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04-28-2019, 11:10 AM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's why it works well as work around for shutter vibrations, i.e slow shutter speeds (1/10th -> 1/160th).
The problem with electronic shutters in their present form is the way they handle motion. If global electronic shutters become mainstream they will solve that problem, but until then, leaf shutters are, in fact, the better shutter in the 1/10 to 1/160th speed range.
I think the real problem is that in the race to the bottom, consumers decided that complaining about shutter shock was preferable to paying extra for a solution. I expect that the users that were attracted to photography in droves by digital also had no history with photography, and were never aware of the advantages of a leaf shutter.

04-29-2019, 05:45 AM   #317
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Not to abandon my love of the leaf shutter ... but I was perplexed that the lowly Nikon D70 used a hybrid shutter with mechanical first curtain and electronic final curtain shutter. It had an official flash sync speed of 1/500 and with manual flashes could sync up to 1/8000.

Not sure why this is no longer possible? Presumably the move from CCD to CMOS prevented using a hybrid shutter like this?
04-29-2019, 05:52 AM - 2 Likes   #318
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QuoteQuote:
I think the real problem is that in the race to the bottom, consumers decided that complaining about shutter shock was preferable to paying extra for a solution
And execs started thinking "if I can save $10 a shutter on 100,000 units I can add $500,000 to my bonus."
04-29-2019, 06:39 AM - 2 Likes   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote
Not to abandon my love of the leaf shutter ... but I was perplexed that the lowly Nikon D70 used a hybrid shutter with mechanical first curtain and electronic final curtain shutter. It had an official flash sync speed of 1/500 and with manual flashes could sync up to 1/8000.

Not sure why this is no longer possible? Presumably the move from CCD to CMOS prevented using a hybrid shutter like this?
Yes, there was a CCD architecture called "interline transfer CCD" in which each pixel consisted of a separate photodiode that connected to a CCD bucket brigade column via a gate. The CCD part of the chip was covered by an opaque material. Thus, the sensor could capture the image in the photodiode array and then instantly dump it into the CCD where it could be slowly transferred off the chip for read-out. The design offered a true global shutter for video applications but image quality was lower than that of a sensor optimized for use with a mechanical shutter.

In theory, one could create an interline-transfer architecture in CMOS by creating a separate photodiode & charge storage/read-out array but it would add probably 1 or 2 EV to the base ISO, take away 1 or 2 EV in dynamic range, increase the noise in the image, and add cost.

The fundamental fact that a silicon sensor is ALWAYS light sensitive means that the best way to get the cleanest possible image is to put a shutter in front of it.

04-29-2019, 10:19 AM   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Yes, there was a CCD architecture called "interline transfer CCD" in which each pixel consisted of a separate photodiode that connected to a CCD bucket brigade column via a gate. The CCD part of the chip was covered by an opaque material. Thus, the sensor could capture the image in the photodiode array and then instantly dump it into the CCD where it could be slowly transferred off the chip for read-out. The design offered a true global shutter for video applications but image quality was lower than that of a sensor optimized for use with a mechanical shutter.

In theory, one could create an interline-transfer architecture in CMOS by creating a separate photodiode & charge storage/read-out array but it would add probably 1 or 2 EV to the base ISO, take away 1 or 2 EV in dynamic range, increase the noise in the image, and add cost.

The fundamental fact that a silicon sensor is ALWAYS light sensitive means that the best way to get the cleanest possible image is to put a shutter in front of it.
Great info, thanks.

Also confirms -- Pentax should make a portrait lens with a leaf shutter!
04-29-2019, 10:33 AM - 3 Likes   #321
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote
Great info, thanks.

Also confirms -- Pentax should make a portrait lens with a leaf shutter!
What’s that? The reason for the delay in the DFA*85f1.4 was to add a leaf shutter?


-Eric
04-30-2019, 05:11 AM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
What’s that? The reason for the delay in the DFA*85f1.4 was to add a leaf shutter?


-Eric
Portraits are the one area where a little bit of softness might be appreciated.

04-30-2019, 05:49 AM - 4 Likes   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Portraits are the one area where a little bit of softness might be appreciated.
That settles it! I'm predicting the introduction of an HD Pentax-D FA* 85mm F2.8 Soft LS with both defocus control and leaf shutter!
04-30-2019, 05:45 PM - 3 Likes   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote
That settles it! I'm predicting the introduction of an HD Pentax-D FA* 85mm F2.8 Soft LS with both defocus control and leaf shutter!

And Tilt Shift with rear filter slot!
04-30-2019, 06:09 PM - 2 Likes   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote
That settles it! I'm predicting the introduction of an HD Pentax-D FA* 85mm F2.8 Soft LS with both defocus control and leaf shutter!
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
And Tilt Shift with rear filter slot!
Sounds great!

I'm holding out for interchangeable waterhouse stops and a flippable front element for that reversed-element look.

Who says that only hipster Kickstarter customers can have all the optical fun!
05-01-2019, 04:53 AM - 1 Like   #326
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmamigo Quote
That settles it! I'm predicting the introduction of an HD Pentax-D FA* 85mm F2.8 Soft LS with both defocus control and leaf shutter!
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
And Tilt Shift with rear filter slot!
QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Sounds great!

I'm holding out for interchangeable waterhouse stops and a flippable front element for that reversed-element look.

Who says that only hipster Kickstarter customers can have all the optical fun!
Leaf shutter? No. Built-in 20-stop ND filter so you can use the lens cap as the shutter.
05-01-2019, 06:02 AM   #327
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Leaf shutter? No. Built-in 20-stop ND filter so you can use the lens cap as the shutter.
Might as well just use a pinhole lens.
05-01-2019, 06:32 AM - 2 Likes   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
Might as well just use a pinhole lens.
Maybe that’s the real reason for the delay... Pentax hasn’t figured out how to make an 85mm f1.4 pinhole

-Eric
05-01-2019, 08:28 AM   #329
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
Maybe that’s the real reason for the delay... Pentax hasn’t figured out how to make an 85mm f1.4 pinhole



-Eric
Well, with everyone's input it's become a fantastic product, I'm buying one!

05-01-2019, 08:33 AM - 1 Like   #330
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, with everyone's input it's become a fantastic product, I'm buying one!
I own this valuable property in Florida you might be interested in.
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