?

Sounds like sour grapes when your horse in the race doesn't win.

Unfortunately, yours is one vote, not enough to change the winner.

What you "value" doesn't make a lens better or worse, it's just what you value. The question was straight up, all things included what is the best Pentax lens. Your inability to acknowledge that is a bit childish don't you think?

house · 10-01-2019, 07:14 AM

There's been quite a while now since we first heard of this lens. Isn't that a bit unusual? Or am I misremembering previous tease/release cycles?

troenaas · 10-01-2019, 07:23 AM

Today, lenses needs to be "surgical" in all aspects, without any character. It should be corner to corner sharp while pixel peaking at 400% (or not)?

**monochrome** · 10-01-2019, 07:27 AM

We can’t even agree on what is Good, really, and that’s a problem. Until there is a commonly accepted set of qualities that become a standard we can’t measure, sort and rank against that standard. That means all discussion and ranking is biased by subjective opinion, not by measured, scientific results. There will never be a Best because we don’t collectively know what is Good.

To get to Best we first must find Better, which comes from the set of Good (in this case) Pentax lenses. Standard < Comparative < Superlative. Good < Better < Best.

IMO this is the root of why these ‘polls’ can only be for amusement and why, for instance, DPR reviews don’t work for us. We don’t agree on what defines Good.

I’m agreeing with Rondec. And frankly, I think my K85/1.8 is a better lens than my FA77/.8

Originally posted by Rondec

I know it was voted that, but it didn't make sense to me at the time or now. Compared with lenses like the FA *85, FA 200 f4 macro, and some of the other truly special lenses that Pentax has put out over the years, it is hard for me to call it the best Pentax lens ever.

Don't get me wrong, I really like it, particularly on full frame, but it does have its flaws.

Originally posted by Kunzite

Such polls are of little relevance in determining what's best, as people won't be able to agree on what is better. IMO screw drive without even quick-shift focus is not better...
Perhaps the 77 should've been named the most liked Pentax lens ever, instead.

Originally posted by normhead

Ya, because all those forum members are idiots.....what do they know?

Sounds like sour grapes when your horse in the race doesn't win.

Unfortunately, yours is one vote, not enough to change the winner.

What you "value" doesn't make a lens better or worse, it's just what you value. The question was straight up, all things included what is the best Pentax lens. Your inability to acknowledge that is a bit childish don't you think?

normhead · 10-01-2019, 07:39 AM

Quote:

I’m agreeing with Rondec.

I'm agreeing with the majority of the forum. Every lens has flaws, to many of us size is a flaw. To my mind the majority of the forum looked at the issues and decided what worked for them. Pointing out that the 77 has flaws implies other lenses are perfect. In a sense the question asked was "given your values, which is the best Pentax lens?" Well "I don't agree with those values" doesn't change the result. Each judged using their own personal values.

The biggest factor for me in declaring a lens the "best" is "will I use it?" Will I take it with me. If it's not on my camera or in my bag it can't be the best. The simple fact is, if you are an average forum user, the 77 was the best. A bunch of people saying it's not just means they aren't in agreement with the majority of the forum. Nothing else.

My issues with the 77 are, I have 70 and 90 macros which are excellent lenses. I just don't need a lens in that focal length. And when I go out I prefer to take a macro lens if I'm taking a prime. That rules out the 77 and 85 right there. Neither of those lenses could ever be a personal favourite. But, I understand, I'm not everyone.

I guess the difference between me and some others is, even though I didn't vote for it, I can accept the results.

The other point being... it looks lie the lenses that are keeping Pentax alive are the 31 and 77. Those are unique lenses you won't find equivalent lenses for from other brands. If an 85 1.4 was worth much to me, I tried one out before I bought my K-1. I tried a Nikon D810 with a Nikon 85 1.4. It didn't impress me. And the 77 would still be my front runner if I were miraculously start shooting portraits with my K-1. But only if I couldn't make my DFA 100 macro work.

Kunzite · 10-01-2019, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Ya, because all those forum members are idiots.....what do they know?

That's not what I said. Read monochrome's post - he describes the situation nicely.
Indeed, we cannot agree on what is "better" (or even "good"), because that's a highly personal judgement and what is better for me might not be better for you. Say, someone is shooting landscapes and would stop down the lens quite a lot; someone else is into astrophotography and want all the light he could get. There can be no product optimally serving both needs.

Then, we each have our preferences, and even when they're conflicting each others' nobody's wrong.

All this means we can only objectively agree that product X is better than product Y at some objectively measurable characteristic C. Say, the D FA* will be sharper center to corner, with faster, silent autofocus, heavier, less purple fringing... but in the end you might still prefer the FA Limited and that would be perfectly fine.

09-30-2019, 10:02 PM	#396
redpit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Greece Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,857	Originally posted by Mikesul But we can hope that the DFA* 85 1.4 which we have been promised will establish a new standard. Exactly. I have the FA 50/1.4 a beautiful small lens that I use on my K-1 and mostly on K-5IIs mainly for portraits. I'm pleased with the rendering and the vintage look although I can see the CA and the softness wide open, which I consider normal for any given lens. Then I had the chance to try the DFA* 50/1.4! WOW, I can say that these are 50/1.4, K mount lenses and pretty much there end any common characteristics these lenses share! You have to try and see for yourself what we are talking about and Mikesul correctly described as "new standard". Last edited by redpit; 09-30-2019 at 11:21 PM.

10-01-2019, 07:27 AM	#403
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	We can’t even agree on what is Good, really, and that’s a problem. Until there is a commonly accepted set of qualities that become a standard we can’t measure, sort and rank against that standard. That means all discussion and ranking is biased by subjective opinion, not by measured, scientific results. There will never be a Best because we don’t collectively know what is Good. To get to Best we first must find Better, which comes from the set of Good (in this case) Pentax lenses. Standard < Comparative < Superlative. Good < Better < Best. IMO this is the root of why these ‘polls’ can only be for amusement and why, for instance, DPR reviews don’t work for us. We don’t agree on what defines Good. I’m agreeing with Rondec. And frankly, I think my K85/1.8 is a better lens than my FA77/.8 Originally posted by Rondec I know it was voted that, but it didn't make sense to me at the time or now. Compared with lenses like the FA 85, FA 200 f4 macro, and some of the other truly special lenses that Pentax has put out over the years, it is hard for me to call it the best Pentax lens ever. Don't get me wrong, I really like it, particularly on full frame, but it does have its flaws. Originally posted by Kunzite Such polls are of little relevance in determining what's best, as people won't be able to agree on what is better. IMO screw drive without even quick-shift focus is not better... Perhaps the 77 should've been named the most liked Pentax lens ever, instead. Originally posted by normhead Ya, because all those forum members are idiots.....what do they know? Sounds like sour grapes when your horse in the race doesn't win. Unfortunately, yours is one vote, not enough to change the winner. What you "value" doesn't make a lens better or worse, it's just what you value. The question was straight up, all things included what is the best Pentax lens. Your inability to acknowledge that is a bit childish don't you think? Last edited by monochrome; 10-01-2019 at 07:33 AM.*

10-01-2019, 07:39 AM	#404
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Quote: I’m agreeing with Rondec. I'm agreeing with the majority of the forum. Every lens has flaws, to many of us size is a flaw. To my mind the majority of the forum looked at the issues and decided what worked for them. Pointing out that the 77 has flaws implies other lenses are perfect. In a sense the question asked was "given your values, which is the best Pentax lens?" Well "I don't agree with those values" doesn't change the result. Each judged using their own personal values. The biggest factor for me in declaring a lens the "best" is "will I use it?" Will I take it with me. If it's not on my camera or in my bag it can't be the best. The simple fact is, if you are an average forum user, the 77 was the best. A bunch of people saying it's not just means they aren't in agreement with the majority of the forum. Nothing else. My issues with the 77 are, I have 70 and 90 macros which are excellent lenses. I just don't need a lens in that focal length. And when I go out I prefer to take a macro lens if I'm taking a prime. That rules out the 77 and 85 right there. Neither of those lenses could ever be a personal favourite. But, I understand, I'm not everyone. I guess the difference between me and some others is, even though I didn't vote for it, I can accept the results. The other point being... it looks lie the lenses that are keeping Pentax alive are the 31 and 77. Those are unique lenses you won't find equivalent lenses for from other brands. If an 85 1.4 was worth much to me, I tried one out before I bought my K-1. I tried a Nikon D810 with a Nikon 85 1.4. It didn't impress me. And the 77 would still be my front runner if I were miraculously start shooting portraits with my K-1. But only if I couldn't make my DFA 100 macro work. Last edited by normhead; 10-01-2019 at 07:56 AM.

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09-30-2019, 01:54 PM	#391
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Originally posted by Class A I was toying with the idea of acquiring an FA* 85 If you like the way the FA31 (or the DA55) do render on FF, the FA85 is really in the same vein. Same style, same kind of rendering. It's very nice, but a bit heavy. Balance well on the K1. I would'nt spend like 1k$ on it though.

09-30-2019, 01:55 PM	#392
Serkevan Site Supporter Join Date: May 2019 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,976	Originally posted by repaap Small objects are easy to have shallow dof. Put people in the shot, halfbody of bust portrait. Hec even fullbody 'enviromental' portrait. Now let's talk about fast lenses after that and need of them for those kind of shots. You need long distance already at 105, let alone 85. Tight head portrait could be more easy. Bust portraits on 135mm equivalent (so 85ish on crop) are doable. At a distance of let's say, 2-3 metres to the subject, everything at 5+ metres from you is going to be nicely blurred... Sure, maybe not as much, but still longer is more important than faster as long as you have the room to pull back. I unfortunately cannot show any portraits because they are all friends and family and I will not upload those shots.

09-30-2019, 02:59 PM - 8 Likes	#393
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	Originally posted by Class A I'm curious as to why you prefer the 77, as the FA* 85 has a legendary reputation. I did specify "most of the time" - because it's relatively tiny, so I'm more likely to pack it. It is also less intimidating for less experienced models. Crop: Full frame: I love breaking out the FA*85 for planned portraits sessions though. It really is wonderful.

09-30-2019, 06:49 PM	#394
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Not to mention the 77 was voted by forum members the best Pentax lens ever. It end up being between the 31 and 77 in the final. Pentax Lens Tournament \| PentaxForums.com

09-30-2019, 06:58 PM	#395
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	But we can hope that the DFA* 85 1.4 which we have been promised will establish a new standard.

10-01-2019, 02:40 AM	#397
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by normhead Not to mention the 77 was voted by forum members the best Pentax lens ever. It end up being between the 31 and 77 in the final. Pentax Lens Tournament \| PentaxForums.com I know it was voted that, but it didn't make sense to me at the time or now. Compared with lenses like the FA *85, FA 200 f4 macro, and some of the other truly special lenses that Pentax has put out over the years, it is hard for me to call it the best Pentax lens ever. Don't get me wrong, I really like it, particularly on full frame, but it does have its flaws.

10-01-2019, 03:13 AM - 2 Likes	#398
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Such polls are of little relevance in determining what's best, as people won't be able to agree on what is better. IMO screw drive without even quick-shift focus is not better... Perhaps the 77 should've been named the most liked Pentax lens ever, instead.

10-01-2019, 03:16 AM - 1 Like	#399
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Kunzite Such polls are of little relevance in determining what's best, as people won't be able to agree on what is better. IMO screw drive without even quick-shift focus is not better... Perhaps the 77 should've been named the most liked Pentax lens ever, instead. I would have said that it indicates that it is the most used, high quality lens available to Pentaxians. It is reasonably affordable and I have always thought that short telephoto with wide aperture gives a lot of options for bokeh that wider lenses, even those with wide apertures, don't have.

10-01-2019, 06:58 AM - 1 Like	#400
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Kunzite Such polls are of little relevance in determining what's best, as people won't be able to agree on what is better. IMO screw drive without even quick-shift focus is not better... Perhaps the 77 should've been named the most liked Pentax lens ever, instead. Ya, because all those forum members are idiots.....what do they know? Sounds like sour grapes when your horse in the race doesn't win. Unfortunately, yours is one vote, not enough to change the winner. What you "value" doesn't make a lens better or worse, it's just what you value. The question was straight up, all things included what is the best Pentax lens. Your inability to acknowledge that is a bit childish don't you think?

10-01-2019, 07:14 AM	#401
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	There's been quite a while now since we first heard of this lens. Isn't that a bit unusual? Or am I misremembering previous tease/release cycles?

10-01-2019, 07:23 AM	#402
troenaas Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 668	Today, lenses needs to be "surgical" in all aspects, without any character. It should be corner to corner sharp while pixel peaking at 400% (or not)?

10-01-2019, 07:48 AM	#405
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by normhead Ya, because all those forum members are idiots.....what do they know? That's not what I said. Read monochrome's post - he describes the situation nicely. Indeed, we cannot agree on what is "better" (or even "good"), because that's a highly personal judgement and what is better for me might not be better for you. Say, someone is shooting landscapes and would stop down the lens quite a lot; someone else is into astrophotography and want all the light he could get. There can be no product optimally serving both needs. Then, we each have our preferences, and even when they're conflicting each others' nobody's wrong. All this means we can only objectively agree that product X is better than product Y at some objectively measurable characteristic C. Say, the D FA* will be sharper center to corner, with faster, silent autofocus, heavier, less purple fringing... but in the end you might still prefer the FA Limited and that would be perfectly fine.