[beholder3]

I wonder what incentive Pentax Japan would have to show anything but a mockup in a situation where they explicitly do not tell the release date, even if they have 99% completed prototypes in their labs. Just because a tiny minority of forum users overseas in not important markets want it?

A product is ready to retail or it is not. I won't take any better pictures with a non-released lens regardless of wether it has solid black plastic front lenses or real glass front lenses.

And I won't make any buying decisions based on a prototype of any status either.

[Andrea K]

A camera and lens maker who wants to compete in this market must have three lines of zoom:
1- fixed fast aperture
2- fixed medium aperture
3- variable aperture

[monochrome]

A camera and lens maker who wants to compete in this market must have three lines of zoom:
1- fixed fast aperture
2- fixed medium aperture
3- variable aperture

What does that statement mean? Why use imperative?

• Define compete
• Compete with what / whom
• Compete in what “market” (what is a market?)
• Compete for what end?

Why must Pentax compete at all?

[Mistral75]

But this thread is like the other nothing more then pure speculation.

It's a rumour thread but unfortunately based on two hoaxes, sort of.

1. asahi man used an HD Pentax-D FA 150-450mm f/4.5-5.6 ED DC AW to convey a cryptic, yet to be deciphered message about the future Telephoto Zoom Lens (its current name on the roadmap).
   xxx
2. On 5 May zackspeed (a retailer in Berlin, Germany, post count 18,246) wrote on DigitalFotoNetz.de that the Pentax D FA 50-300mm f/4.5-6.3 was on its way in a thread opened by him and then named 'Pentax 50-300 fullframe im Anmarsch'.
   
   See the first post in this very thread as proof, the page header, including the thread title, was captured by Pentax Forums servers: 'DigitalFotoNetz.de :: Thema anzeigen - Pentax 50-300 fullframe im Anmarsch')
   
   On 10 May, after asahi man had made his 'coming out', zackspeed surreptitiously changed the title of his thread that now reads 'Pentax 70-300 fullframe im Anmarsch'. Unfortunately for him he forgot to, or couldn't, change the content of his second post in this thread:
   

   4,5 - 6,3 50-300 offen schon sehr hohe Leistung und Bedienung ans 150-450 angelehnt.
   Kompakt.

   Source: DigitalFotoNetz.de :: Thema anzeigen - Pentax 70-300 fullframe im Anmarsch (note the modified title as captured now by Pentax Forums servers)

I must confess I find zackspeed's behaviour quite dishonest.

[house]

Let me fix that for you ;-)

A camera and lens maker who wants to compete in this market must have two lines of prime lenses in the ~20mm to ~85mm FF range:

1- Fast ~f1.4 aperture
2- "Slow" ~f2 aperture

The limiteds complicate this picture because they are slow and expensive whilst being small and nice jewellery. They necessarily become a third line which must be difficult for a company that appears to keep new products at a minimum.

[monochrome]

Let me fix that for you ;-)



The limiteds complicate this picture because they are slow and expensive whilst being small and nice jewellery. They necessarily become a third line which must be difficult for a company that appears to keep new products at a minimum.

The Limiteds define Pentax. They should expand the lens line - modern AF motors or screwdrive - as a ‘Limited’ standard just as defined as the ‘*’ standard.

• Classic: DA / FA Limited primes
• Modern: DA20~40

[house]

The Limiteds define Pentax.

Sure, but they do make it complicated for Pentax. You *need* cheapish primes and you *need* top performance and durability primes. The limited are neither but as you say they arguably define Pentax.

So Pentax need three separate lines of prime lenses. Must be really hard to decide which one to release at any given point. None of the lines will ever appear complete or even adequate.

Perhaps the current limited lineup should be considered complete? A nice set of near normal lenses for both FF and apsc. Extreme fl limiteds would be an odd development don't you think? Would make the above pickle easier to get out of as well.

[monochrome]

Sure, but they do make it complicated for Pentax. You *need* cheapish primes and you *need* top performance and durability primes. The limited are neither but as you say they arguably define Pentax.

So Pentax need three separate lines of prime lenses. Must be really hard to decide which one to release at any given point. None of the lines will ever appear complete or even adequate.

Perhaps the current limited lineup should be considered complete? A nice set of near normal lenses for both FF and apsc. Extreme fl limiteds would be an odd development don't you think? Would make the above pickle easier to get out of as well.

I think the assumption that Pentax ‘needs’ anything is a straw man. Pentax is Pentax. It is not and never will be another CaNiSony, so it can not and should not strive to match or emulate them. We need to ignore the traditional frame of reference when considering Pantax’s next steps.

[beholder3]

You *need* cheapish primes

Probably not.

a) primes are niche products in all forms

b) the "cheapish" part of the market is dying fastest so it would be nonsense to invest any money in it. For entry situation two kit lenses are definitely enough. The DFA 28-105 covers one half and the 70-300 will cover the rest. With the 70-200/4 being an surprise excess bonus.

[house]

I guess there is a risk that as the market contracts brands will differentiate along various lines including focusing on primes OR zooms. Pentax is arguably defined by their primes (Limiteds) but that could of course change with ownership.

[xmeda]

There are more missing things.. to make FF system comparable option for customers:
20/1.4
24/1.4
35/1.4
85/1.4
135/1.4
*300/2.8
*400/2.8

12-24/4
(*14-24/2.8)
(*24-70/2.8)
28-200/3.5-5.6
50-300/4.5-5.6
70-200/4
150-600/4.5-6.3

= highly unlikely to happen within next 5 or even 10 years under Ricoh. While other competitors do offer these already. And I bet, that even new R canon and Z nikon would be covered completely by modern dedicated lenses faster than our 50 years old K mount.



On the other hand DA line mainly needs 16-50 and 50-135 rebuild/refresh, HD18-135 mod and some fast F2.8 limited lenses in 16 to 20mm range. + new camera of course. Rest is covered pretty well.

Concerning removal of all current 55-300 (DA-WR, DA-L and DA PLM) lenses and build one FF 50-300, there is no need to make that lens significantly bigger than original DA55-300 and also focusing can be done same way as on current PLM.

[Kunzite]

Concerning removal of all current 55-300 (DA-WR, DA-L and DA PLM) lenses and build one FF 50-300, there is no need to make that lens significantly bigger than original DA55-300 and also focusing can be done same way as on current PLM.

What makes you so sure it can be done? Increasing the format covered while keeping or improving the image quality, keeping a light focusing element to allow PLM focusing, keeping a small size and retractable design, keeping a low price.

It makes no sense to assume all this is doable. As usual, when people are accusing Pentax of not thinking.

[ThorSanchez]

What makes you so sure it can be done? Increasing the format covered while keeping or improving the image quality, keeping a light focusing element to allow PLM focusing, keeping a small size and retractable design, keeping a low price.

It makes no sense to assume all this is doable. As usual, when people are accusing Pentax of not thinking.

Maybe to him "not significantly" means only 50% heavier, 20% larger, 20% slower focusing, and 50% more expensive. If you're accustomed to FF f/2.8 glass then those are probably very reasonable compromises.

[mbukal]

It makes no sense to assume all this is doable. As usual, when people are accusing Pentax of not thinking.

must be feasible in the ring combat, equal struggle, not just a spariring partner canon and nicon, Pentax possesses a thankful FF body K1, but unfortunately it can not cover the range with advanced lenses, ranging from 24 mm to approx. 300mm constant aperture f4, or in that range with the combination of f2.8 ~ 4, can not even with the consumer combination aperture of f3.5 ~ 5.8 (6.3) in the range 28 ~ 300mm, Pentax loses its race with in time to issue the required FF range of 28 (24) ~ 300mm as with aperture f4 as well as consumer f3.5-5.8, sadly but true, correct me if i'm wrong


if I ever need an aperture of f2.8 and I have the money then I will be available for current professional equipment from 15mm to 200mm with aperture f2.8 and accompanied by dedicated primes with aperture max. f1.4 (1.8)
who will come to the future that you can freely talk about = the sooner the better, the better ever than never

currently none of the combinations mentioned is possible with Pentax

I wish they could have a signature range of 24mm to cca. 300mm aperture f 4 (5.8) with the Pentax DFA mark, as I had in property of in the apsc with DA (12-24 / 4 + 17-70 / 4 + 55-300 / 4-5.8) ,and I also had the possibility of a combination depending on the needs and financial possibilities in apsc-u, in FF I have no choice even not with new tokina and sigma and tamron

Currently Pentax is just a only good photo sparing partner in FF format

[Kunzite]

Maybe to him "not significantly" means only 50% heavier, 20% larger, 20% slower focusing, and 50% more expensive. If you're accustomed to FF f/2.8 glass then those are probably very reasonable compromises.

One can choose a lens 50% heavier, 20% larger, 20% slower focusing and 50% more expensive. That is reasonable.
But saying nobody should be able to get the lighter, smaller, faster focusing, less expensive 55-300 RE PLM is completely unreasonable. Made worse by the insult.