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05-10-2019, 09:27 AM - 1 Like   #46
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^^^ Welp. Thus endeth the discussion.

05-10-2019, 09:43 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
they already have top tier fast wa ff primes, they already have 85, 135, etc... AND 3rd party options. pentax does not. i rather have them focus their limited resources... not on redundancy.
  • Sony FE 70-200mm f/4 G OSS: 16 October 2013
  • Zeiss Batis 25mm f/2 (first top-tier wide-angle 24x36 prime lens from third party): 22 April 2015
  • Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 (first 85mm lens from third party): 22 April 2015
  • Sony FE 85mm f/1.4 GM (first 85mm lens from Sony): 3 February 2016
  • Sony FE 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G OSS: 29 March 2016
  • Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 (first 135mm lens from third party): 5 April 2017
  • Sony FE 24mm f/1.4 GM (first top-tier wide-angle 24x36 prime lens from Sony): 20 September 2018
  • Sony FE 135mm f/1.8 GM (first 135mm lens from Sony): 26 February 2019
May be manufacturers' and most people's priorities are different from yours.
05-10-2019, 09:54 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
maybe they'll drop a bunch of lenses at once?
In times of uncertainty, the future tends to be more or less of the present. The number of truly new products from Ricoh Imaging in the past 18 months is a relatively small "bunch" and not all closely related to each other.


At this point, I don't think we should expect to see "lines" of lenses or bodies, new releases will either fill glaring holes in the top tier (DFA * 85, a flagship APS-C body and don't forget the Theta Z-1) or the completion of long-standing projects (DA * 11-18, GRIII) or re-purposing/refurbishing of existing products (DFA 28-105, DA 55-300 PLM, HD FA 35, the "new" WG compact). The DFA 70-200 f4 seems to be only waiting for a green light to start production, so it probably fits into the long-standing project category, the FF long superzoom might belong to either of the last two categories.
05-10-2019, 09:55 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Reed Quote
bdery Will you be making article about FA 35/2 vs HD FA35/2 in anytime soon
A HD 35mm review is planned, yep. comparing it with the FA would be interesting, I don't know if it'll be possible.

QuoteOriginally posted by Reed Quote
I like also reading bdery work on comparing lenses in p-forums articles section
Thanks for that!

05-10-2019, 10:54 AM   #50
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reading pentaxforum can not be ignored what kind of discussion works around ff telezum, first it was: for enthusiastic (and professionals) 70-200 / 4 and pure consumer consumption 70-300 / 4,5-6,3 and finally for advanced users 50 (55) -250 / 4-5,6, currently besides the obligatory telezum 70-200 / 2,8 there is nothing in that rank, there are 70-200 / 4-5,6 "only" 19 years old in the class of dummy objects from sheep and much better in every respect 80-320 / 4,5-5,6 years 17 years, for 80-320 can say that it is a decent consumer lens, those ricoh pentax , in the reconnaissance they do not know whether they would piss or something, they may be pointed out as the dragon who blows fire they throw at the same time and 70-200 / 4 and 50 (55) -250 / 4-5,6, in apsc have a nice selection of lenses in that range, 3 pieces 55-300 4 (4 , 5) -5,8 (6,3) + 60-250 / 4 and not older than 6 years + 50-200 / 4-5,6 10 years of age and but the same class mentioned 70-200 / 4- 5,6, so only 5 pieces of aps lens in telezum and in ff only one costly and big lens which is not exactly for everyone, i do not know how is in other photo brands but would give "poetic" freedom to say I do not it has so much philosophy and slow poor realization

Last edited by mbukal; 05-10-2019 at 11:35 AM.
05-10-2019, 10:55 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
  • Sony FE 70-200mm f/4 G OSS: 16 October 2013
  • Zeiss Batis 25mm f/2 (first top-tier wide-angle 24x36 prime lens from third party): 22 April 2015
  • Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 (first 85mm lens from third party): 22 April 2015
  • Sony FE 85mm f/1.4 GM (first 85mm lens from Sony): 3 February 2016
  • Sony FE 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G OSS: 29 March 2016
  • Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 (first 135mm lens from third party): 5 April 2017
  • Sony FE 24mm f/1.4 GM (first top-tier wide-angle 24x36 prime lens from Sony): 20 September 2018
  • Sony FE 135mm f/1.8 GM (first 135mm lens from Sony): 26 February 2019
May be manufacturers' and most people's priorities are different from yours.

i think you and sony are agreeing with me. sony released a 35(2.8) and 55, then the 70-200f4, then the 25, 90, 85, 50, 35(1.4), then the 70-300. like i said, i'd rather have pentax focus their limited resources... not on redundancy. maybe it will be 3 years before we see a 50/70-300 and a bunch of ff primes will appear in the mean time.
05-10-2019, 11:23 AM - 1 Like   #52
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Perhaps it the pace of releases and age of lenses but I do find the Pentax lineup and release schedule a bit confusing. They would imho do well to consolidate into lines. Fuji is doing this in an exemplary way. It's not very hard to understand their releases. Pentax seems, to my prime wide to normal eyes, to release a lot of strange consumer zooms near the kit spec in various overlapping forms. I understand they probably make sense to someone but they don't to me.
05-10-2019, 11:28 AM - 1 Like   #53
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I wonder if the primes are on a somewhat independent path from the zooms.

They seem to have some interaction between them, but they also seem to be on different schedules.

So it isnít weird to have a 50mm parallel with an 11-18, or an 85 with a 70-200... with delays on one impacting the other at certain points in the development process but not all of them...

-Eric

05-10-2019, 01:12 PM - 1 Like   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
but i don't understand offereing a consumer lens on an $1800 camera before making the missing primes available.
This forum tends to be prime lens oriented but not everyone is. I suspect Pentax research shows far higher potential sales with zoom lenses than with niche primes. I also wonder if the sales numbers generated by the DFA 50mm altered the direction and priority of the lens queue. Just speculating, but if the DFA 50mm did not sell as well as hoped maybe the DFA 85mm got pushed back in the queue.
05-10-2019, 02:05 PM   #55
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But this thread is like the other nothing more then pure speculation.
05-10-2019, 02:31 PM - 1 Like   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
This forum tends to be prime lens oriented but not everyone is. I suspect Pentax research shows far higher potential sales with zoom lenses than with niche primes. I also wonder if the sales numbers generated by the DFA 50mm altered the direction and priority of the lens queue. Just speculating, but if the DFA 50mm did not sell as well as hoped maybe the DFA 85mm got pushed back in the queue.
What would happen to planned production schedules* if the Fat Fifty, which sold out the intial production run before it was even released, continued and continues to outsell planned productio? Given the apparent significant use of hand assembly by a limited number of skilled hand workers on Star and Limited lenses (apparently a Pentax strength), what effect would that have on release dates for the next planned ‘*’ lenses?

* 645z demand pushed back the K-1 release an entire year. monochrome chooses the positive hypothesis.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-10-2019 at 02:43 PM.
05-10-2019, 03:04 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
What would happen to planned production schedules* if the Fat Fifty, which sold out the intial production run before it was even released, continued and continues to outsell planned productio? Given the apparent significant use of hand assembly by a limited number of skilled hand workers on Star and Limited lenses (apparently a Pentax strength), what effect would that have on release dates for the next planned ‘*’ lenses?
That would create a classic manager's nightmare. No right answer, and people yelling at you no matter what you decide. Stop making 50mm's and go out of stock of a proven seller? Or keeping making 50's and delay the 85mm? Glad I don't have to make that call.
05-10-2019, 03:35 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
That would create a classic manager's nightmare. No right answer, and people yelling at you no matter what you decide. Stop making 50mm's and go out of stock of a proven seller? Or keeping making 50's and delay the 85mm? Glad I don't have to make that call.
I actually think that is whatís happening.
05-10-2019, 04:22 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Given the apparent significant use of hand assembly by a limited number of skilled hand workers on Star and Limited lenses (apparently a Pentax strength), what effect would that have on release dates for the next planned Ď*í lenses?
What we don't know is how many people were employed to make Pentax lenses five years ago, compared to now. There is no reason to believe that assembly of DA 50 f1.8's or DA 18-135's is significantly more automated than a DFA * 50 (there might be extra QA tests at the end of the line, but if dealing with rejects and re-works once the batch building process is underway slows down overall production, the factory has a major problem) and the remaining workforce should have the skills needed to switch from Plastic Fantastic to Prime Stars on their next shift. If the production facilities (with the exception of outside suppliers) could handle 2013 demands, they can certainly handle 2019 demands. The use of a 3-D printed mock-up without glass in it to demonstrate the DFA * 85 at CP+ suggests that Ricoh couldn't start building this lens tomorrow, even if they wanted to.
05-10-2019, 05:22 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
What we don't know is how many people were employed to make Pentax lenses five years ago, compared to now. There is no reason to believe that assembly of DA 50 f1.8's or DA 18-135's is significantly more automated than a DFA * 50 (there might be extra QA tests at the end of the line, but if dealing with rejects and re-works once the batch building process is underway slows down overall production, the factory has a major problem) and the remaining workforce should have the skills needed to switch from Plastic Fantastic to Prime Stars on their next shift. If the production facilities (with the exception of outside suppliers) could handle 2013 demands, they can certainly handle 2019 demands. The use of a 3-D printed mock-up without glass in it to demonstrate the DFA * 85 at CP+ suggests that Ricoh couldn't start building this lens tomorrow, even if they wanted to.
In 2014? i’d Imagine they had nearly as many lens assemblers in Vietnam as they do today (which says noting about employees in Sebu assembling cameras). Having correctly identified the SLR sales peak in late 2012, they had already dramatically downsized in the first part of 2013. I wrote about it (last paragraph) on the Forum in May 2013 after I spoke to Jim Malcolm for an hour with a dozen other Forum members.

Who ever said they could start building it tomorrow? Clearly they haven’t ground and polished prototype lens elements yet - or chose not to show them in a mockup at CP+ - but that says nothing about production scheduling in a batch-process assembly facility.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-10-2019 at 05:36 PM.
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