[normhead]

My experience with Sigma (sample size 1, the 50-500 OS HSM) service was so good that I wanted to buy more of their lenses but they had already discontinued or never made the models I wanted. The 50-500 lens is well made but it was in the service department where Sigma truly shined.


My 50-500 was offered a minor tweak when the K-1 came out. They issued an announcement that the K-1 body could be scratched by the lens and were replacing mounts for free. Sigma immediately answered emails and phone calls. They arranged for me to stop by their service center when I was in the area, and they completed the work in 30 minutes while I waited. Yes, they made an error in the original mount, but the way they handled it was in my opinion flawless. It's the best customer service experience I have ever had.

We sent in my Sigma 18-250 for decentering. They replaced two parts I didn't even know were broken and sent it back still decentered. The bill they sent me lead me to believe they didn't even address the decentering, even though I provided sample images. SO for me it was great warranty service, that didn't address the problem that made the lens unusable.

So my question is , is it great service if the lens still doesn't work when you get it back? Having sent lenses to Sun Camera, Pentax's official repair depot in Canada, I can also report great service, with the caveat, the lenses were useful when they came back. This to me says, better designed to be harder to damage, and easier to repair correctly once damaged. My Pentax lenses have only been sent in after serious drops. My Sigma lenses just failed for no apparent reason.

It would be interesting to run a poll on this issue if I could figure out how to frame it. We need more info. My Sigma 70 and 8-16 I'd recommend to anyone (with the caveat that my 70 macro use has fallen off completely with my acquisition of the lighter WR and cheaper DFA 100 macro WR, and that the Sigma 8-16 is unlikely to outperform the DA*11-18 if you're a perfectionist.) Perhaps it should be tailored towards identifying problem lenses rather than trying to make blanket statements about a whole company.

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Last edited by normhead; 09-11-2019 at 08:31 AM.

[mtgmansf]

Forgot to mention that Rokinon, Wallimax, and Samyang still make manual focus lenses for Pentax. For APS-c, I believe the Sigma 10-20mm f3.5, 18-35mm, and 18-50mm will be missed. About Sigma reliability - I have a nine year old 10-20mm that still works fine, a 100-400mm contemporary for Nikon that is three years old and works fine, a 70mm macro that is 10 years and is fine. A Sigma 20mm f1.8 that is 12 years old that works fine, but I have had a 28-105mm and 70-300mm that had their autofocus give up the ghost after 2-3 years. From what I have read, the Sigma 70-300mm has often been mentioned as having a dead autofocus issue, but maybe that because it is one of their most sold lenses as well?

[biz-engineer]

The R&D resource cost contribution to the release of a new product is usually the smallest part in the cost structure of a new product.

What kind of product? If the product is a can of Coca Cola, R&D is a very small budget.

I assume you have never worked in an R&D environment, have you?

I haven't worked in R&D environment in Switzerland. But for Switzerland I agree and R&D expenses are minimal in comparison to everything else. For example, a pizza costs 8 euros in Austria, and the same pizza costs 25 euros in Zurich area, while both pizzas are made out of the same brand of tomato cans and mozzarella imported from Italy, and that's a pizza without R&D

[Fenwoodian]

.
I've owned a few Sigma lenses over the years. 10 - 20 years ago, Sigma lenses were rubbish. I remember spending a lot of money on a new Sigma 120-300 f/2.8 lens about 20 years ago. I was in a hotel room in the Monument Valley area when I accidentally dropped this lens about 1 foot onto the carpeted floor - it was totaled!

Flash forward to today... I've owned some modern day Sigma lenses and I've not had problems with them. However, the latest lenses Sigma's been releasing have in my opinion, the best bokeh I've ever seen (Sigma 35mm f/1.2's bokeh is other-worldly). I currently shoot Pentax, Fuji, Panasonic, and Nikon; however I'm planning to also buy a Sony full frame camera just so I can shoot the Sigma 35/1.2 lens - it's that good!

My favorite lenses are Zeiss Milvus lenses (some in Nikon F mount, and others adapted to K mount). While the best Zeiss lenses still have the best 3D-like pop and depth, the OOF background blur produced by the latest Sigma lenses (35/1.2, 135/1.8, 85/1.4) are dreamier/creamier than the best Zeiss lenses.

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Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 09-11-2019 at 09:13 PM.

[UlrichSchiegg]

What kind of product? If the product is a can of Coca Cola, R&D is a very small budget.


I haven't worked in R&D environment in Switzerland. But for Switzerland I agree and R&D expenses are minimal in comparison to everything else. For example, a pizza costs 8 euros in Austria, and the same pizza costs 25 euros in Zurich area, while both pizzas are made out of the same brand of tomato cans and mozzarella imported from Italy, and that's a pizza without R&D

We spoke about cameras, no?


Have you worked in any R&D environment? Are you sure, that you understand what R&D is? You are quoting the cost structure of products here (in different countries, in different areas of a country), which have very little to do with the R&D costs.

[biz-engineer]

Have you worked in any R&D environment? Are you sure, that you understand what R&D is? You are quoting the cost structure of products here (in different countries, in different areas of a country), which have very little to do with the R&D costs.

Those questions would require to tell more about me, but I don't wish to do so online in a public forum. It is always possible to provide evidence with numbers, but the risk isn't worth the benefit (the small benefit of demonstrating we are right to someone we don't know...). So, I'll let it go.

---------- Post added 11-09-19 at 20:13 ----------

The R&D resource cost contribution to the release of a new product is usually the smallest part in the cost structure of a new product.

??? So it is very mysterious why Ricoh haven't released more cameras in the last two years, while others have released a number of new models. You should have a word to the CEO of Ricoh Imaging to review his cost structures because according to you he must be wrong.

[y0chang]

I mean the fact that Sigma has launched an entire line of prime lenses from 14mm to 135mm...then retrofitted them for E-mount...but none of them were available for Pentax mount, should tell you the level of commitment that Sigma has to K-mount.

[normhead]

Usually we get news about 2 weeks before a release. But you're right. There is not even any beta testers telling us they can't tell us what they know. When kenspo was here he knew when something was coming, even if he couldn't say what. " I can't say what but you're going to like it." We seem to be in a Pentax dark zone at the moment. As biz engineer pointed out, Pentax isn't going to say they've suspended operation until they're sure they won't revive it, even if they have stopped work on Pentax products.

However that doesn't really mean anything, it's just one perspective. There are other interpretations. Like a they've gone all Steve Jobs on us, and there will be a rollout announcement at some time with many featured products. Until Pentax rolls over and stretches so we can see what's under the blankets, we won't know. Odds are, it won't be what a lot of people want, but it also won't be nothing at all. It could be lots of new product, it could be no new product, just a birthday card with no presents. All are possible at this point. Without someone like kenspo, we can't even speculate on what's probable.

[BarneyL]

.
Flash forward to today... I've owned some modern day Sigma lenses and I've not had problems with them. However, the latest lenses Sigma's been releasing have in my opinion, the best bokeh I've ever seen (Sigma 35mm f/1.2's bokeh is other-worldly). I currently shoot Pentax, Fuji, Panasonic, and Nikon; however I'm planning to also buy a Sony full frame camera just so I can shoot the Sigma 35/1.2 lens - it's that good!

You might be interested in Lenstip's fresh review of the Sigma A 35mm 1.2.
Sigma A 35 mm f/1.2 DG DN review - Coma, astigmatism and bokeh - LensTip.com

I'm not a fan of Sigma's approach to the subject, but bokeh is, and always will be, a subjective thing.

[Rondec]

Lenses should be included in analysis of the situation and it would make no sense that Pentax would release the HD 10-17, HD FA 35, and DA *11-18mm if they weren't planning to continue to support K mount cameras. I know that the 10-17 and 35 are both based on old designs but, they required new production runs and if Pentax would shut down K mount operations, they would have a bunch of glass on their hands that no one was expecting.

I think the bigger thing to remember is that the overall camera market is tanking in a major way. Companies like Canon and Nikon and even Sony that are slamming out new release after new release could easily take a beating as their products get pumped out to require deep discounts to sell or worse yet, just sit on shelves, unsold. The most likely thing in this sort of a market is that Ricoh has decided that now is a time for patience, for conservative timetables for new releases, particularly camera bodies, where it will take significant R and D to match the performance that they have said is their goal.

I still expect a K3 sequel and K-1 sequel -- probably both with the same underlying auto focus engine and other updates. KP could just be discounted and take the place of the K-70. But please understand that I don't know anything. I just tend to be optimistic and don't see any reason to believe that the situation is as dark as some think it is.

---------- Post added 09-11-19 at 03:53 PM ----------

You might be interested in Lenstip's fresh review of the Sigma A 35mm 1.2.
Sigma A 35 mm f/1.2 DG DN review - Coma, astigmatism and bokeh - LensTip.com

I'm not a fan of Sigma's approach to the subject, but bokeh is, and always will be, a subjective thing.

Just took a look at the sample photos there and the bokeh is not anything to write home about. It's OK, but certainly nothing that stands out.

Nothing close to what I would expect from my DA *55 or FA 77.

[normhead]

You might be interested in Lenstip's fresh review of the Sigma A 35mm 1.2.
Sigma A 35 mm f/1.2 DG DN review - Coma, astigmatism and bokeh - LensTip.com

I'm not a fan of Sigma's approach to the subject, but bokeh is, and always will be, a subjective thing.

Weird bokeh on the mail box makes the shot pretty much unusable in my opinion, and vignetting at 1.2 in the first image is worse than my DA 55-300 at 108mm. But, Pentax doesn't call the 55-300 PLM a full frame lens.

[kevinWE]

Sigma doesn’t have to cut corners. I have a Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 for my KP; I also have an EF-mount Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 dating back to when I was a Canon user. As nearly as I can tell, the front ends of the two lenses are the same - only the mount differs. If Sigma is able to batch-produce just the optical parts - same for all mounts, and then “batch” advertising and distribution - they may be able to save enough money that they can sell for less without resorting to cheap manufacturing methods.

It's all in how the business is structured? I would imagine that's the case, but I have no idea how their process works, the actual data would be crucial when making manufacturing statements. I like to read facts, we all have opinions, but opinions are not facts.

[normhead]

It's all in how the business is structured? I would imagine that's the case, but I have no idea how their process works, the actual data would be crucial when making manufacturing statements. I like to read facts, we all have opinions, but opinions are not facts.

Without numbers we don't know if Sigma makes enough lenses to have any advantage in the scale of their operations. The assumption being that because they sell to Sony, Canon and Nikon they produce more lenses than those companies. But it's quite possible that those companies produce more lenses for their one brand than Sigma does for all three, in which case the fact that Sigma has to support three mounts as compared to one would be a detriment. The fact that they dropped Pentax could be seen as evidence that it isn't as easy to support a number of mounts as some seem to be assuming.

There are many ways of looking at this. I'm not willing to suggest which is right but without knowing Sigma sells more lenses than Sony, Canon and Nikon do, I'm not buying into the advantage of scale argument. Basic facts have to be established before that argument makes any sense at all.

Clearly if each of those companies sells more 35mm lenses from one production line than Sigma sells 35 1.2s, then Sigma is actually at the losing end of the advantages of scale argument.

[Socrateeze]

There is no leak of info, no tangible rumor, nothing. So, to me it looks more like Ricoh's goal is to push sales (discounts) of existing products until the 100 Year anniversary, and then we don't know. No new product for 18 months basically means the Pentax staff is gone elsewhere working on things other than K mount product, automotive camera or laser module? At CP+ 2018 were still executives from Pentax division, at CP+2019 a new young guy to answer PF questions, where have the other executives been? Why the product manager of the K1 moved as product manager for the GRIII on Ricoh side? Is there still a Pentax team inside Ricoh? OR Canon hired all of Pentax lens designers to boost the release of their own RF lenseS, and Ricoh has to postpone the DFA85 and DFA70-200 f4?

All very interesting points and very good questions.

[fsge]

Disappointing from sigma.
They should acquire pentax and leverage on that... They have original approaches on bodys but never really boomed with their own cameras despite genuine efforts. I love this new sigma fp concept, very pentax-esque as a out of nowhere product. Would it be available in K mount I would buy it for sure...