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05-19-2019, 08:42 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
On the other hand the number of pessimistic thought is growing, so that's a positive (growing = positive).
Thanks for explaining that, I was confused.

The first project in my photography classes were a pinhole camera. That's a fundamental no frills camera. Once you've made one, you never have to ask what the fundamental camera is again.

The first thing that happened was some guy got a thin brass plates and drilled a hole in it for a more precise hole diameter, where as everyone else made a hole in tinfoil with a pin. It didn't take long for students to see the problems with "fundamental". But they all loved the assignment. And by the time it was done they understood light sensitivity and contact printing.


Last edited by normhead; 05-19-2019 at 09:48 AM.
05-19-2019, 08:45 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Thanks for explaining that, I was confused.
The collapse of the camera market is a thing. It's raining outside, so I had nothing to do, so I commented.
05-19-2019, 08:49 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The collapse of the camera market is a thing. It's raining outside, so I had nothing to do, so I commented.
It's been that kind of spring. My feeders are full of birds I could photograph, I haven't had decent light for days. Last time out I took 65 images and got one keeper, and it was seriously degraded by high ISO which on dark days the K-3 is not so good at handling. The others were all ruined by motion blur. I probably wouldn't have posted the one I got, but I didn't want to feel I'd wasted all that time.

Currently over 120 birds are at my feeders, including some I haven't seen for years. But it's another grey cloudy day.
05-19-2019, 09:53 AM - 2 Likes   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well one difference is when that gear was new purchased handling as a company. When you buy and run a company then there are tax reduction that make those camera's and lenses cheaper. You have to keep them and use them for a while, but the write-off is mostly down to zero. So you can sell them secondhand and keep the proceeds. But with fewer people actually making money on photography and running a business with it.....that group gets smaller over time.
I very seriously doubt that changes in the number of pros is more than a rounding error the camera makers.

CIPA reports shipments of over a million interchangeable lens cameras to the Americas and yet the Professional Photographers of America (PPA) has 30,000 members and the The American Society of Media Photographers only has 7,000 members. Even if you assume that professionals buy a new camera every single year (extremely unlikely!), they represent on a few % of total market.

Sure, professionals play a huge role in marketing because a lot of non-pro buyers like the idea of using "pro" equipment. But I'd bet that >90% of actual camera sales go to hobbyists, enthusiasts, and upper-middle class consumers who think they need a "real camera."

05-19-2019, 10:30 AM - 1 Like   #80
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1,000,000 vs even 100,000 pros is still 0.1%. It would be hard to imagine that pros have much effect at all on the market. Maybe more in the MF market, but also maybe not. Despite the folks here that have expressed that the market is driven by what pros need, pros will figure it out with whatever camera. The first driving force is always going to be the consumer market, and they will try and feature as many desirable pro features into their various slots in the consumer market as they can. But consumers pay the bills, not pros.
05-19-2019, 12:15 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It would be hard to imagine that pros have much effect at all on the market.
Other than influence camera buyers, expecially MILC and DSLR buyers.
05-19-2019, 01:55 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Other than influence camera buyers, expecially MILC and DSLR buyers.
It's always dangerous to make that kind of assumption. We know the camera manufacturers think they influence consumers, but the theory is pretty much untestable.
05-19-2019, 03:33 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's always dangerous to make that kind of assumption. We know the camera manufacturers think they influence consumers, but the theory is pretty much untestable.
Ever heard of the term "social media Influencers" that's what some of the so called Pros are. Canon and Nikon have active social media influencers. Tony and Chelsea Northrup come to mind look at the following they have on social media. You don't think the uninitiated aren't swayed by what they shoot? Some Pros are working professional photographers some are influencers some are both. Just my two cents worth.

05-19-2019, 03:50 PM - 1 Like   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Ever heard of the term "social media Influencers" that's what some of the so called Pros are. Canon and Nikon have active social media influencers. Tony and Chelsea Northrup come to mind look at the following they have on social media. You don't think the uninitiated aren't swayed by what they shoot? Some Pros are working professional photographers some are influencers some are both. Just my two cents worth.
I'd say people are too smart to get sucked in by that nonsense, but I know better. I've spend hours on this forum trying to talk people out of stuff they learned from the Northrups.
05-19-2019, 05:31 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'd say people are too smart to get sucked in by that nonsense, but I know better. I've spend hours on this forum trying to talk people out of stuff they learned from the Northrups.
You'd think they would be but remember the phrase "there's a sucker born every minute" it applies to those who are influenced unwittingly by people such as the Northrups and have to have the latest and greatest toy just because.
05-19-2019, 05:59 PM - 1 Like   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's been that kind of spring. My feeders are full of birds I could photograph, I haven't had decent light for days. Last time out I took 65 images and got one keeper, and it was seriously degraded by high ISO which on dark days the K-3 is not so good at handling. The others were all ruined by motion blur. I probably wouldn't have posted the one I got, but I didn't want to feel I'd wasted all that time.

Currently over 120 birds are at my feeders, including some I haven't seen for years. But it's another grey cloudy day.
Time to rig up some kinda remote fill light at the feeders!
Eri
05-19-2019, 07:31 PM - 1 Like   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
I very seriously doubt that changes in the number of pros is more than a rounding error the camera makers.

CIPA reports shipments of over a million interchangeable lens cameras to the Americas and yet the Professional Photographers of America (PPA) has 30,000 members and the The American Society of Media Photographers only has 7,000 members. Even if you assume that professionals buy a new camera every single year (extremely unlikely!), they represent on a few % of total market.

Sure, professionals play a huge role in marketing because a lot of non-pro buyers like the idea of using "pro" equipment. But I'd bet that >90% of actual camera sales go to hobbyists, enthusiasts, and upper-middle class consumers who think they need a "real camera."
I can’t authoritatively affirm that >90% of actual camera sales go to hobbyists, enthusiasts, and upper-middle class consumers who think they need a "real camera" but my daughter was a member of The American Society of Media Photographers when she worked for a Network Broadcast News company and remains a member of the Screenwriters Guild - East (her Union). She has said over and over about my compulsive gear buying that real professional photographers are conservative with their gear purchases/leases, using the minimum possible to get the best images possible, which makes sense. Pros (or the companies that employ them and often own the gear) are interested in making more money than they spend, Gear is an expense. Professionals wear out their gear before replacing it unless there is a real technology advantage - better images, faster, with less Post for instance because the gear changed. Those new advantages are less frequent now than in the first ten years of the digital conversion.

She once tried assigning Remotes with 5D’s instead of Sony professional shoulder cams, but it didn’t work. The video togs never learned to pull focus with a DSLR. Now she is the Communications and Media Director for a State Executive Branch Office (her employer is The Office of the [ . . . . . ]. Among her many responsibilities is directing the social media for the State Office.

Last week she ordered an iPhone shoot with a Gimbal to post to Instagram.

Telling?

Last edited by monochrome; 05-19-2019 at 09:11 PM.
05-19-2019, 08:34 PM - 1 Like   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Last week she ordered an iPhone shoot with a Gimbal to post to Instagram.
Now that's luxury! [insert Monty Python skit here]
My university dropout son is now a communications officer for the Province of Ontario. The ministry he works for posted a live feed of a news conference on social media (held at a gas station to make a major announcement in the carbon tax wars), the number of viewers was 5, 4 of which were government officials. It turned out that the fifth viewer was my son's mother. I missed the live feed, but I later watched the video posted by a Toronto daily and it was full of wind noise and the minister's aide leaning into the frame every 15 seconds (along with a hapless driver who decided to go elsewhere to fill up). Who knew that mainstream media would end up mimicking "citizen-produced" news instead of staying on the professional path?
05-19-2019, 08:52 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Now that's luxury! [insert Monty Python skit here]
My university dropout son is now a communications officer for the Province of Ontario. The ministry he works for posted a live feed of a news conference on social media (held at a gas station to make a major announcement in the carbon tax wars), the number of viewers was 5, 4 of which were government officials. It turned out that the fifth viewer was my son's mother. I missed the live feed, but I later watched the video posted by a Toronto daily and it was full of wind noise and the minister's aide leaning into the frame every 15 seconds (along with a hapless driver who decided to go elsewhere to fill up). Who knew that mainstream media would end up mimicking "citizen-produced" news instead of staying on the professional path?
That’s why The Office of the [ . . . . .] hired a former Network live Broadcast News Operations Producer with a ten year professional Vitae and a Media Fellow academic background to do this. They don’t want to look like citizen journalists. Social Media is the right channel to reach the audience they ‘message’ and an iPhone is the right tool for the task, but you can make the output look professional with the right peripherals.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-19-2019 at 09:14 PM.
05-19-2019, 10:35 PM - 1 Like   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's been that kind of spring. My feeders are full of birds I could photograph, I haven't had decent light for days. Last time out I took 65 images and got one keeper, and it was seriously degraded by high ISO which on dark days the K-3 is not so good at handling. The others were all ruined by motion blur. I probably wouldn't have posted the one I got, but I didn't want to feel I'd wasted all that time.

Currently over 120 birds are at my feeders, including some I haven't seen for years. But it's another grey cloudy day.
Nice. Ours are swarming with birds in spring plumage as well. These days, I donít take that many birding shots with my Pentax gear, though.

Iím OK with the low light performance of the K3, because the resolution suits me. The one thing that keeps my old favorite K3 out of my hands is the AF. The continuous AF in the K3 already couldnít keep up with my old D7200, but the D500 AF is like Krell technology compared to a K3. Auto focus points swarm to moving birds. Please, Ricoh, bring SAFOX and SDM into this decade. The ergonomics on the K3 and K1 are a big advantage over Nikon and Sony, but the result still needs to be in focus.

---------- Post added 05-19-19 at 10:39 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
Time to rig up some kinda remote fill light at the feeders!
Eri
Godox now works with P-TTL, and it is pretty sweet having 200WS units mounted on your gimbal.

Last edited by GeneV; 05-20-2019 at 05:21 AM.
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