My Report from CP+ 2019

Mountain Vision · 03-03-2019, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Doundounba

Sure, it overlaps with the low-end of the full-frame range, but I'm not interested in a large, heavy, slow, bottom of the range full-frame.

I like my bottom of the range 35mm (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?) but like you, I'd love a top of the line APS-C and I'm willing to pay for it.

In my opinion, Ricoh actually hurt its sales with the release of the 11-18 because I'm sure people like me are waiting to spend that $1300 on the new K-3III and until then I've got the K-1 and K-5IIs and DA 12-24. I'll definitely be interested in that 11-18 as well, but I want the K-3III and I'm not blowing that budget before it arrives.

**Ex Finn.** · 03-03-2019, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Mountain Vision

In my opinion, Ricoh actually hurt its sales with the release of the 11-18

I fell for it (had been waiting for the focal length/ f:range and like it a lot) so the release of the 11-18 made me spend my dollars on this lens.

hermanthegerman · 03-03-2019, 05:51 PM

Thank you for this really great CP+ 2019 report! Apparently, the KP customization is a local thing. However, I find the idea interesting.

Mountain Vision · 03-04-2019, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by Ex Finn.

I fell for it (had been waiting for the focal length/ f:range and like it a lot) so the release of the 11-18 made me spend my dollars on this lens.

I wanted this lens for a long time... And had it been released 6-12 months ago I'd have bought it and the upcoming K-3III. Unfortunately, seeing nothing interesting on the radar and looking at my lenses (I had quite a bit of FA glass) , I decided to pick up a used K-1 and see what Pentax has done since the K-5IIs. I like the K-1, it's a great camera and I do enjoy using it, but I'd probably be more excited about the K-3III and the 11-18mm 2.8.

fsge · 03-04-2019, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by Mountain Vision

I like my bottom of the range 35mm (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?) but like you, I'd love a top of the line APS-C and I'm willing to pay for it.

In my opinion, Ricoh actually hurt its sales with the release of the 11-18 because I'm sure people like me are waiting to spend that $1300 on the new K-3III and until then I've got the K-1 and K-5IIs and DA 12-24. I'll definitely be interested in that 11-18 as well, but I want the K-3III and I'm not blowing that budget before it arrives.

I dont know exactly the gross margin on a lens vs on a body but I guess Pentax prefers you buy a lens short term because it is cash in the P&L now rather than buying a body in 12 month from now ; especially if there is this constraint of operations being profitable every single quarter

Chris Mak · 03-04-2019, 05:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by JPT

OK. I'll explain what was said about the high-end APS-C on the Ricoh stage, but please consider that this is my recollection of a something I heard in Japanese (understood at least 80%) and rendered two days later in my own English. There is no sense in overanalyzing the specific words I choose.

The interview with Kimio Tanaka was with Iwasaki-san, but when he started talking about the APS-C, he called up Shigeru Wakashiro from the crowd and shoved the mic in his hand. This was completely to Wakashiro-san's surprise, but he played along and spoke for a few minutes. Wakashiro-san is responsible for developing the forthcoming high-end APS-C.

He mentioned that the K-7, K-5, K-3 progression cameras were considered high-end APS-C cameras, but when compared to other companies’ models, they were at the lower end of the segment. Now that the KP has taken the line in one direction, that leaves them to really make a top-class APS-C camera. If I understood correctly, it’s going to have a new processor, sensor with a different resolution - so no "KP tech in a K-3 body".

Having said that, the size will be the same as the K-3, and the body will be very familiar to K-3 owners. Obviously Tanaka-san knows about this camera more than he is letting on, and he told the audience that he had urged them to show a model or even just a silhouette at the show. However, they had told him that even showing a silhouette would reveal something about the camera they are not ready to reveal.

In terms of timeline, they were very unclear, but it seems like it is not coming in the next few months. Maybe right at the end of the year of early next.

My own interpretation of this is that it's part of a long-term strategy to place the KP in the middle-range position of the APS-C line-up (it was announced as such) and to pave the way for a true high-end APS-C camera. As you can imagine from the technology in current Pentax cameras, it will take a lot of improvements to do that, so it is taking a long time.

Nice to read something coming directly from Ricoh employees!

It should be assumed that the sensor will be the same as in the Fuli XT3, the top end Fuji APS-c camera, the Sony 26mp BSI IMX571, since Pentax always uses Sony sensors.

Chris

**sbh** · 03-04-2019, 07:17 AM

Side note

Originally posted by Mountain Vision

... (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?) ...

The full frame of the standard image size which was 36mm on film for most cameras (a.k.a "small format" vs. "medium format" and "large format" film).

Later the industry sold an even smaller film called "Advanced Photo System" APS for easier use and smaller cameras. It doesn't cover the full 36mm frame, hence it is not the standard "full frame".

reh321 · 03-04-2019, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Mountain Vision

I like my bottom of the range 35mm (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?) but like you, I'd love a top of the line APS-C and I'm willing to pay for it.

In my opinion, Ricoh actually hurt its sales with the release of the 11-18 because I'm sure people like me are waiting to spend that $1300 on the new K-3III and until then I've got the K-1 and K-5IIs and DA 12-24. I'll definitely be interested in that 11-18 as well, but I want the K-3III and I'm not blowing that budget before it arrives.

Ricoh seems to be saying you'll have around a year to save more for a "mysterious new camera" fund before any are actually on merchant's shelves.

Mistral75 · 03-04-2019, 07:38 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by reh321

Ricoh seems to be saying you'll have around a year to save more for a "mysterious new camera" fund before any are actually on merchant's shelves.

How considerate of them!

normhead · 03-04-2019, 07:49 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mistral75

How considerate of them!

They always have our interests at heart.

reh321 · 03-04-2019, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Mountain Vision

I like my bottom of the range 35mm (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?)

A "FF" frame has always been 24mm x 36mm - nothing "35mm" about it.
"FF", "35mm", "APS" are all names; they may have come from somewhere, but these days they are just accepted names and everyone knows what they refer to.

normhead · 03-04-2019, 08:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

A "FF" frame has always been 24mm x 36mm - nothing "35mm" about it.
"FF", "35mm", "APS" are all names; they may have come from somewhere, but these days they are just accepted names and everyone knows what they refer to.

That doesn't mean you have to like them.

35mm and half frame works fine for me.

davidsladek · 03-04-2019, 08:53 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by reh321

A "FF" frame has always been 24mm x 36mm - nothing "35mm" about it.
"FF", "35mm", "APS" are all names; they may have come from somewhere, but these days they are just accepted names and everyone knows what they refer to.

Well, FF film was, in fact, 35mm wide, so there is everything 35mm about it

It was also officially called 135 format. Of course, the FF sensors width (or rather height) has nothing to do with it anymore, but I would not reject that number so quickly

**Larrymc** · 03-04-2019, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by reh321

Ricoh seems to be saying you'll have around a year to save more for a "mysterious new camera" fund before any are actually on merchant's shelves.

Dang, RE, I must have missed that inference regarding the time frame. I'd better go back and read things more throughly.

edri · 03-04-2019, 09:18 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

I’ve had my KP for neary two years. I’ve always thought and said KP is a much better camera than people credit it........

Totally agree.totally agree. It's hard to understand the repeated dissatisfaction with the KP of people who do not use it.

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03-03-2019, 04:34 PM	#166
Mountain Vision Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: America's First Wilderness Posts: 529	Originally posted by Doundounba Sure, it overlaps with the low-end of the full-frame range, but I'm not interested in a large, heavy, slow, bottom of the range full-frame. I like my bottom of the range 35mm (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?) but like you, I'd love a top of the line APS-C and I'm willing to pay for it. In my opinion, Ricoh actually hurt its sales with the release of the 11-18 because I'm sure people like me are waiting to spend that $1300 on the new K-3III and until then I've got the K-1 and K-5IIs and DA 12-24. I'll definitely be interested in that 11-18 as well, but I want the K-3III and I'm not blowing that budget before it arrives.

03-03-2019, 05:43 PM	#167
Ex Finn. Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Maryland. Espoo. Kouvola. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,975	Originally posted by Mountain Vision In my opinion, Ricoh actually hurt its sales with the release of the 11-18 I fell for it (had been waiting for the focal length/ f:range and like it a lot) so the release of the 11-18 made me spend my dollars on this lens.

03-03-2019, 05:51 PM	#168
hermanthegerman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 28	Thank you for this really great CP+ 2019 report! Apparently, the KP customization is a local thing. However, I find the idea interesting.

03-04-2019, 12:18 AM	#169
Mountain Vision Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: America's First Wilderness Posts: 529	Originally posted by Ex Finn. I fell for it (had been waiting for the focal length/ f:range and like it a lot) so the release of the 11-18 made me spend my dollars on this lens. I wanted this lens for a long time... And had it been released 6-12 months ago I'd have bought it and the upcoming K-3III. Unfortunately, seeing nothing interesting on the radar and looking at my lenses (I had quite a bit of FA glass) , I decided to pick up a used K-1 and see what Pentax has done since the K-5IIs. I like the K-1, it's a great camera and I do enjoy using it, but I'd probably be more excited about the K-3III and the 11-18mm 2.8.

03-04-2019, 03:28 AM	#170
fsge Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Genf Posts: 1,138	Originally posted by Mountain Vision I like my bottom of the range 35mm (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?) but like you, I'd love a top of the line APS-C and I'm willing to pay for it. In my opinion, Ricoh actually hurt its sales with the release of the 11-18 because I'm sure people like me are waiting to spend that $1300 on the new K-3III and until then I've got the K-1 and K-5IIs and DA 12-24. I'll definitely be interested in that 11-18 as well, but I want the K-3III and I'm not blowing that budget before it arrives. I dont know exactly the gross margin on a lens vs on a body but I guess Pentax prefers you buy a lens short term because it is cash in the P&L now rather than buying a body in 12 month from now ; especially if there is this constraint of operations being profitable every single quarter

03-04-2019, 05:00 AM - 1 Like	#171
Chris Mak Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 639	Originally posted by JPT OK. I'll explain what was said about the high-end APS-C on the Ricoh stage, but please consider that this is my recollection of a something I heard in Japanese (understood at least 80%) and rendered two days later in my own English. There is no sense in overanalyzing the specific words I choose. The interview with Kimio Tanaka was with Iwasaki-san, but when he started talking about the APS-C, he called up Shigeru Wakashiro from the crowd and shoved the mic in his hand. This was completely to Wakashiro-san's surprise, but he played along and spoke for a few minutes. Wakashiro-san is responsible for developing the forthcoming high-end APS-C. He mentioned that the K-7, K-5, K-3 progression cameras were considered high-end APS-C cameras, but when compared to other companies’ models, they were at the lower end of the segment. Now that the KP has taken the line in one direction, that leaves them to really make a top-class APS-C camera. If I understood correctly, it’s going to have a new processor, sensor with a different resolution - so no "KP tech in a K-3 body". Having said that, the size will be the same as the K-3, and the body will be very familiar to K-3 owners. Obviously Tanaka-san knows about this camera more than he is letting on, and he told the audience that he had urged them to show a model or even just a silhouette at the show. However, they had told him that even showing a silhouette would reveal something about the camera they are not ready to reveal. In terms of timeline, they were very unclear, but it seems like it is not coming in the next few months. Maybe right at the end of the year of early next. My own interpretation of this is that it's part of a long-term strategy to place the KP in the middle-range position of the APS-C line-up (it was announced as such) and to pave the way for a true high-end APS-C camera. As you can imagine from the technology in current Pentax cameras, it will take a lot of improvements to do that, so it is taking a long time. Nice to read something coming directly from Ricoh employees! It should be assumed that the sensor will be the same as in the Fuli XT3, the top end Fuji APS-c camera, the Sony 26mp BSI IMX571, since Pentax always uses Sony sensors. Chris

03-04-2019, 07:17 AM	#172
sbh Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Black Forest, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 849	Side note Originally posted by Mountain Vision ... (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?) ... The full frame of the standard image size which was 36mm on film for most cameras (a.k.a "small format" vs. "medium format" and "large format" film). Later the industry sold an even smaller film called "Advanced Photo System" APS for easier use and smaller cameras. It doesn't cover the full 36mm frame, hence it is not the standard "full frame".

03-04-2019, 07:30 AM	#173
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,175	Originally posted by Mountain Vision I like my bottom of the range 35mm (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?) but like you, I'd love a top of the line APS-C and I'm willing to pay for it. In my opinion, Ricoh actually hurt its sales with the release of the 11-18 because I'm sure people like me are waiting to spend that $1300 on the new K-3III and until then I've got the K-1 and K-5IIs and DA 12-24. I'll definitely be interested in that 11-18 as well, but I want the K-3III and I'm not blowing that budget before it arrives. Ricoh seems to be saying you'll have around a year to save more for a "mysterious new camera" fund before any are actually on merchant's shelves.

03-04-2019, 07:38 AM - 2 Likes	#174
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,526	Originally posted by reh321 Ricoh seems to be saying you'll have around a year to save more for a "mysterious new camera" fund before any are actually on merchant's shelves. How considerate of them!

03-04-2019, 07:49 AM - 1 Like	#175
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	Originally posted by Mistral75 How considerate of them! They always have our interests at heart.

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03-04-2019, 07:52 AM	#176
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,175	Originally posted by Mountain Vision I like my bottom of the range 35mm (I hate the term full frame... Full frame what?) A "FF" frame has always been 24mm x 36mm - nothing "35mm" about it. "FF", "35mm", "APS" are all names; they may have come from somewhere, but these days they are just accepted names and everyone knows what they refer to.

03-04-2019, 08:01 AM - 1 Like	#177
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	Originally posted by reh321 A "FF" frame has always been 24mm x 36mm - nothing "35mm" about it. "FF", "35mm", "APS" are all names; they may have come from somewhere, but these days they are just accepted names and everyone knows what they refer to. That doesn't mean you have to like them. 35mm and half frame works fine for me.

03-04-2019, 08:53 AM - 2 Likes	#178
davidsladek Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Surrey Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 346	Originally posted by reh321 A "FF" frame has always been 24mm x 36mm - nothing "35mm" about it. "FF", "35mm", "APS" are all names; they may have come from somewhere, but these days they are just accepted names and everyone knows what they refer to. Well, FF film was, in fact, 35mm wide, so there is everything 35mm about it It was also officially called 135 format. Of course, the FF sensors width (or rather height) has nothing to do with it anymore, but I would not reject that number so quickly

03-04-2019, 09:17 AM	#179
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by reh321 Ricoh seems to be saying you'll have around a year to save more for a "mysterious new camera" fund before any are actually on merchant's shelves. Dang, RE, I must have missed that inference regarding the time frame. I'd better go back and read things more throughly.

03-04-2019, 09:18 AM - 1 Like	#180
edri Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: walking in the air Posts: 1,315	Originally posted by monochrome I’ve had my KP for neary two years. I’ve always thought and said KP is a much better camera than people credit it........ Totally agree.totally agree. It's hard to understand the repeated dissatisfaction with the KP of people who do not use it.