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10-06-2008, 09:49 AM   #16
ogl
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
OK, if you look through this thread you will see that twice (and 2 different) Hoya exec's state that Hoya "ownes" Tokina.
Hoya ownes Tokina??? : Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
My guesstimate is since Tokina/Kenko are a LTD. company their "private stock" may well be owned by Hoya in a majority stake. This appears to be one of those more convoluted relationships.

For $443 US you may be able to find out for sure.
TOKINA CO.,LTD. (Single location) - IRUMA-GUN - JAPAN - D&B - AlacraStore.com
Ogl I used to strongly believe the same thing (Tokina independence) but that wall is crumbling a bit. It still may be true but the pendulum is swinging to some sort of "ownership".
Both Tokina and Kenko are pretty dependent on Hoya...
Of course. To buy 100% of glass is dependence.
No doubts.

But I can't find Mr. Hideto Fukazawa,
There is no such company or division -
Hoya’s Tokina Industrial Division.:ugh:
It's nonsense.

It's so easy to go to
HOYA CORPORATION
and download ALL reports and find there something about Tokina.
The financial report from April, 1, 2007 till March, 31, 2008 is not empty paper which tried to hide Hoya’s Tokina Industrial Division.

http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/ir_newspdf/0530_2.pdf

Also it's easy to find bio of directors of HOYA.


I can't pay 443 USD for Tokina's report.

10-06-2008, 09:50 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
You're all full of sh*t. (if you're easily offended, read: hot air)


Pardon the expression; but why would this matter to the act of taking pictures?

Here's a tip - pick up that camera y'all been keepin' locked in your cupboard for the past measubartion/speculation-filled months and snap a couple of pictures with the lenses you lot have been so feverishly been arguing over. It's good therapy.
It's close to night. The weather will be not good tomorrow and I got a flu.
10-06-2008, 10:20 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It's close to night. The weather will be not good tomorrow and I got a flu.

Same here, but I go to work.
10-06-2008, 11:02 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
What is more important to me is this: Those lenses that are produced with identical optical design by Pentax and Tokina, are they Pentax design or Tokina design from the beginning??? You can find people claiming both ways on the web.
You should take a look at patent repository, you will wuickly find what patents belongs to what company.

AFAIK, the DA12-24 and DFA100 is a Tokina design.
The 10-17,16-50, 50-135, DFA50 are Pentax designs.
DA35 I dunno.

10-06-2008, 01:32 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
Which one of these guys was it that Wendy B was supposed to be related to?
That would be Suzuki!
10-06-2008, 01:33 PM   #21
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I think where the confusion lies is that Hoya is a "public" company and Tokina and Kenko are private which makes it more difficult to make the links.

QuoteQuote:
Pentax’s relationship with parent company Hoya was questioned, with Mr Iue replying that “Hoya is really serious about Pentax, as it’s a well-known consumer brand, which Hoya isn’t”. Mr Iue admitted that Hoya bought Pentax predominantly for their medical division and expertise, but they did also want the camera part too. Hoya firmly denied any plans to sell the Pentax photo division to Samsung or any other company, commenting that they had only just bought the company. Similarly, Hoya aren’t planning to sell the lens-maker Tokina, which they also own, or to merge it with Pentax.
http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/pentax_and_samsung_...p_not_perfect/

Last edited by Blue; 10-06-2008 at 01:46 PM.
10-06-2008, 02:00 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I think where the confusion lies is that Hoya is a "public" company and Tokina and Kenko are private which makes it more difficult to make the links.



Pentax and Samsung Partnership Not Perfect - PhotographyBLOG
My guess is Tokina is structured like this:
Godo kaisha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The members may, either in the agreement or pursuant to the agreement, choose a manager (執行社員, shikkō shain?) from among their ranks. This manager can be either an individual or a corporation; however, corporate managers must appoint a functional manager (業務執行社員, gyōmu shikkō shain?) to perform the actual management duties.
w/ Hoya as a "manager"........
Nobody wants to spend $400 plus but how about $4????
http://www.alacrastore.com/storecontent/dnb2/696680250/dmi
10-06-2008, 06:02 PM   #23
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Rep told me that Hoya is owned by one brother, and Kenko the other brother. His boss has played golf with them. Not sure which, if either company owns Tokina.
thanks
barondla

10-06-2008, 08:16 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Rep told me that Hoya is owned by one brother, and Kenko the other brother. His boss has played golf with them. Not sure which, if either company owns Tokina.
thanks
barondla
Kenko and Tokina (ans Slik and Fujimoto medical imaging?)are one in the same company now.
JAPAN PHOTO AND VIDEO ACCESSORY ASSOCIATION
Translation result for http://www.kenko-tokina.co.jp/
Technically Hoya is a public company and "owned" by it's shareholders.
10-08-2008, 08:48 PM   #25
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Hoya is a decent sized company (large)

They posted their annual report (the fiscal year starts on April 1) as well as their Q1 results (ending June 30). They are a sizable company (approx. $5 billion US in sales).

To give you a sense of scale, Canon is 10x the size w/ cameras approx. $12 billion US alone. Nikon is approx $6 billion US in camera sales. Pentax in total (both med products and camera sales) was $1.8 billion US.

On the not so good front (during Q ending June 30):
"3. Pentax
As for the medical endoscope of PENTAX, sales increased in comparison to the same period of the previous year due to the favorable trend of a new endoscope system compatible with mega-pixel imaging in overseas markets. As for digital cameras, sales have decreased due to declined sales volume of compact cameras, and revenue from single lens reflex cameras has also decreased as our new products faced severe price competitions with competitors. This section has been implementing a structural reorganization in view of future growth, and recorded operating loss in this quarter under review posting expenses for reviewing business strategies, organizational changes, as well as revaluation of assets, etc., in addition of goodwill amortization generated upon integration."

But on the positive side:
Their annual report mentions some positive things about Pentax digital cameras. But this was published before the results above.

"Concerning the digital camera business, we are focusing on
digital SLR cameras, targeting mainly high amateur users, and some
business segments are already experiencing numerical performance
gains thanks to business narrowing and selection, strategic
product mixes and the establishment of new sales channels.
Our initial goal is to boost the operating margin of the Pentax
businesses—primarily medical devices and digital cameras—
non-inclusive of goodwill expenses, to 18% for the next three
years."

Overall, I think it's a good thing that Pentax was acquired by a larger company in a related space (optical glass and equipment). They seem to be focused on the right market: advanced amateurs.... folks who would appreciate the technology/features and quality of Pentax w/o having the need for Ashton Kutcher selling ads for them like Nikon.

Also, let's not forget that if Hoya ever wanted to divest itself of consumer dslrs entirely, then I'm sure Samsung would buy them in a heartbeat. When Pentax was independent, it would have been hard for the Japanese to sell to Koreans, and this still might be the case, but under Samsung, we would be seeing some incredible resources that would make Canon/Nikon look like small fries.
10-08-2008, 08:56 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by laissezfaire Quote
When Pentax was independent, it would have been hard for the Japanese to sell to Koreans, and this still might be the case, but under Samsung, we would be seeing some incredible resources that would make Canon/Nikon look like small fries.
do you know any noticeable Japanese company or part of such company that was sold to any Korean company ? any examples at all ?
10-09-2008, 05:41 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I think where the confusion lies is that Hoya is a "public" company and Tokina and Kenko are private which makes it more difficult to make the links.
Public companies can own private companies outright. Depending on jurisdiction ,t his can involve completely separate governance and reporting structures, much of which is opaque to outside eyes (as we are seeing all too well right now).
10-09-2008, 07:04 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by laissezfaire Quote
They posted their annual report (the fiscal year starts on April 1) as well as their Q1 results (ending June 30). They are a sizable company (approx. $5 billion US in sales).
.
Hoya posts their statements since they are a "public" company but Tokina's is the one few people ever see.
10-09-2008, 07:12 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
You should take a look at patent repository, you will wuickly find what patents belongs to what company.

AFAIK, the DA12-24 and DFA100 is a Tokina design.
The 10-17,16-50, 50-135, DFA50 are Pentax designs.
DA35 I dunno.
Interesting. Any source you can link?

I would have thought the DFA100 was a development of the FA100 macro. Do you mean that even that one is originally a Tokina design? Or that Tokina made the "digitalisation" of the FA100?
10-09-2008, 09:59 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
Interesting. Any source you can link?
Joseph Tainter aka Distudio on DPR if my memory serves me well. He had very inside sources which can't be discolsed but as far as I know Joe is pretty serious and I trust him on this. Otherwise he wouldn't be so sure of himself.

QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
I would have thought the DFA100 was a development of the FA100 macro. Do you mean that even that one is originally a Tokina design? Or that Tokina made the "digitalisation" of the FA100?
No, AFAIK the DFA100 is a Tokina design but as I said I'm not so sure about that one... there have been quite a number of discussions on this topic here and at DPR. I'll try to find'em back (if DPR search decides to work for me lol).
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