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03-04-2019, 08:51 PM - 2 Likes   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
How many units does the KP have to sell in Japan for it to be considered "selling well"? Selling well relative to what? They don't seem to be selling well enough to improve the market share. Are the selling as well as the K-x? That camera sold really well in Japan. We probably won't know unit it is out of production and we have a couple of years of data. Ricoh is the smallest player in a contracting market segment. They are obviously more invested in the Japanese market and they engage in significantly more marketing.
I don't know what volume is needed. You are the one who started the discussion of volume by saying they need more than just me. They need me, plus another with needs like mine, plus another .... Volume is just a chain like that, but it starts off by satisfying individuals one at a time - that was my original point. None of us really knows how the KP is selling - we just each makes assumptions based on what we want and what we see.

03-04-2019, 09:10 PM - 4 Likes   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snakeisthestuff Quote
This year I was again able to attend cp+ on its last day (Sunday). As I knew for me there were no exciting announcements this year I could enjoy it more casually and relaxed.

Thank you very much Snakeisthestuff!

I really like the picture of custom KP people, that's a great shot. It's good to see these guys enjoying themselves, laughing like that, being like real people. That kind of atmosphere (which I don't feel from well cut people in coorporate uniform with perfect polite smile) is going really well with the project they're working on.

---------- Post added 03-04-19 at 08:41 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
They were talking about "forthcoming high-end APS-C" camera which Wakashiro-san is responsible for.

My expectations about "FF' come from comments by @Asahiman;
If he turns out to be inaccurate in this, then I will take that into account in evaluating future comments by him, but he has been accurate recently.
Hi reh321,

in another thread I talked a bit about youtube video of one of CP+ Tanaka-Iwasaki sessions (probably the first day), and though I didn't have time to write any detailed comments at the time, and though many things were vague anyway, Iwasak-san said that APS will come before the next full frame.

Ricoh booth at CP+ - Page 29 - PentaxForums.com

From about 33:00 they talked about APS flagship (yes Iwasaki-san said 'APS flagship') but there's nothing that wasn't already reported by JPT.

Full frame talk starts at about 35:49, Iwasaki-san says it's "something in the future", Tanaka-san pressed him to say if it's next year or not and Iwasaki-san mumbled (sounded like "a bit further down" to me but I'm not 100% certain). He also said he cannot say at this point if that will be a successor of K-1 II or lower end.

Then, from 36:37, still talking about new full frame,
Iwasaki: Yes we have some work to do.
Tanaka: But before that, you have some work to do on the successor of K-3II.
Iwasaki: Yes, that one first.
Unless Iwasaki-san made an error, that's that, that was in no uncertain terms.
03-04-2019, 10:06 PM - 4 Likes   #78
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Another indication that a full frame camera is a way off is the survey I received a couple of months ago. It was quite clearly focused on determining features for a future FF model. That would imply it is not at an advanced stage of development.

On the bright side, that survey was very extensive, with some very pertinent questions.

Hereís the thread where I described this in more detail.
Ricoh Japan FF Camera Market Survey - PentaxForums.com
03-05-2019, 07:28 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by kwb Quote
[/LEFT]
[/LEFT]
Thank you very much Snakeisthestuff!

I really like the picture of custom KP people, that's a great shot. It's good to see these guys enjoying themselves, laughing like that, being like real people. That kind of atmosphere (which I don't feel from well cut people in coorporate uniform with perfect polite smile) is going really well with the project they're working on.

---------- Post added 03-04-19 at 08:41 PM ----------


Hi reh321,

in another thread I talked a bit about youtube video of one of CP+ Tanaka-Iwasaki sessions (probably the first day), and though I didn't have time to write any detailed comments at the time, and though many things were vague anyway, Iwasak-san said that APS will come before the next full frame.

Ricoh booth at CP+ - Page 29 - PentaxForums.com
CP+2019??????????????????????????GR????? - YouTube

From about 33:00 they talked about APS flagship (yes Iwasaki-san said 'APS flagship') but there's nothing that wasn't already reported by JPT.

Full frame talk starts at about 35:49, Iwasaki-san says it's "something in the future", Tanaka-san pressed him to say if it's next year or not and Iwasaki-san mumbled (sounded like "a bit further down" to me but I'm not 100% certain). He also said he cannot say at this point if that will be a successor of K-1 II or lower end.

Then, from 36:37, still talking about new full frame,
Iwasaki: Yes we have some work to do.
Tanaka: But before that, you have some work to do on the successor of K-3II.
Iwasaki: Yes, that one first.
Unless Iwasaki-san made an error, that's that, that was in no uncertain terms.
Thank you very much for this clarification. My main point in my recent discussions on this thread and others was that it was very illogical to think that another one or two full frame cameras would be introduced before an APS-C "Flagship" was brought to market.

03-05-2019, 02:26 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by kwb Quote
Then, from 36:37, still talking about new full frame,
Iwasaki: Yes we have some work to do.
Tanaka: But before that, you have some work to do on the successor of K-3II.
Iwasaki: Yes, that one first.
Unless Iwasaki-san made an error, that's that, that was in no uncertain terms.
That makes perfect sense to me. I am very happy with my K1 and in no rush for an update. On the other hand, my K3 is feeling a bit dated. I think for most of us, it's the APS-C that should come first.
03-05-2019, 02:59 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Thank you very much for this clarification. My main point in my recent discussions on this thread and others was that it was very illogical to think that another one or two full frame cameras would be introduced before an APS-C "Flagship" was brought to market.
If logic were relevant here, the K-3ii would still be readily available when its replacement was announced. As it is, there is too much opportunity for people to "set their hair on fire".
03-05-2019, 03:01 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by kwb Quote
Hi reh321,

in another thread I talked a bit about youtube video of one of CP+ Tanaka-Iwasaki sessions (probably the first day), and though I didn't have time to write any detailed comments at the time, and though many things were vague anyway, Iwasak-san said that APS will come before the next full frame.

From about 33:00 they talked about APS flagship (yes Iwasaki-san said 'APS flagship') but there's nothing that wasn't already reported by JPT.

Full frame talk starts at about 35:49, Iwasaki-san says it's "something in the future", Tanaka-san pressed him to say if it's next year or not and Iwasaki-san mumbled (sounded like "a bit further down" to me but I'm not 100% certain). He also said he cannot say at this point if that will be a successor of K-1 II or lower end.

Then, from 36:37, still talking about new full frame,
Iwasaki: Yes we have some work to do.
Tanaka: But before that, you have some work to do on the successor of K-3II.
Iwasaki: Yes, that one first.
Unless Iwasaki-san made an error, that's that, that was in no uncertain terms.
I'll have to take your word on this, since my computer doesn't have working sound right now {and I don't understand Japanese}
03-05-2019, 03:15 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If logic were relevant here, the K-3ii would still be readily available when its replacement was announced. As it is, there is too much opportunity for people to "set their hair on fire".
No actually its much better for the company's bottom line to not have left over inventory when bringing out a new model they could have possibly timed it a bit better. Hair on fire sales lose companies money! @biz-engineer explained this really well on his post My Report from CP+ 2019 - Page 15 - PentaxForums.com post #216.

Additionally having to dump excess inventory for a retailer is rarely profitable unless the manufacturer offers a discount. To the manufacturer it is never profitable to have to dump excess inventory, just ask someone in the automobile industry.


Last edited by Larrymc; 03-05-2019 at 03:27 PM.
03-05-2019, 03:17 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
How many units does the KP have to sell in Japan for it to be considered "selling well"? Selling well relative to what?
That's an interesting question. Regarding the last part, all that matters is if it's selling well relative to Ricoh's sales forecasts, such that it's a profitable product during its projected life. It doesn't have to sell well relative to any other brand. So long as Ricoh achieves its sales and profit targets from that product, management is happy

Last edited by BigMackCam; 03-05-2019 at 04:02 PM.
03-05-2019, 03:27 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
No actually its much better for the company's bottom line to not have left over inventory when bringing out a new model they could have possibly timed it a bit better. Hair on fire sales lose companies money! @biz-engineer explained this really well on his post My Report from CP+ 2019 - Page 15 - PentaxForums.com post #216.
I understand the reasoning - I have an MBA (*) also - but sometimes marketing is more important than financial considerations. I wonder how many of those who threaten actually will wander off to some other mount/brand during this time.


(*) I took just one Marketing course, which seemed to be a course for Capt. Obvious, and I minored in Finance.

Last edited by reh321; 03-05-2019 at 03:37 PM.
03-05-2019, 03:48 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I understand the reasoning - I have an MBA (*) also - but sometimes marketing is more important than financial considerations.
Marketing is a financial consideration.

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I wonder how many of those who threaten actually will wander off to some other mount/brand during this time.
(*) I took just one Marketing course, which seemed to be a course for Capt. Obvious, and I minored in Finance.
I personally know of one who will not wander off.
03-05-2019, 03:59 PM - 6 Likes   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
That's an interesting question. Regarding the last part, all that matters is if it's selling well relative to Ricoh's sales forecasts, such that it's a profitable product during its projected life. It doesn't have to sell well relative to any other brand. So long Ricoh achieve its sales and profit targets from that product, management is happy
The KP has been selling very well in Japan, and that is without aggressive price cutting. Iím fairly confident about this based on a few different indications.

- I heard from someone at retail at the time of launch that the KP had a huge number of pre-orders, exceeding even the pent-up demand for the K-1.
- Looking at the sales rankings over time, the KP has been higher than other K-mount cameras for the whole two years of its existence, and often by a big margin.
- There are some smaller stores that only stock one Pentax model. In the last two years it has been the KP. In the past it had been the lower end cameras.
- As a side effect, Iíve also noticed the DA Limited series doing better than before, especially the 20-40 zoom. I suspect one of the objectives of the camera was to provide the perfect platform for these lenses.

Since the KP sells at the same price as the K-3 used to, I donít think Ricoh will see the KP as a failure, and I would expect a ďKP2Ē at some point in future.

However, Iíve always suspected that Part 2 of the plan was a true high end APS-C camera. The CP+ interviews seem to support this. Itís only a pity itís taking so long.
03-05-2019, 04:16 PM - 3 Likes   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
How many units does the KP have to sell in Japan for it to be considered "selling well"? Selling well relative to what? They don't seem to be selling well enough to improve the market share. Are the selling as well as the K-x? That camera sold really well in Japan. We probably won't know unit it is out of production and we have a couple of years of data. Ricoh is the smallest player in a contracting market segment. They are obviously more invested in the Japanese market and they engage in significantly more marketing.
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
That's an interesting question. Regarding the last part, all that matters is if it's selling well relative to Ricoh's sales forecasts, such that it's a profitable product during its projected life. It doesn't have to sell well relative to any other brand. So long Ricoh achieve its sales and profit targets from that product, management is happy
Initial monthly production gives us a first indication of Ricoh Imaging's ambitions concerning a specific camera.
  • K-1 Mark II: 3,500 units
  • KP: 7,000
  • K70: 5,000
  • K-1: 7,000
  • GR II: 5,000
  • K-3 II: 10,000
  • K-S2: 15,000
  • K-S1: 20,000
  • Q-S1: 18,000
  • 645Z: 400
  • K-3: 10,000
  • K-50: 20,000
  • Q7: 20,000
03-05-2019, 04:28 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Initial monthly production gives us a first indication of Ricoh Imaging's ambitions concerning a specific camera.
  • K-1 Mark II: 3,500 units
  • KP: 7,000
  • K70: 5,000
  • K-1: 7,000
  • GR II: 5,000
  • K-3 II: 10,000
  • K-S2: 15,000
  • K-S1: 20,000
  • Q-S1: 18,000
  • 645Z: 400
  • K-3: 10,000
  • K-50: 20,000
  • Q7: 20,000

Are those actual first month production figures, i.e. number of each unit produced in the first month of manufacture?
03-05-2019, 04:37 PM - 1 Like   #90
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Those are the initial monthly production figures as reported by Ricoh Imaging when announcing the camera (当初月産数 = monthly production at the beginning).
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