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05-30-2019, 03:19 PM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Why are digital cameras still shaped like film cameras?????
I think we know the answer to this one. Conservatism. Look at the popularity of the Fuji X cameras, great looking, but ergonomically not a patch on a Pentax K-1.

05-31-2019, 12:54 AM - 2 Likes   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I think we know the answer to this one. Conservatism. Look at the popularity of the Fuji X cameras, great looking, but ergonomically not a patch on a Pentax K-1.
Not "conservatism". Good design is just undeniable.

05-31-2019, 01:41 AM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
Look at the popularity of the Fuji X cameras, great looking, but ergonomically not a patch on a Pentax K-1.
It depends on the individual.


The K-1 is a big heavy camera which captures great images as a field camera.


The Fujis can range from the little XE-3 or XT-30 to the hybrid viewfinder Xpro1/2,then onto the XT-3 to which you can add a grip.ALL a joy to use with a versatility range that is pretty awesome.
05-31-2019, 03:07 AM - 2 Likes   #34
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Modern cameras are the size they are because of a need to add features (SR/GPS/more auto focus points/more megapixels/faster frame rate/video/tiltable screens) all of which requires quite a bit of battery power. You can definitely shrink them down quite a bit, but you do so at the expense of buttons (meaning more menu diving) and battery life (meaning you bring more batteries with you for a photo shoot).

Ergonomics are a person specific thing and hard to comment on. I like Pentax's approach, but I have shot with their cameras for 15 plus years and am used to them. Someone who is coming from Canon or Sony probably wouldn't feel the same.

05-31-2019, 03:20 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
The K-1 is a big heavy camera which captures great images as a field camera.
I get triggered by "trol" type statements. I don't find the K1 body to be big / heavy at all, it all changes with I attach an f2.8 lens and / or a battery grip. The K1 body itself isn't big, it's rather narrow for a full frame camera, basically smaller than any other FF DSLR, some FF MILC have the same size and weight as the K1.
05-31-2019, 04:10 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I get triggered by "trol" type statements. I don't find the K1 body to be big / heavy at all, it all changes with I attach an f2.8 lens and / or a battery grip. The K1 body itself isn't big, it's rather narrow for a full frame camera, basically smaller than any other FF DSLR, some FF MILC have the same size and weight as the K1.
Not a " ...." statement,just accurate

So lets get specific.Compared to other FF 36mp its a big camera.The Nikon D810 is taller and wider but narrower.K-1 is the heaviest FF 36mp camera.The Nikon is a big 36mp FF camera too.

The $ony A7R is lighter and smaller in all dimensions.
05-31-2019, 04:32 AM - 1 Like   #37
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K1: 110mm x 136.5mm x 85.5mm = 1283782.5 mm3
D810: 123mm x 146mm x 81.5mm =1463577 mm3

The D810 is 14% larger than the K1. A good camera should be as small as possible without sacrificing the comfort of the user and it should be not too light weight in order to allow shooting at relatively low shutter speed without inducing image blur. The A7 isn't included in the comparison because it's not a DSLR and it's not comfortable to hold, not ergonomic, other than that Sony could have only fitted a mother board and a lens mount into a plastic case and the camera would be even smaller but even more difficult to use than the current A7 are.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 05-31-2019 at 04:37 AM.
05-31-2019, 04:45 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The A7 isn't included in the comparison because it's not a DSLR
Sorry you dont understand the comparison.

It involves the Fuji X cameras and the K-1,if you dont understand that...whatever.

I own and use all the cameras I mentioned in the response post to Cynogs statement.

As I stated in response to him "it depends on the individual"

Ask any Pentaxian who bought a K-1 after using an Apsc Pentax,they could tell you its bigger and heavier.

05-31-2019, 06:19 AM - 2 Likes   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Sorry you dont understand the comparison.
Sorry but you don't understand photography. Camera centrist thinking = FAIL. You need to consider the whole imaging chain from the photographer ability to see the light, framing, camera setting, lens field of view, processing of the raw image, up to the image display on media paper, canvas, framing of the prints/canvas (mat board etc), display background, lighting of the dislay, projection, etc else. You only look at the camera body, that can be more wrong. A Pentax camera is perfectly fine when you do the whole imaging chain because you then realized that the differences between brands for the same format are irrelevant.
05-31-2019, 08:47 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Sorry you dont understand the comparison.

It involves the Fuji X cameras and the K-1,if you dont understand that...whatever.

I own and use all the cameras I mentioned in the response post to Cynogs statement.

As I stated in response to him "it depends on the individual"

Ask any Pentaxian who bought a K-1 after using an Apsc Pentax,they could tell you its bigger and heavier.

It does depend on the individual, of course. I used film cameras back in the day, and they were functional, but not particularly ergonomic until later designs with grips and contoured bodies came along (thinking of my Z1p here, a camera I loved). These designs carried over onto DSLRs by and large. I have many cameras now of various brands (though not Sony - I hate them), both DSLRs and mirrorless, and the ones I enjoy using most have deep grips and enough real estate for sensibly spaced, well-placed buttons and controls. Others may enjoy the hark back to "tradional" design, but in my opinion there's no such thing really, given the many sizes and shapes of film cameras. The K-1 is reasonably (some may say "reassuringly") heavy, but despite being in my 70s now, I don't find it a burden, because I have small and lightweight lenses for it. I don't really notice it being heavier than my K-3s and K-5s because being smaller, they feel denser. At the end of the day it is very much a case of each to his/her own, and long may it be so!
05-31-2019, 12:03 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
It does depend on the individual, of course. I used film cameras back in the day, and they were functional, but not particularly ergonomic until later designs with grips and contoured bodies came along (thinking of my Z1p here, a camera I loved). These designs carried over onto DSLRs by and large. I have many cameras now of various brands (though not Sony - I hate them), both DSLRs and mirrorless, and the ones I enjoy using most have deep grips and enough real estate for sensibly spaced, well-placed buttons and controls. Others may enjoy the hark back to "tradional" design, but in my opinion there's no such thing really, given the many sizes and shapes of film cameras. The K-1 is reasonably (some may say "reassuringly") heavy, but despite being in my 70s now, I don't find it a burden, because I have small and lightweight lenses for it. I don't really notice it being heavier than my K-3s and K-5s because being smaller, they feel denser. At the end of the day it is very much a case of each to his/her own, and long may it be so!
This is entirely an opinion - mine is different. I hate deep grips and contoured bodies. I learned to take a photo by putting my right thumb under the body and pressing down on it with my forefinger on the shutter button - something almost impossible to do with the monsters they build today. I use the smallest grip available for my KP, and that is almost small enough. So many people today claim they cannot handle a long lens on a body with a 'small' grip, but that was routine fifty years ago, because we knew how to hold a camera to make it work.
05-31-2019, 12:15 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I learned to take a photo by putting my right thumb under the body and pressing down on it with my forefinger on the shutter button - something almost impossible to do with the monsters they build today.
With a manual focus lens this sounds like something worth trying, but otherwise I'm so used to back-button AF that I would find this approach unworkable.
05-31-2019, 12:25 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
though not Sony - I hate them
Ha ha, i think along the same lines but "hate" is a strong word.I'd use dislike as my description.

I've had a few $ony products that have failed hence my dislike.My 2014 $ony Z3 amazingly still functions but has always overheated.


QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
The K-1 is reasonably (some may say "reassuringly") heavy, but despite being in my 70s now, I don't find it a burden, because I have small and lightweight lenses for it
Yes, i know that weight.The lightest I can put together is with the 40mm and with that assembly Ive gone streetshooting.Its a heavy camera for that.It gets very heavy when the Star zoom or the Bigma get attached.

---------- Post added 06-01-19 at 07:22 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Sorry but you don't understand photography.
yeah,i always thought that about you too.

biAz,a big A is appropriate.
05-31-2019, 01:40 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Ha ha, i think along the same lines but "hate" is a strong word.I'd use dislike as my description.

I've had a few $ony products that have failed hence my dislike.My 2014 $ony Z3 amazingly still functions but has always overheated.
I have had a similar experience with Sony products, and I have also experienced what Sony terms "Customer Service". Hence my hate.
05-31-2019, 09:11 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
yeah,i always thought that about you too.biAz,a big A is appropriate.
The thing is, I do have photographic projects in my pipeline, and it's not about camera marketing and which camera weight 80gr less and what not. Actual results trump vaporware, so you can write absolutely anything this doesn't touch me (basically, as long as actually results confirm my thinking, I can't care less about virtual things).

Last edited by biz-engineer; 05-31-2019 at 09:20 PM.
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