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04-01-2019, 07:19 AM - 2 Likes   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Nope, that is not what I think.

I have learned by experience that that a battery grip adds to the weight of the system without making it easier for me to handle, especially since contour/size of the bottom is affected and it fits more poorly in my bag.
Back when I was a Canon user, I did have a battery grip, but I gave up on it before the camera died.
There is no point to arguing experience - we differ.

{we have been pass this station several times and it still has nothing to do with Tanaka-san}
It would be interesting to measure the muscle strength in various folk's arms in the forearm, biceps etc. to see if there's a correlation with how they experience the balance of a camera. I mean, interesting if you had nothing else going on in your life.

04-01-2019, 07:28 AM - 3 Likes   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It would be interesting to measure the muscle strength in various folk's arms in the forearm, biceps etc. to see if there's a correlation with how they experience the balance of a camera. I mean, interesting if you had nothing else going on in your life.
Yeah, I'm not sure how that would work. In college I was a 5'11" 145 lb nerd. In the fifty years since then, I have lost 2" and gained 50 lb - none of that in my arms
04-01-2019, 08:44 AM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yeah, I'm not sure how that would work. In college I was a 5'11" 145 lb nerd. In the fifty years since then, I have lost 2" and gained 50 lb - none of that in my arms
Funny as I got older and older my lenses got heavier and heavier, it should have been the other way around.

Last edited by normhead; 04-01-2019 at 01:59 PM.
04-01-2019, 09:28 AM   #349
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I'm like reh123 -- tall, thin nerd who finds gripless cameras far better-balanced than gripped ones across the full range of lens sizes. My arms might not be very beefy but they have the endurance to hike all day with a couple of kilos in the palm of my hand.

Oh, and the connection of this to Tanaka-san is that he revealed several mid-size zooms and lenses that are likely to balance nicely just under the mount. That's a commonly-occuring CG which a grip interferes with because it forces the left hand to be either out on the lens in-front of the center of gravity or behind it on the body. In contrast, an ungripped camera with one of Tanaka-san's lenses will cradle nicely with the palm of the hand straddling the body and lens.

But everyone is different. I'm just glad that Pentax made the vertical grip optional on their pro cameras. The built-in grips of the top-level Nikons and Canons are a big reason why I rejected them and bought Pentax, instead.

04-01-2019, 09:36 AM   #350
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Slightly pertinent to this discussion, the new Olympus E-M1X with it's built-in grip has been greeted with something less than enthusiasm amongst the m4/3 populi.

I like having a camera with a battery grip for photographing wildlife with large-ish lenses, but other than that I prefer sans grip. And I also prefer consumers have a choice.


04-01-2019, 11:36 AM   #351
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Nope, that is not what I think.

I have learned by experience that that a battery grip adds to the weight of the system without making it easier for me to handle, especially since contour/size of the bottom is affected and it fits more poorly in my bag.
Back when I was a Canon user, I did have a battery grip, but I gave up on it before the camera died.
There is no point to arguing experience - we differ.

{we have been pass this station several times and it still has nothing to do with Tanaka-san}
What is the heaviest lens you are using?

The heaviest I use regularly is the DFA *70-200 which really does feel front heavy when mounted on a K-01. On the other hand, I feel like the K-1 is decent sized enough without a grip to balance it pretty well. Regardless, I think we've established quite a while ago that ergonomics are pretty individual specific and something that feels right to one user will aggravate another.
04-01-2019, 12:16 PM   #352
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
What is the heaviest lens you are using?
The heaviest lens I use regularly is the DA 55-300 PLM - which is listed as weighing just under a pound.

I don't have a digital FF camera right now {I do still have my Super Program 35mm camera} - and at age 71 I'm not likely to get one - but if I did get one I would be looking for lenses that weigh no more than a pound, since I've never seen an advantage to me of expensive massive lenses.
04-01-2019, 12:51 PM   #353
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
What is the heaviest lens you are using?
This 33 oz AdaptAll seems to be the heaviest lens I own. It is the only telephoto lens living in my Super Program bag; yes, I can use this combination, but I won't very often, partly because I don't enjoy manual focus these days, and partly because I don't use film much any more.

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Last edited by reh321; 04-01-2019 at 12:56 PM.
04-01-2019, 12:57 PM - 1 Like   #354
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Just acouple of hours ago I returned home from a nature trip. I had more than 10 poundskilos of camera tools with me (for example Pentax K-1, DA 300mm f4, DFA 15-30f2.8 etc.) and I have to admit that today's digital cameras and lenses weighmore than the Pentax Lx and M-series lenses in 1980s. Photography was less heavy 30years ago than today. Aging is inevitable, but for healthy aging, carryingheavy camera equipment once a while stop the loss of muscle strength…
04-01-2019, 01:47 PM   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yeah, I'm not sure how that would work. In college I was a 5'11" 145 lb nerd. In the fifty years since then, I have lost 2" and gained 50 lb - none of that in my arms
Still a "nerd" though.......Huh?
04-01-2019, 01:48 PM - 1 Like   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
[...]
But everyone is different. I'm just glad that Pentax made the vertical grip optional on their pro cameras. The built-in grips of the top-level Nikons and Canons are a big reason why I rejected them and bought Pentax, instead.
Amen to that! It's so nice to have the option of going compact when that's appropriate, but also to have a more 'massive' body when that's 'needed'. I have the best 'feel' for the photography when I have the camera sans grip and a small, preferably manual, lens attached, but on the occasions I shoot my kids' football or handball games with a bigger zoom, I prefer the extra grip that the battery grip brings. I have a Sigma 70-200 that balances nicely with the tripod foot resting in the palm of my hand, but still the camera/lens combo feels more comfortable with the grip. (Besides, with the extra battery there's a lesser chance that the camera dies halfway through the tournament )
04-01-2019, 02:12 PM - 1 Like   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
My concern is that we may be heading to a rather clinical. sterile era, when photos are needle sharp corner-to-corner, but don't have any 'character'.
Agree with you entirely on this one!

---------- Post added 04-01-19 at 02:13 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
And I also prefer consumers have a choice.
Yeah I never understood why a manufacturer would take away and possible option of traveling light by having a permanent large grip.
04-02-2019, 06:16 AM   #358
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i'll never understand grips... (some) camera companies work so hard to make as tight and small a package as possible, and then you go and screw a brick to it . i have to lay flat on the ground sometimes to get the camera low enough... a grip makes that impossible.
04-02-2019, 06:20 AM - 1 Like   #359
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
i'll never understand grips... (some) camera companies work so hard to make as tight and small a package as possible, and then you go and screw a brick to it . i have to lay flat on the ground sometimes to get the camera low enough... a grip makes that impossible.
One of the advantages of an SLR was always its flexibility - you make it what you want by what you add.

We do seem to have lost Tanaka-san and lenses, though.
04-02-2019, 06:25 AM   #360
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I think grips became possible because of motorized film advances. Some people realized they liked the attachment even though they didn't want to waste film shooting off 5 frames a second. Back in the early days of digital, someone said "what can we make for the guys who like the film advance motor under the camera?" "How about extra batteries?" I've psychically determined this is what happened.
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