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03-02-2019, 01:08 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
(...) You don't build star lenses just to close down the company.
I wouldn't go that far. Corporate decisions can be sudden and brutal. A short while after confirming the development of their most ambitious lens to date, a 300mm f/2.8, Samsung closed down their NX business.

Simply they never communicated on their decision, they even pretended the contrary during about a year in order to sell their and their clients' inventories more easily.

03-02-2019, 01:34 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Most of my frequently used lenses aren't FF
But how many A - D lenses do you already have from this list:

Full Frame Coverage of DA Lenses: Comprehensive Test - Gear Guides | PentaxForums.com

Unless you're really into super-wide, even the DA kit lens will work for you!
03-02-2019, 01:43 PM - 1 Like   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
The 85mm had a black plastic disk where the glass should be, but a staff member told me this is normal procedure because they donít want people spying on the optical formula.
"Let me gaze into your eyes, baby. I want to see your optical formula."
03-02-2019, 02:08 PM - 1 Like   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I wouldn't be surprised if they're selling fewer than 100,000 units a year, and not actually producing any at all - just selling from inventory.
Unless I missed the thread about shuttering the camera plant in the Phillipines, I would expect that current models are still being built on a regular basis. Also, a company that won't spend money on tooling for new lens barrels (so the D FA * 85 mockup can have glass in it) until the final launch command is issued, is unlikely to tie up capital in tens of thousands of unsold camera bodies. But I don't doubt your sales figures and undoubtedly the camera plant isn't running at anything close to 100% capacity.

The more I think about it, the more I think the key constraint is for SmartVision to show a profit every quarter. Production facilities have to be underutilized to the point where introducing new products doesn't prevent supplying demand for existing products and the current product development staff obviously haven't run out of ideas. Unfortunately, Ricoh can't profitably build cameras or lenses by hand, so money has to be spent to purchase moulds and initial inventories of optical elements, circuit boards, etc. before starting production. Unless those expenditures generate revenue in the same quarter, it has a negative impact on profitability that needs to be explained to someone in accounting at Ricoh Company. Theta still has favourite son status, but other projects need to be spaced out because spending money to take them from the design stage to the commercialization stage without the revenue stream to justify it could make this very small division unprofitable for long enough that the future of SmartVision might be impacted.

Ricoh Imaging brands haven't had a flop since the K-S1 and the product development people survived a major hiccup with the D FA * 50, so there is a demonstrated capacity to bring successful products to market. My impression is that something unrelated to technology or human resources is holding them back right now.

03-02-2019, 04:39 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
(...)

The more I think about it, the more I think the key constraint is for SmartVision to show a profit every quarter. (...)
Exactly: operating income has to be positive. Immediate levers are mainly R&D and marketing spends. Longer-term levers are the usual suspects: staff, overheads,... People at Ricoh Imaging have to be pitied: it's difficult to properly and continuously adjust your cost base when your sales undergo a two-digit yearly decline.

QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
(...) money has to be spent to purchase moulds and initial inventories of optical elements, circuit boards, etc. before starting production. Unless those expenditures generate revenue in the same quarter, it has a negative impact on profitability that needs to be explained to someone in accounting at Ricoh Company. (...)
Money has to be spent, yes, but without any immediate impact on the operating result. Moulds purchase is an investment which one depreciates over time, once sales have commenced, not an expense immediately accounted for. Inventory building has no impact on the profit and loss statement either, only on the balance sheet: less cash in hand (asset) or more financial debt (liability) and more inventory (asset). The expense is incurred in the P&L when one 'buys from the inventory' to sell the finished good.

On the other hand, such purchases obviously have an impact on the cash flow generated by the business but it doesn't seem that Ricoh are putting a specific pressure on cash flow generation. If they had, there wouldn't be any Theta today: whatever successful a new activity is, it's necessarily a cash drain.
03-02-2019, 05:30 PM   #81
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A lot of speculation and not a single fact......
03-02-2019, 05:44 PM - 1 Like   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
A lot of speculation and not a single fact......
Understandable when there's a lot of "enthusiastic enthusiasts" around. Better that than ambivalence or disinterest, eh?
03-02-2019, 06:41 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
A lot of speculation and not a single fact......
That way everybody who posts can be a Guru and know everything and offer opinions and never be wrong........until.

03-02-2019, 07:17 PM   #84
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I have a KP and I dont miss at all my K5 who was the top of the line Pentax APSC. It ‘s seem people dont like the KP because is consider like a Toyota instead of a Lexus. It’s ok to disregard it if you find it’s too small for you. But I can say it’s a great machine and with major improvement over K-5 and can be better than K-3 that my friend have for some them and I was able to use.
Yes it dont have all the fancy of K-3 like double card and top screen.
I dont remember seing a single comment of the peoples who OWN a KP that they miss major feature . It’s not their top of the line but it’s a very pratical tool that do what it’s intented to do and when you put the DA 55-300PLM, it’s probably the best combination in Pentax system. And I guarantee , it’s better than any other brand for the same price. It’s not a D500 and was never intended to do so.
I got my KP and PLM for less than $1300 CDN or less than $1000 US new that including tax.
03-02-2019, 07:26 PM - 24 Likes   #85
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OK. I'll explain what was said about the high-end APS-C on the Ricoh stage, but please consider that this is my recollection of a something I heard in Japanese (understood at least 80%) and rendered two days later in my own English. There is no sense in overanalyzing the specific words I choose.

The interview with Kimio Tanaka was with Iwasaki-san, but when he started talking about the APS-C, he called up Shigeru Wakashiro from the crowd and shoved the mic in his hand. This was completely to Wakashiro-san's surprise, but he played along and spoke for a few minutes. Wakashiro-san is responsible for developing the forthcoming high-end APS-C.

He mentioned that the K-7, K-5, K-3 progression cameras were considered high-end APS-C cameras, but when compared to other companies’ models, they were at the lower end of the segment. Now that the KP has taken the line in one direction, that leaves them to really make a top-class APS-C camera. If I understood correctly, it’s going to have a new processor, sensor with a different resolution - so no "KP tech in a K-3 body".

Having said that, the size will be the same as the K-3, and the body will be very familiar to K-3 owners. Obviously Tanaka-san knows about this camera more than he is letting on, and he told the audience that he had urged them to show a model or even just a silhouette at the show. However, they had told him that even showing a silhouette would reveal something about the camera they are not ready to reveal.

In terms of timeline, they were very unclear, but it seems like it is not coming in the next few months. Maybe right at the end of the year of early next.

My own interpretation of this is that it's part of a long-term strategy to place the KP in the middle-range position of the APS-C line-up (it was announced as such) and to pave the way for a true high-end APS-C camera. As you can imagine from the technology in current Pentax cameras, it will take a lot of improvements to do that, so it is taking a long time.
03-02-2019, 07:36 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
OK. I'll explain what was said about the high-end APS-C on the Ricoh stage, but please consider that this is my recollection of a something I heard in Japanese (understood at least 80%) and rendered two days later in my own English. There is no sense in overanalyzing the specific words I choose.

The interview with Kimio Tanaka was with Iwasaki-san, but when he started talking about the APS-C, he called up Shigeru Wakashiro from the crowd and shoved the mic in his hand. This was completely to Wakashiro-san's surprise, but he played along and spoke for a few minutes. Wakashiro-san is responsible for developing the forthcoming high-end APS-C.

He mentioned that the K-7, K-5, K-3 progression cameras were considered high-end APS-C cameras, but when compared to other companiesí models, they were at the lower end of the segment. Now that the KP has taken the line in one direction, that leaves them to really make a top-class APS-C camera. If I understood correctly, itís going to have a new processor, sensor with a different resolution - so no "KP tech in a K-3 body".

Having said that, the size will be the same as the K-3, and the body will be very familiar to K-3 owners. Obviously Tanaka-san knows about this camera more than he is letting on, and he told the audience that he had urged them to show a model or even just a silhouette at the show. However, they had told him that even showing a silhouette would reveal something about the camera they are not ready to reveal.

In terms of timeline, they were very unclear, but it seems like it is not coming in the next few months. Maybe right at the end of the year of early next.

My own interpretation of this is that it's part of a long-term strategy to place the KP in the middle-range position of the APS-C line-up (it was announced as such) and to pave the way for a true high-end APS-C camera. As you can imagine from the technology in current Pentax cameras, it will take a lot of improvements to do that, so it is taking a long time.
Great post, thanks for clarifying things a bit more! Now begins the speculation about what showing the silhouette will reveal. Its great to know that the project seems to be well underway.

A great time to introduce the camera would be on the anniversary date of Asahi Optical.
03-02-2019, 07:43 PM - 4 Likes   #87
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I’ve had my KP for neary two years. I’ve always thought and said KP is a much better camera than people credit it. Frankly it is the equal of my K-1 as a photograph maker in many ways, better indoors due to the Accelerator Chip (higher ISO without noise) and sublime with the HD DA Limiteds. It is much better than K-1 for WiFi image transfer and handles easily and comfortably. Like you, I don’t miss the Flagship features, but due to the size some of the button placements differ from the K-1, which for me has perfect ergonomics. However, I’ve used both enough now that I’ve developed muscle memory with both and I can switch back and forth without looking at digit positions. Only the LiveView switch requires thought, and that’s only right after I start. I don’t think I’ll want to buy another new camera and ‘learn’ it very soon. I imagine I’m set for at least a couple years.

For the first time today I had to change batteries. I was shooting my grandchildren in 3-shot bursts and I actually depleted the first one. No biggie - I have a charged spare in my bag. Ten seconds. The shutter is just a couple FPS slower than my son’s 7D but I really don’t think I miss anything. He shoots college Lacrosse so he needs the FPS. I shoots birds and grandchildren, so it is fine for what’s I do.

People should step up to a used KP to tide themselves over.
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Understandable when there's a lot of "enthusiastic enthusiasts" around. Better that than ambivalence or disinterest, eh?
QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
I have a KP and I dont miss at all my K5 who was the top of the line Pentax APSC. It ‘s seem people dont like the KP because is consider like a Toyota instead of a Lexus. It’s ok to disregard it if you find it’s too small for you. But I can say it’s a great machine and with major improvement over K-5 and can be better than K-3 that my friend have for some them and I was able to use.
Yes it dont have all the fancy of K-3 like double card and top screen.
I dont remember seing a single comment of the peoples who OWN a KP that they miss major feature . It’s not their top of the line but it’s a very pratical tool that do what it’s intented to do and when you put the DA 55-300PLM, it’s probably the best combination in Pentax system. And I guarantee , it’s better than any other brand for the same price. It’s not a D500 and was never intended to do so.
I got my KP and PLM for less than $1300 CDN or less than $1000 US new that including tax.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-02-2019 at 07:52 PM.
03-02-2019, 07:46 PM - 3 Likes   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
OK. I'll explain what was said about the high-end APS-C on the Ricoh stage, but please consider that this is my recollection of a something I heard in Japanese (understood at least 80%) and rendered two days later in my own English. There is no sense in overanalyzing the specific words I choose.

The interview with Kimio Tanaka was with Iwasaki-san, but when he started talking about the APS-C, he called up Shigeru Wakashiro from the crowd and shoved the mic in his hand. This was completely to Wakashiro-san's surprise, but he played along and spoke for a few minutes. Wakashiro-san is responsible for developing the forthcoming high-end APS-C.

He mentioned that the K-7, K-5, K-3 progression cameras were considered high-end APS-C cameras, but when compared to other companies’ models, they were at the lower end of the segment. Now that the KP has taken the line in one direction, that leaves them to really make a top-class APS-C camera. If I understood correctly, it’s going to have a new processor, sensor with a different resolution - so no "KP tech in a K-3 body".

Having said that, the size will be the same as the K-3, and the body will be very familiar to K-3 owners. Obviously Tanaka-san knows about this camera more than he is letting on, and he told the audience that he had urged them to show a model or even just a silhouette at the show. However, they had told him that even showing a silhouette would reveal something about the camera they are not ready to reveal.

In terms of timeline, they were very unclear, but it seems like it is not coming in the next few months. Maybe right at the end of the year of early next.

My own interpretation of this is that it's part of a long-term strategy to place the KP in the middle-range position of the APS-C line-up (it was announced as such) and to pave the way for a true high-end APS-C camera. As you can imagine from the technology in current Pentax cameras, it will take a lot of improvements to do that, so it is taking a long time.
All aboard the hype train!! Consider me hyped. I'm shocked they've admitted the K-3 style body was at the lower end. But, much more exciting, is that they see not only the ground ahead of them but the desire to walk it. Best Pentax news in years imo.

I still am not expecting D500 level.. but it looks like it isn't going to be a clunky KP II at least!!! So happy. Thank you for your time and expertise on translating, JPT.
03-02-2019, 07:49 PM - 2 Likes   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Great post, thanks for clarifying things a bit more! Now begins the speculation about what showing the silhouette will reveal. Its great to know that the project seems to be well underway.

A great time to introduce the camera would be on the anniversary date of Asahi Optical.
I have a wry grin on my face right now. I actually think this is Pentax’s marketing strategy - keep them on the edges of their seats*

The 100th Anniversary should be the Release Date.


* For heaven’s sake. Now we’ll speculate about the silhouette for a month
03-02-2019, 07:57 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I have a wry grin on my face right now. I actually think this is Pentaxís marketing strategy - keep them on the edges of their seats*

The 100th Anniversary should be the Release Date.


* For heavenís sake. Now weíll speculate about the silhouette for a month
A very clever marketing strategy indeed!! Speculate for a month, it will probably run on for several months or until we actually get a glimpse of the camera.

I'm very glad now that I have not jumped the gun and bought a KP as good as it is.
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