CP+ 2019 - New lens roadmap - DA Standard Zoom added - Fish-Eye Zoom removed

Jonathan Mac · 03-03-2019, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

The DA Standard Zoom Lens is (1) labelled DA, not DA★ and (2) represented by a red line, not an orange one. It's therefore supposed to be a DA, not a DA★, even though such things can change between now and the actual announcement.

Replacing the DA* 16-50mm makes a lot of sense given the bad reputation it's got. Not labelling the new lens as a DA* makes a lot of sense to clear existing stock before the new one comes out.

I don't think Pentax needs another variable-aperture lens in that range, though it could conceivably be a replacement for the 17-70mm f/4.

RonHendriks1966 · 03-03-2019, 03:25 AM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

How good are the Canon and Nikon TCs (relative to cropping)? This is an actual question, not rhetorical.

I think the loss in image quality is comparable. As long as you start with enough megapixels you end up with a nice and usable image.

**gaweidert** · 03-03-2019, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by Tony Growden

So no Teleconverter for Full Frame in list

Big downer for me too. I'll leave it at that.

**monochrome** · 03-03-2019, 09:38 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by JPT

Finally, one question from the audience was whether the FA Limited lenses would get updated coatings like the FA 35/2. They said that they had certainly considered this, but they are very concerned about maintaining the character of those lenses. I guess this means they tried it with HD coating and didn’t like the results.

That, to me, is the most important information in your gracious post. It tells me they understand the FA Limiteds as constituted remain the signature Pentax lenses by reputation. Messing with them is highly risky. IMO they shouldn't be touched - keep selling them as they are until people stop buying them, then gracefully retire them.

There would of course be nothing iconoclastic about designing new D FA Limited lenses with modern features (WR, DC motors, etc.) and some sort of pixie dust, manufactured to the FA Limited standard (and charging a premium price for them).

Kunzite · 03-03-2019, 09:50 AM

They do have a DA Limited zoom - so I hope for a new series. As for the premium price, likely would be just below the D FA*s (with a somewhat slower aperture, of course)

Docrwm · 03-03-2019, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

That, to me, is the most important information in your gracious post. It tells me they understand the FA Limiteds as constituted remain the signature Pentax lenses by reputation. Messing with them is highly risky. IMO they shouldn't be touched - keep selling them as they are until people stop buying them, then gracefully retire them.

There would of course be nothing iconoclastic about designing new D FA Limited lenses with modern features (WR, DC motors, etc.) and some sort of pixie dust, manufactured to the FA Limited standard (and charging a premium price for them).

Funny, they redid the DA limiteds with the the HD coatings and most here seem thrilled. I do wonder what it was about the new coating on the FAs that was unpalatable to them?

**monochrome** · 03-03-2019, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Funny, they redid the DA limiteds with the the HD coatings and most here seem thrilled. I do wonder what it was about the new coating on the FAs that was unpalatable to them?

HD does change the rendering. It is cooler and has less flare. I changed all my DA Limiteds for HD Limiteds in the used marketplace (I'm not that insane to buy all new, just obsessive) and I like the images better. Is it 9 rounded blades, the coating or both? I don't know. But I do think, while the DA Limiteds are fine lenses (35/2.8 Macro and 70/4 especially), they aren't icons. Maybe they just don't want to mess with icons. Or maybe they need to do new batches and as long as they're going to add HD they'd just as well add the motors and sealing and blades and price them up. But then you are back to the 'messing with icons' conflict.

**c.a.m** · 03-03-2019, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by JPT

Finally, one question from the audience was whether the FA Limited lenses would get updated coatings like the FA 35/2. They said that they had certainly considered this, but they are very concerned about maintaining the character of those lenses.

Originally posted by monochrome

Maybe they just don't want to mess with icons.

@JPT, thank you very much for your reports and observations.

Concerning the FA Limiteds, I am not surprised by Ricoh's conclusion. If they have ever reviewed Pentax Forums for comments on the 31, 43, and 77 Limiteds, and have seen the many images presented in numerous threads here, they would certainly have found overwhelmingly positive appraisals of these iconic lenses. The DA 15mm Limited might control minds, but the three FAs are the ones that generate the consistently glowing comments, especially the 77.

- Craig

RonHendriks1966 · 03-03-2019, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by c.a.m

Concerning the FA Limiteds, I am not surprised by Ricoh's conclusion. If they have ever reviewed Pentax Forums for comments on the 31, 43, and 77 Limiteds, and see the many images presented in numerous threads here, they would certainly have found overwhelmingly positive appraisals of these iconic lenses. The DA 15mm Limited might control minds, but the three FAs are the ones that generate the consistently glowing comments, especially the 77.

- Craig

I think one issue with the three FA lenses is that they are for sale for so long now that many copy's are in the world. So how many are those selling today and the coming two years. You can always find one second hand.

repaap · 03-03-2019, 11:13 AM

if HD coating would improve 31,43,77 then yes. I might get 31 as new. not necessarily 43 or 77. but these lenses has their charasteristic look and one part of that is colour. I’d say thatit is recogniceable. Other thing is if you PP h*ll out of them...

Reed · 03-03-2019, 11:16 AM

I would definitely go for renewed 31/43/77 if done in HD coatings. I had DA40/2.8 both HD and SMC and HD rendering paired with super protect coating on front element is clear winner for me.

Docrwm · 03-03-2019, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

HD does change the rendering. It is cooler and has less flare. I changed all my DA Limiteds for HD Limiteds in the used marketplace (I'm not that insane to buy all new, just obsessive) and I like the images better. Is it 9 rounded blades, the coating or both? I don't know. But I do think, while the DA Limiteds are fine lenses (35/2.8 Macro and 70/4 especially), they aren't icons. Maybe they just don't want to mess with icons. Or maybe they need to do new batches and as long as they're going to add HD they'd just as well add the motors and sealing and blades and price them up. But then you are back to the 'messing with icons' conflict.

Thanks. Given your history with both SMC and HD I appreciate your summary and perspective. I think you may be right on the icon issue, aren't most FA Ltds sold to non-Pentaxians?

robjmitchell · 03-03-2019, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by JPT

Another thing is that Tanaka mentioned Ricoh has developed a hardened version of its Aerobright nano coating that can be applied to many more surfaces of lenses. The current coating is fragile and limited to certain internal surfaces apparently. I don’t think he was supposed to mention this actually, based on the glances.

.

Aerobright 2 was put on the dfa* 70-200 and is essentially just HD over SMC. However it seems the marketing folks are enamored with HD terminology and so they are wanting to call both HD and HD/SMC the same thing. They were probably annoyed because he went off pitch. The Dfa* 50 was marketed as HD even the though the coating was described as HD nanocoat over traditional multicoat, ie aerobright 2.

Mistral75 · 03-03-2019, 02:53 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by robjmitchell

Aerobright 2 was put on the dfa* 70-200 and is essentially just HD over SMC. (...)

I'm not so sure. The following is from Ricoh Imaging:

Aero Bright Coating II / Aero Bright Coating

Aero Bright Coating is a new layer formation process based on nanotechnology. It applies a silica aerogel coating layer with a uniform porous structure over a regular multi-layer coating. By trapping low-refraction air between stable silica nanoparticles, it forms a super-low refraction, high-transparency coating. It also drastically reduces surface reflections, while minimizing flare and ghost images. With Aero Bright Coating II, by increasing the amount of air trapped in the silica aerogel layer, this process successfully form a super-low reflection coating superior to that of the original Aero Bright Coating.

HD Coating

The manufacturing process for traditional vacuum deposition coating posed problems. Uneven membrane thickness and variations in the refractive index tend to occur due to difficulties in enhancing membrane density. To solve this, HD coating is created via a specialized method to achieve a high-density membrane with nanometer precision. This method reduces reflectance across the entire visible spectrum. It also produces a very hard and durable coating.

Source: PENTAX LENS TECHNOLOGY | PENTAX STAR LENS | RICOH IMAGING

JPT · 03-03-2019, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by gaweidert

Big downer for me too. I'll leave it at that.

With regard to full frame teleconverters, I don’t remember ever seeing one on the roadmap. This discussion was with the roadmap on the projector and discussing the items one by one. Of course, it is possible items to come out that are never on the roadmap, like the recent decorating of the FA35/2.

Did you hear anything about teleconverters from anyone at Ricoh?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Good: New roadmap, new lens	OoKU	Pentax News and Rumors	407	03-10-2018 10:41 AM
Anyone notice the DA* lens dissapeared from the new lens roadmap?	LFLee	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	20	08-30-2013 11:06 PM
New Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Micro HSM, the best standard zoom lens?	David L	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	25	06-24-2013 01:53 PM
When do Pentax release that 120-400mm zoom shown in the lens roadmap?	gut1kor	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	13	04-01-2013 08:18 AM
DNG - The non standard standard	Lowell Goudge	Digital Processing, Software, and Printing	13	07-21-2009 05:02 AM

03-03-2019, 02:00 AM	#61
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,911	Originally posted by Mistral75 The DA Standard Zoom Lens is (1) labelled DA, not DA★ and (2) represented by a red line, not an orange one. It's therefore supposed to be a DA, not a DA★, even though such things can change between now and the actual announcement. Replacing the DA* 16-50mm makes a lot of sense given the bad reputation it's got. Not labelling the new lens as a DA* makes a lot of sense to clear existing stock before the new one comes out. I don't think Pentax needs another variable-aperture lens in that range, though it could conceivably be a replacement for the 17-70mm f/4.

03-03-2019, 03:25 AM	#62
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman How good are the Canon and Nikon TCs (relative to cropping)? This is an actual question, not rhetorical. I think the loss in image quality is comparable. As long as you start with enough megapixels you end up with a nice and usable image.

03-03-2019, 09:17 AM	#63
gaweidert Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,327	Originally posted by Tony Growden So no Teleconverter for Full Frame in list Big downer for me too. I'll leave it at that.

03-03-2019, 09:38 AM - 2 Likes	#64
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by JPT Finally, one question from the audience was whether the FA Limited lenses would get updated coatings like the FA 35/2. They said that they had certainly considered this, but they are very concerned about maintaining the character of those lenses. I guess this means they tried it with HD coating and didn’t like the results. That, to me, is the most important information in your gracious post. It tells me they understand the FA Limiteds as constituted remain the signature Pentax lenses by reputation. Messing with them is highly risky. IMO they shouldn't be touched - keep selling them as they are until people stop buying them, then gracefully retire them. There would of course be nothing iconoclastic about designing new D FA Limited lenses with modern features (WR, DC motors, etc.) and some sort of pixie dust, manufactured to the FA Limited standard (and charging a premium price for them).

03-03-2019, 09:50 AM	#65
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	They do have a DA Limited zoom - so I hope for a new series. As for the premium price, likely would be just below the D FA*s (with a somewhat slower aperture, of course)

03-03-2019, 10:12 AM	#66
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by monochrome That, to me, is the most important information in your gracious post. It tells me they understand the FA Limiteds as constituted remain the signature Pentax lenses by reputation. Messing with them is highly risky. IMO they shouldn't be touched - keep selling them as they are until people stop buying them, then gracefully retire them. There would of course be nothing iconoclastic about designing new D FA Limited lenses with modern features (WR, DC motors, etc.) and some sort of pixie dust, manufactured to the FA Limited standard (and charging a premium price for them). Funny, they redid the DA limiteds with the the HD coatings and most here seem thrilled. I do wonder what it was about the new coating on the FAs that was unpalatable to them?

03-03-2019, 10:33 AM	#67
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Docrwm Funny, they redid the DA limiteds with the the HD coatings and most here seem thrilled. I do wonder what it was about the new coating on the FAs that was unpalatable to them? HD does change the rendering. It is cooler and has less flare. I changed all my DA Limiteds for HD Limiteds in the used marketplace (I'm not that insane to buy all new, just obsessive) and I like the images better. Is it 9 rounded blades, the coating or both? I don't know. But I do think, while the DA Limiteds are fine lenses (35/2.8 Macro and 70/4 especially), they aren't icons. Maybe they just don't want to mess with icons. Or maybe they need to do new batches and as long as they're going to add HD they'd just as well add the motors and sealing and blades and price them up. But then you are back to the 'messing with icons' conflict.

03-03-2019, 10:59 AM	#68
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,193	Originally posted by JPT Finally, one question from the audience was whether the FA Limited lenses would get updated coatings like the FA 35/2. They said that they had certainly considered this, but they are very concerned about maintaining the character of those lenses. Originally posted by monochrome Maybe they just don't want to mess with icons. @JPT, thank you very much for your reports and observations. Concerning the FA Limiteds, I am not surprised by Ricoh's conclusion. If they have ever reviewed Pentax Forums for comments on the 31, 43, and 77 Limiteds, and have seen the many images presented in numerous threads here, they would certainly have found overwhelmingly positive appraisals of these iconic lenses. The DA 15mm Limited might control minds, but the three FAs are the ones that generate the consistently glowing comments, especially the 77. - Craig

03-03-2019, 11:04 AM	#69
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by c.a.m Concerning the FA Limiteds, I am not surprised by Ricoh's conclusion. If they have ever reviewed Pentax Forums for comments on the 31, 43, and 77 Limiteds, and see the many images presented in numerous threads here, they would certainly have found overwhelmingly positive appraisals of these iconic lenses. The DA 15mm Limited might control minds, but the three FAs are the ones that generate the consistently glowing comments, especially the 77. - Craig I think one issue with the three FA lenses is that they are for sale for so long now that many copy's are in the world. So how many are those selling today and the coming two years. You can always find one second hand.

03-03-2019, 11:13 AM	#70
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	if HD coating would improve 31,43,77 then yes. I might get 31 as new. not necessarily 43 or 77. but these lenses has their charasteristic look and one part of that is colour. I’d say thatit is recogniceable. Other thing is if you PP h*ll out of them...

03-03-2019, 11:16 AM	#71
Reed Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Warsaw Photos: Gallery Posts: 638	I would definitely go for renewed 31/43/77 if done in HD coatings. I had DA40/2.8 both HD and SMC and HD rendering paired with super protect coating on front element is clear winner for me.

03-03-2019, 11:32 AM	#72
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by monochrome HD does change the rendering. It is cooler and has less flare. I changed all my DA Limiteds for HD Limiteds in the used marketplace (I'm not that insane to buy all new, just obsessive) and I like the images better. Is it 9 rounded blades, the coating or both? I don't know. But I do think, while the DA Limiteds are fine lenses (35/2.8 Macro and 70/4 especially), they aren't icons. Maybe they just don't want to mess with icons. Or maybe they need to do new batches and as long as they're going to add HD they'd just as well add the motors and sealing and blades and price them up. But then you are back to the 'messing with icons' conflict. Thanks. Given your history with both SMC and HD I appreciate your summary and perspective. I think you may be right on the icon issue, aren't most FA Ltds sold to non-Pentaxians?

03-03-2019, 02:48 PM	#73
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by JPT Another thing is that Tanaka mentioned Ricoh has developed a hardened version of its Aerobright nano coating that can be applied to many more surfaces of lenses. The current coating is fragile and limited to certain internal surfaces apparently. I don’t think he was supposed to mention this actually, based on the glances. . Aerobright 2 was put on the dfa* 70-200 and is essentially just HD over SMC. However it seems the marketing folks are enamored with HD terminology and so they are wanting to call both HD and HD/SMC the same thing. They were probably annoyed because he went off pitch. The Dfa* 50 was marketed as HD even the though the coating was described as HD nanocoat over traditional multicoat, ie aerobright 2.

03-03-2019, 02:53 PM - 2 Likes	#74
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527 Original Poster	Originally posted by robjmitchell Aerobright 2 was put on the dfa* 70-200 and is essentially just HD over SMC. (...) I'm not so sure. The following is from Ricoh Imaging: Aero Bright Coating II / Aero Bright Coating Aero Bright Coating is a new layer formation process based on nanotechnology. It applies a silica aerogel coating layer with a uniform porous structure over a regular multi-layer coating. By trapping low-refraction air between stable silica nanoparticles, it forms a super-low refraction, high-transparency coating. It also drastically reduces surface reflections, while minimizing flare and ghost images. With Aero Bright Coating II, by increasing the amount of air trapped in the silica aerogel layer, this process successfully form a super-low reflection coating superior to that of the original Aero Bright Coating. HD Coating The manufacturing process for traditional vacuum deposition coating posed problems. Uneven membrane thickness and variations in the refractive index tend to occur due to difficulties in enhancing membrane density. To solve this, HD coating is created via a specialized method to achieve a high-density membrane with nanometer precision. This method reduces reflectance across the entire visible spectrum. It also produces a very hard and durable coating. Source: PENTAX LENS TECHNOLOGY \| PENTAX STAR LENS \| RICOH IMAGING

03-03-2019, 05:52 PM	#75
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	Originally posted by gaweidert Big downer for me too. I'll leave it at that. With regard to full frame teleconverters, I don’t remember ever seeing one on the roadmap. This discussion was with the roadmap on the projector and discussing the items one by one. Of course, it is possible items to come out that are never on the roadmap, like the recent decorating of the FA35/2. Did you hear anything about teleconverters from anyone at Ricoh?