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03-08-2019, 04:17 AM - 1 Like   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
Not bad at all, I don't have a K-1 and I didn't remembered that there were such updates.
My K-5 and K-3II didn't had any new features, just compatibility with new hardware, and my K-3II still didn't have the 11-18 optimizations.
Generally firmware updates are a sign that a camera brand hurried a camera out the door and they didn't have time to put everything in it. It isn't as though a camera can add 4K video after the fact if the sensor isn't capable.

03-08-2019, 05:26 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Generally firmware updates are a sign that a camera brand hurried a camera out the door and they didn't have time to put everything in it. It isn't as though a camera can add 4K video after the fact if the sensor isn't capable.
I'm an engineer and I don't think I've ever seen a software- or firmware-based product that didn't have 30 or 50 or 100 open trouble reports after 10 years of testing and living out in the wild. Depending on how you roll out updates and how hard/expensive that is you just never fix anything below high priorities that directly impact safety or primary functions. There are always things you could package into upgrades and bug fixes. With cameras that probably makes sense because updating firmware is pretty simple and straightforward and for the end user essentially free.

You can't test every use case and integrate every feature in a reasonable development cycle. You're building the product, presumably, because people want and/or need it now. You usually don't have the luxury of a large test team with limitless resources and an open-ended delivery schedule.

---------- Post added 03-08-19 at 08:20 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I donít think people would pay $1,700 for the Pentax flagship even if there was a more modest camera between it and the KP.
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Price is very important.

Currently overhere some new actions to sell stuff.

With a K-1 for 1.999 euro you get a free d-fa 100mm Macro lens.

Pentax K-1 Mark II DSLR Body Zwart kopen? | CameraNU.nl

There are offers on all models currently.
- K-1 get a free 100mm Macro lens
- KP get a free 55-300mm wr lens (not plm)
- K-70 get a free da 50mm lens

In this shop K-1 plus 100mm Macro lens for 1899 euro, shipping all EU.
Pentax K-1 II Body
I think it would be a tough sell. That's about 50% higher than the K-3ii release price, and within six months you could get it for $800. It would have to have a killer feature set. Almost no one would pay $1700 for incremental upgrades to a circa 2013 DSLR.

I might think about it, though, if it was a substantial upgrade and it came with a DA 21mm F2.8 Limited DC WR.
03-08-2019, 07:55 AM - 2 Likes   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
You usually don't have the luxury of a large test team with limitless resources and an open-ended delivery schedule.
This is an important point (and I will take the blame for going off-topic), the two things you mention always exponentially increase development costs and don't provide a better end product. The larger the test team, the more flaws that are discovered and money gets wasted fixing problems that will never surface in the wild. This fixing of problems that don't need to be fixed is a major contributor to the second thing you mention, the direct result of which is a final product that no longer fixes the end user's problems, because the end user's requirements have changed and the feature set has been determined by the "quality control" process (which has been hijacked by the testing team) instead of what the market wants.

There is no truly new technology in the camera business, only tweaks, and if the number of people who want to buy new photographic equipment is declining, new bells and whistles won't make that market grow. Every success, however small, comes at the expense of a competitor. Even if the goal is to avoid losing business, success comes at the expense of a competitor who is spending money to steal some of that business. That is the environment that Ricoh Imaging is operating in.
03-08-2019, 08:07 AM - 1 Like   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
This is an important point (and I will take the blame for going off-topic), the two things you mention always exponentially increase development costs and don't provide a better end product. The larger the test team, the more flaws that are discovered and money gets wasted fixing problems that will never surface in the wild. This fixing of problems that don't need to be fixed is a major contributor to the second thing you mention, the direct result of which is a final product that no longer fixes the end user's problems, because the end user's requirements have changed and the feature set has been determined by the "quality control" process (which has been hijacked by the testing team) instead of what the market wants.

There is no truly new technology in the camera business, only tweaks, and if the number of people who want to buy new photographic equipment is declining, new bells and whistles won't make that market grow. Every success, however small, comes at the expense of a competitor. Even if the goal is to avoid losing business, success comes at the expense of a competitor who is spending money to steal some of that business. That is the environment that Ricoh Imaging is operating in.
Even as an engineer I will sometimes remind my teams of engineers that at some point management has to shoot the engineers. Hopefully metaphorically. Otherwise you'll never be done. There is always something you could add or gold-plate or fix. And engineers love to engineer.

I'd bet that there are Pentax engineers who have development builds incorporating some cool features we'll never see because of the resources necessary to build and test and the almost non-existent ROI.

03-08-2019, 08:23 AM - 1 Like   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Currency exchange rates excepted, $1,399. KP drops $200. If you donít have the coin, donít whine.
My wife always jokes that the perfect purse has infinite space inside but weighs nothing and takes up no space as she carries it.
Pentax users seem to have similar standards - lots of features but little cost.
03-08-2019, 01:36 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
.



I'd bet that there are Pentax engineers who have development builds incorporating some cool features we'll never see because of the resources necessary to build and test and the almost non-existent ROI.
Sure. They can bubble along in the background awaiting corporate funding to become real, though.

The K-1 was like that, a project that had been worked on for a while waiting for the right financial moment.

And right now Ricoh has said it is studying mirrorless and which sensor size it might first appear in, the engineers will have some CAD proposals going to give the product development team options to think about.
03-08-2019, 02:40 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
My wife always jokes that the perfect purse has infinite space inside but weighs nothing and takes up no space as she carries it.
Pentax users seem to have similar standards - lots of features but little cost.
That purse was the model for Doctor Whoís Tardis, Iím convinced.

---------- Post added 9th Mar 2019 at 07:46 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Even as an engineer I will sometimes remind my teams of engineers that at some point management has to shoot the engineers. Hopefully metaphorically. Otherwise you'll never be done. There is always something you could add or gold-plate or fix. And engineers love to engineer.

I'd bet that there are Pentax engineers who have development builds incorporating some cool features we'll never see because of the resources necessary to build and test and the almost non-existent ROI.
In my neck of the woods, engineering had to be done within a cost budget and on time. Concept and development designs were treated the same as production designs, in that respect. Investment decisions were made in other places. Anything done outside those constraints was done on your own time. I wouldnít mind betting that Ricoh has much the same setup.
03-08-2019, 02:50 PM - 1 Like   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
and my K-3II still didn't have the 11-18 optimizations.
Yeah, unless it's already built in, that's a rough one - gotta be fixed, need the flagship APS-C body to be at its best with a flagship lens.

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