New Sony APS-C Sensor - 26MP

Rico · 07-26-2019, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

*cough* GR III writes as fast as the NX-1 *cough*
Why do I bother? He will continue to ignore this, as it doesn't fit the narrative.

Show how the GRIII is writing as fast as the NX1? It doesn't fit the narrative because the GRIII performance specs are not even close to what the NX1 delivers.

Kunzite · 07-26-2019, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Rico

Show how the GRIII is writing as fast as the NX1? It doesn't fit the narrative because the GRIII performance specs are not even close to what the NX1 delivers.

I'm making a temporary pause in ignoring you and your obsession, so I'll respond this one time.
I know because I measured my own GR III as writing at over 60MB/sec.
Also, Imaging Resource agrees with my measurements: Ricoh GR III Review - Performance
9 RAW frames in the buffer, with 4 seconds to clear. Do the math.

OTOH I'm able to separate and reason about various performance aspects, and you're not. Card write speed is card write speed; not "performance specs".

swanlefitte · 07-26-2019, 10:31 AM

With a full buffer the nx1 top write speed was 1.8 fps. The griii has 2.1 for continuous RAW. Not sure the avg file size of each so can't say what difference there is but the griii probably has a small advantage.
From previous site for nx1 and here for griii. Ricoh GR III Review - Performance

Kunzite · 07-26-2019, 10:49 AM

It appears like the GR III's files are somewhat smaller, this can be due to the lower resolution (24 vs 28MP), lower noise, better lossless compression etc.

The only thing I care about - besides the GR III being nicely responsive - is that Ricoh Imaging decided to update the electronics, and I expect that to be seen in their future DSLRs.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-26-2019, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

The only thing I care about - besides the GR III being nicely responsive - is that Ricoh Imaging decided to update the electronics, and I expect that to be seen in their future DSLRs.

Let's hope so, but they are different teams for designing.

Rico · 07-26-2019, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I'm making a temporary pause in ignoring you and your obsession, so I'll respond this one time.
I know because I measured my own GR III as writing at over 60MB/sec.
Also, Imaging Resource agrees with my measurements: Ricoh GR III Review - Performance
9 RAW frames in the buffer, with 4 seconds to clear. Do the math.

OTOH I'm able to separate and reason about various performance aspects, and you're not. Card write speed is card write speed; not "performance specs".

Kunzite I think you are a little obsessed here. Please don't project this onto me. I have looked at the numbers and it is pretty clear the advantages of UHS-II.

Mistral75 · 07-26-2019, 11:59 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Rico

Kunzite I think you are a little obsessed here. Please don't project this onto me. I have looked at the numbers and it is pretty clear the advantages of UHS-II.

Fascinating!

swanlefitte · 07-26-2019, 12:03 PM

Found good estimates of avg file sizes. Pentax 24 about 35Mb samsung 28 about 46Mb. That's about 74-83 nx1 or 16% faster.
One objective point established but clearly not enough among all the collective points and indeed the subjective meaning of the value of this one point.

Rico · 07-26-2019, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by swanlefitte

Found good estimates of avg file sizes. Pentax 24 about 35Mb samsung 28 about 46Mb. That's about 74-83 nx1 or 16% faster.
One objective point established but clearly not enough among all the collective points and indeed the subjective meaning of the value of this one point.

swanlefitte why don't you compare the K-3II or the KP with the Fujifilm X-T 2. I did after all point to both Samsung and Fuji as using UHS-II since 2014.

These are very similar cameras with 24mp sensor all released relatively at the same time. The K-3II and KP don't even come close to the numbers the XT-2 delivers due to the UHS-II bus in the XT-2.

---------- Post added 07-26-19 at 04:29 PM ----------

Originally posted by Mistral75

Fascinating!

Oh boy the obsessed insult poster right on time. Bravo!

surfar · 07-26-2019, 01:38 PM

Youtu.be

swanlefitte · 07-26-2019, 01:42 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Rico

swanlefitte why don't you compare the K-3II or the KP with the Fujifilm X-T 2.

Because that has updated other parts. Your argument is that they don't matter. Without them the uhs2 does little. The fuji xt2 uses them and then you get write speeds faster.
No one has argued that to go faster than where uhs1 maxes out at, you will need faster. The argument is that you need an entire rework of a camera before uhs2 makes sense.

**BigMackCam** · 07-26-2019, 02:04 PM - **7 Likes**

Folks...

Snarky comments - and snarky responses to snarky comments - are neither within the rules nor the general spirit of these forums. This isn't how we treat each other here. Please desist.

Let me also remind everyone that we are each wholly responsible for the way other members perceive us.

Please let's present facts and opinions constructively and respectfully, or not at all. The next post that ignores this polite request will be deleted, and earn that member both an infraction and thread ban. Sound fair?

Thank you

Rico · 07-26-2019, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by swanlefitte

Because that has updated other parts. Your argument is that they don't matter. Without them the uhs2 does little. The fuji xt2 uses them and then you get write speeds faster.
No one has argued that to go faster than where uhs1 maxes out at, you will need faster. The argument is that you need an entire rework of a camera before uhs2 makes sense.

The KP in 2018 did have what you claim is needed. The KP had new sensor new electronics including the Accelerator Unit. The one thing it lacks is UHS-II which is, IMHO, the sole reason the specs against the XT-2 are so poor. The XT-2 clears the full buffer of 22 RAW files in 5 to 7 seconds. They are clearing that fast due to the UHS-II bus. The K-3II is even a better comparison as buffer size holds the same amount of files. The reason the K-3II takes so long to clear the "buffer" compared to the XT-2 is the limitation of the UHS-I bus.

swanlefitte · 07-26-2019, 03:26 PM - **2 Likes**

Pentax K-3 Review - Performance and Burst Mode | PentaxForums.com Reviews
Avg file size 30 at 2.6sec=78 on uhs1 with 95Mb card?
Edit: whoops I multiplied instead of division. 30/2.6=11.6mbs 34/2.6=13
Even assuming 34Mb files still not using uhs1 potential.
Here the best is 37.2
Pentax K-3 II SD Card Write Speed Comparison of Fastest Memory Cards for the Pentax K3 II Digital Camera - Camera Memory Speed Comparison & Performance tests for SD and CF cards
Here they say 1.79fps with full buffer.
Pentax K-3 II Review - Performance
Is there any evidence anywhere the k3ii or kp is close to maxing out the write speed? I can't find anything to support the bus mattered.

reh321 · 07-26-2019, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Rico

The KP in 2018 did have what you claim is needed. The KP had new sensor new electronics including the Accelerator Unit. The one thing it lacks, IMHO, is UHS-II which is the sole reason the specs against the XT-2 are so poor. The XT-2 clears the full buffer of 22 RAW files in 5 to 7 seconds. They are clearing that fast due to the UHS-II bus. The K-3II is even a better comparison as buffer size holds the same amount of files. The reason the K-3II takes so long to clear the "buffer" compared to the XT-2 is the limitation of the UHS-I bus.

The 'accelerator' should have no effect on speed.
The "electronics" that would be needed to speed up clearing the buffer is a new processor.

07-26-2019, 02:04 PM - 7 Likes	#807
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,645	Folks... Snarky comments - and snarky responses to snarky comments - are neither within the rules nor the general spirit of these forums. This isn't how we treat each other here. Please desist. Let me also remind everyone that we are each wholly responsible for the way other members perceive us. Please let's present facts and opinions constructively and respectfully, or not at all. The next post that ignores this polite request will be deleted, and earn that member both an infraction and thread ban. Sound fair? Thank you Last edited by BigMackCam; 07-26-2019 at 02:09 PM.

07-26-2019, 03:10 PM	#808
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,204	Originally posted by swanlefitte Because that has updated other parts. Your argument is that they don't matter. Without them the uhs2 does little. The fuji xt2 uses them and then you get write speeds faster. No one has argued that to go faster than where uhs1 maxes out at, you will need faster. The argument is that you need an entire rework of a camera before uhs2 makes sense. The KP in 2018 did have what you claim is needed. The KP had new sensor new electronics including the Accelerator Unit. The one thing it lacks is UHS-II which is, IMHO, the sole reason the specs against the XT-2 are so poor. The XT-2 clears the full buffer of 22 RAW files in 5 to 7 seconds. They are clearing that fast due to the UHS-II bus. The K-3II is even a better comparison as buffer size holds the same amount of files. The reason the K-3II takes so long to clear the "buffer" compared to the XT-2 is the limitation of the UHS-I bus. Last edited by BigMackCam; 07-30-2019 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Edited to assist the member in discussions

07-26-2019, 03:26 PM - 2 Likes	#809
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	Pentax K-3 Review - Performance and Burst Mode \| PentaxForums.com Reviews Avg file size 30 at 2.6sec=78 on uhs1 with 95Mb card? Edit: whoops I multiplied instead of division. 30/2.6=11.6mbs 34/2.6=13 Even assuming 34Mb files still not using uhs1 potential. Here the best is 37.2 Pentax K-3 II SD Card Write Speed Comparison of Fastest Memory Cards for the Pentax K3 II Digital Camera - Camera Memory Speed Comparison & Performance tests for SD and CF cards Here they say 1.79fps with full buffer. Pentax K-3 II Review - Performance Is there any evidence anywhere the k3ii or kp is close to maxing out the write speed? I can't find anything to support the bus mattered. Last edited by swanlefitte; 07-26-2019 at 04:25 PM.

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07-26-2019, 10:10 AM	#796
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,204	Originally posted by Kunzite cough GR III writes as fast as the NX-1 cough Why do I bother? He will continue to ignore this, as it doesn't fit the narrative. Show how the GRIII is writing as fast as the NX1? It doesn't fit the narrative because the GRIII performance specs are not even close to what the NX1 delivers.

07-26-2019, 10:25 AM	#797
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Rico Show how the GRIII is writing as fast as the NX1? It doesn't fit the narrative because the GRIII performance specs are not even close to what the NX1 delivers. I'm making a temporary pause in ignoring you and your obsession, so I'll respond this one time. I know because I measured my own GR III as writing at over 60MB/sec. Also, Imaging Resource agrees with my measurements: Ricoh GR III Review - Performance 9 RAW frames in the buffer, with 4 seconds to clear. Do the math. OTOH I'm able to separate and reason about various performance aspects, and you're not. Card write speed is card write speed; not "performance specs".

07-26-2019, 10:31 AM	#798
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	With a full buffer the nx1 top write speed was 1.8 fps. The griii has 2.1 for continuous RAW. Not sure the avg file size of each so can't say what difference there is but the griii probably has a small advantage. From previous site for nx1 and here for griii. Ricoh GR III Review - Performance

07-26-2019, 10:49 AM	#799
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	It appears like the GR III's files are somewhat smaller, this can be due to the lower resolution (24 vs 28MP), lower noise, better lossless compression etc. The only thing I care about - besides the GR III being nicely responsive - is that Ricoh Imaging decided to update the electronics, and I expect that to be seen in their future DSLRs.

07-26-2019, 11:02 AM	#800
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Kunzite The only thing I care about - besides the GR III being nicely responsive - is that Ricoh Imaging decided to update the electronics, and I expect that to be seen in their future DSLRs. Let's hope so, but they are different teams for designing.

07-26-2019, 11:41 AM	#801
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,204	Originally posted by Kunzite I'm making a temporary pause in ignoring you and your obsession, so I'll respond this one time. I know because I measured my own GR III as writing at over 60MB/sec. Also, Imaging Resource agrees with my measurements: Ricoh GR III Review - Performance 9 RAW frames in the buffer, with 4 seconds to clear. Do the math. OTOH I'm able to separate and reason about various performance aspects, and you're not. Card write speed is card write speed; not "performance specs". Kunzite I think you are a little obsessed here. Please don't project this onto me. I have looked at the numbers and it is pretty clear the advantages of UHS-II.

07-26-2019, 11:59 AM - 3 Likes	#802
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,526	Originally posted by Rico Kunzite I think you are a little obsessed here. Please don't project this onto me. I have looked at the numbers and it is pretty clear the advantages of UHS-II. Fascinating!

07-26-2019, 12:03 PM	#803
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	Found good estimates of avg file sizes. Pentax 24 about 35Mb samsung 28 about 46Mb. That's about 74-83 nx1 or 16% faster. One objective point established but clearly not enough among all the collective points and indeed the subjective meaning of the value of this one point.

07-26-2019, 01:27 PM	#804
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,204	Originally posted by swanlefitte Found good estimates of avg file sizes. Pentax 24 about 35Mb samsung 28 about 46Mb. That's about 74-83 nx1 or 16% faster. One objective point established but clearly not enough among all the collective points and indeed the subjective meaning of the value of this one point. swanlefitte why don't you compare the K-3II or the KP with the Fujifilm X-T 2. I did after all point to both Samsung and Fuji as using UHS-II since 2014. These are very similar cameras with 24mp sensor all released relatively at the same time. The K-3II and KP don't even come close to the numbers the XT-2 delivers due to the UHS-II bus in the XT-2. ---------- Post added 07-26-19 at 04:29 PM ---------- Originally posted by Mistral75 Fascinating! Oh boy the obsessed insult poster right on time. Bravo!

07-26-2019, 01:42 PM - 2 Likes	#806
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	Originally posted by Rico swanlefitte why don't you compare the K-3II or the KP with the Fujifilm X-T 2. Because that has updated other parts. Your argument is that they don't matter. Without them the uhs2 does little. The fuji xt2 uses them and then you get write speeds faster. No one has argued that to go faster than where uhs1 maxes out at, you will need faster. The argument is that you need an entire rework of a camera before uhs2 makes sense.

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07-26-2019, 05:15 PM	#810
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,175	Originally posted by Rico The KP in 2018 did have what you claim is needed. The KP had new sensor new electronics including the Accelerator Unit. The one thing it lacks, IMHO, is UHS-II which is the sole reason the specs against the XT-2 are so poor. The XT-2 clears the full buffer of 22 RAW files in 5 to 7 seconds. They are clearing that fast due to the UHS-II bus. The K-3II is even a better comparison as buffer size holds the same amount of files. The reason the K-3II takes so long to clear the "buffer" compared to the XT-2 is the limitation of the UHS-I bus. The 'accelerator' should have no effect on speed. The "electronics" that would be needed to speed up clearing the buffer is a new processor.