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09-18-2019, 08:19 AM   #331
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
I think it's mostly the K-3/K-3 II crowd who are looking for a new camera. Pentax has made advancements in their cameras and APS-C "flagship" shooters (like me) want them.
Sure, but the thread title implies that it's a problem if Ricoh doesn't release a new camera in general. It's not quite the same as not releasing a specific kind of product needed by a fraction of K mount users.

Our "old" ILC thinking is formatted by decades of lens mount compatibility hoping to "invest" long term in lenses, while upgrading camera bodies more frequently. If Pentax doesn't give me a new camera body in case my K3 fails, I can "switch" to Nikon (D500+F mount lenses), but Nikon doesn't guarantee me that they are going to continue to make F mount camera bodies after the D500. So, I'm trapped, no camera maker guarantees me that they are going to continue making new cameras that will work with the lenses I own, and no camera company ever guaranteed anything about lens mount longevity. As the camera market shrinks and new mirrorless mounts are introduced, there is a lot of uncertainty in the longevity of lens mounts. For myself , I now have to consider the cost of a camera and a set of lenses as the total cost for getting a new camera model => I concluded that I would never buy more than three lenses for a specific ILC mount. The era we could build a system slowly over the years is over.

---------- Post added 18-09-19 at 17:54 ----------

Old thinking frequently seen in this site:
- I expect to use my lenses for 20 years, but I want all the recent technological improvements from the new camera bodies
- I expect to see bricks&mortar shops selling camera gear of my favorite brand for trying, but I purchase online

In 2019, old thinking is over. You have to buy camera and lenses the same day, because you don't know if the brand is still going to be making cameras and lenses tomorrow.


Last edited by biz-engineer; 09-18-2019 at 08:35 AM.
09-18-2019, 09:19 AM   #332
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Sure, but the thread title implies that it's a problem if Ricoh doesn't release a new camera in general. It's not quite the same as not releasing a specific kind of product needed by a fraction of K mount users.

Our "old" ILC thinking is formatted by decades of lens mount compatibility hoping to "invest" long term in lenses, while upgrading camera bodies more frequently. If Pentax doesn't give me a new camera body in case my K3 fails, I can "switch" to Nikon (D500+F mount lenses), but Nikon doesn't guarantee me that they are going to continue to make F mount camera bodies after the D500. So, I'm trapped, no camera maker guarantees me that they are going to continue making new cameras that will work with the lenses I own, and no camera company ever guaranteed anything about lens mount longevity. As the camera market shrinks and new mirrorless mounts are introduced, there is a lot of uncertainty in the longevity of lens mounts. For myself , I now have to consider the cost of a camera and a set of lenses as the total cost for getting a new camera model => I concluded that I would never buy more than three lenses for a specific ILC mount. The era we could build a system slowly over the years is over.

---------- Post added 18-09-19 at 17:54 ----------

Old thinking frequently seen in this site:
- I expect to use my lenses for 20 years, but I want all the recent technological improvements from the new camera bodies
- I expect to see bricks&mortar shops selling camera gear of my favorite brand for trying, but I purchase online

In 2019, old thinking is over. You have to buy camera and lenses the same day, because you don't know if the brand is still going to be making cameras and lenses tomorrow.
Next year you can submit to the Borg, buy an iPhone with three lenses, and capture 99% of the images that 99.9% of photographers ever make. Just don’t try a moon shot or astro or macro or strobist.
09-18-2019, 09:19 AM - 1 Like   #333
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
I think it's mostly the K-3/K-3 II crowd who are looking for a new camera. Pentax has made advancements in their cameras and APS-C "flagship" shooters (like me) want them.

There's also the problem that it is almost impossible to buy a new K-3 II, and it is difficult to locate a used K-3 series camera in excellent condition froma reputable seller, and on those proces have gone up. If my K-3 II failed, I would rather spend $1200 or something on a new APS-C flagship than $800 on a used K-3 II that is supposedly in excellent condition from an ebay seller in Japan.

Frankly, if my K-3 II failed in the near future, I would seriously consider switching brands, simply because I'm feeling boxed in.
Yes!! And don't forget the K-5 crowd, who probabaly are also looking for a new APS-C flagship replacement. I've come very close twice this year to chucking Pentax because I can't replace my K-5II with a new equivalent that has better AF, but still has IR and a large buffer.

Last edited by Gray; 09-18-2019 at 09:28 AM.
09-18-2019, 10:49 AM   #334
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QuoteOriginally posted by RookieGuy Quote
With or without optional 35mm film capabilities?
Ha--of course I said that tongue in cheek

09-18-2019, 11:14 AM   #335
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Next year you can submit to the Borg, buy an iPhone with three lenses, and capture 99% of the images that 99.9% of photographers ever make. Just don’t try a moon shot or astro or macro or strobist.
A rejection comment. Nothing prevent from buying an ILC with three lenses and consider it as a whole package until that system becomes outdated. Then scrap it and buy another system. We simply can't buy a camera based on a lens roadmap anymore, we have to buy the camera and the lenses when both are available.
09-18-2019, 11:28 AM   #336
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
In 2019, old thinking is over. You have to buy camera and lenses the same day, because you don't know if the brand is still going to be making cameras and lenses tomorrow.
Biz-E: I disagree. Pentax has had the K-mount for many years, Leica has had the M-Mount for decades (since 1953)--not all manufacturers are NiKanOny. Some with long pedigrees (I.e., Pentax offer that comfort of continuity. Technically, Pentax could have changed the mount of the FF K-1 series, but they didn't. RICOH went overboard to provide crop Firmware so APS-c lenses could capture photos without shadows or tunneling. I trust Pentax to continue on that path.

---------- Post added 09-18-19 at 11:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
In 2019, old thinking is over. You have to buy camera and lenses the same day, because you don't know if the brand is still going to be making cameras and lenses tomorrow.
Biz-E: I disagree. Pentax has had the K-mount for many years, Leica has had the M-Mount for decades (since 1953)--not all manufacturers are NiKanOny. Some with long pedigrees (I.e., Pentax offer that comfort of continuity. Technically, Pentax could have changed the mount of the FF K-1 series, but they didn't. RICOH went overboard to provide crop Firmware so APS-c lenses could capture photos without shadows or tunneling. I trust Pentax to continue on that path.
09-18-2019, 12:01 PM - 1 Like   #337
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Sure, but the thread title implies that it's a problem if Ricoh doesn't release a new camera in general. It's not quite the same as not releasing a specific kind of product needed by a fraction of K mount users.

Our "old" ILC thinking is formatted by decades of lens mount compatibility hoping to "invest" long term in lenses, while upgrading camera bodies more frequently. If Pentax doesn't give me a new camera body in case my K3 fails, I can "switch" to Nikon (D500+F mount lenses), but Nikon doesn't guarantee me that they are going to continue to make F mount camera bodies after the D500. So, I'm trapped, no camera maker guarantees me that they are going to continue making new cameras that will work with the lenses I own, and no camera company ever guaranteed anything about lens mount longevity. As the camera market shrinks and new mirrorless mounts are introduced, there is a lot of uncertainty in the longevity of lens mounts. For myself , I now have to consider the cost of a camera and a set of lenses as the total cost for getting a new camera model => I concluded that I would never buy more than three lenses for a specific ILC mount. The era we could build a system slowly over the years is over.
Personally, I'm not looking for a guarantee; I'm looking for the optimal solution for my 2-headed dilemma: a) if my K-3 II fails I need to replace it, and b) Pentax has the ability to create a better APS-C flagship and I would like the opportunity to purchase it. If Pentax were to announce a new mount for APS-C I would be fine with that, in the sense that it would provide some clarity for my future camera usage.


QuoteQuote:
---------- Post added 18-09-19 at 17:54 ----------
QuoteQuote:
Old thinking frequently seen in this site:
- I expect to use my lenses for 20 years, but I want all the recent technological improvements from the new camera bodies
Yes, many of us expect this.


QuoteQuote:
- I expect to see bricks&mortar shops selling camera gear of my favorite brand for trying, but I purchase online
Not too many people expect this - people would like to see Pentax in B&M shops, but few people expect to see Pentax in B&M shops.


QuoteQuote:
In 2019, old thinking is over. You have to buy camera and lenses the same day, because you don't know if the brand is still going to be making cameras and lenses tomorrow.
I'm different from many - but not all! - people on this forum in that I freqently shoot old, manual focus glass. In fact, I'm covered from 17mm to 600mm with lenses that have aperture rings, including 300/2.8, 400/4, and 500/4.5... so switching to another brand would not be an economic hardship for me. I just wouldn't particularly like it. Right now, for what I do and the way I do it, Pentax is the best brand for me.

09-18-2019, 12:11 PM - 3 Likes   #338
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Just don’t try a moon shot...
Funny, I was trying moon shots just last night, as the sky was as clear as one could reasonably hope for here in NW NJ.

My tripod does not seem to be up to the task, and I am still a work-in-progress This is the best I could do with the K 500/4.5 + A 2x-L, but I know "better" is yet to be unlocked...


Last edited by luftfluss; 09-18-2019 at 04:14 PM. Reason: sp
09-18-2019, 12:32 PM - 1 Like   #339
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Next year you can submit to the Borg, buy an iPhone with three lenses, and capture 99% of the images that 99.9% of photographers ever make. Just don’t try a moon shot or astro or macro or strobist.
That's still an exaggeration. Sports. Long-distance landscapes. Wildlife. Birds. In the last month I've probably taken 500 or more pictures that would have been impossible with any cell phone made today. On my vacation last month with a K-3ii and a 55-300PLM I got dozens of keepers that no one else in our group even thought about attempting with their phones. One minute I'm taking photos of Alps 30 miles away, then an Austrian Air Force trainer flys up the valley and I'm taking airshow pictures. With a phone you could barely see the plane or the mountains.

---------- Post added 09-18-19 at 03:34 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Not too many people expect this - people would like to see Pentax in B&M shops, but few people expect to see Pentax in B&M shops.
It would be an interesting novelty. I've never seen a Pentax camera or lens in a store. I certainly don't expect it.
09-18-2019, 12:40 PM - 1 Like   #340
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
Biz-E: I disagree.
You can disagree with Samsung withdrawing from the camera business, but your disagreement wouldn't have changed anything.
09-18-2019, 01:29 PM   #341
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Biz-E: I disagree. You can disagree with Samsung withdrawing from the camera business, but your disagreement wouldn't have changed anything.
Samsung did not quit the camera business, they simply put into their phones and laptops.....However, you did not respond to my point which was that Pentax has shown no signs of abandoning decades of k-mount glass for its users.Likewise, other iconic Camera makers such as Leica have not abandoned their classic mounts either. Why? because certain camera manufacturers appreciate the fact that loyalty is more than putting out rebadged cameras with 150 focus points and cheap non-durable bodies. I find the number of focus points on my Pentaxes to be more than adequate. BIZ-E: I have read many of your posts and I know you like being contrary, but you simply are incorrect on your conclusion this time.
It's OK--in a discussion such as this there are no winners. WHY? Because I don't possess a crystal ball that will tell me if Pentax will keep the K-mount indefinitely, on that point you are correct. But based upon their most recent releases (K-1/ii and KP) I don't see them abandoning APS-c.
Cheeerio

---------- Post added 09-18-19 at 01:32 PM ----------

I think that is a terrific go at the moon...plus it's well cropped. Keep shooting, you clearly are developing a knack for Astro-photography.
09-18-2019, 01:36 PM   #342
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Originally posted by luftfluss QuoteNot too many people expect this - people would like to see Pentax in B&M shops, but few people expect to see Pentax in B&M shops.It would be an interesting novelty. I've never seen a Pentax camera or lens in a store. I certainly don't expect it.
I have! And that is why I jumped at a lightly used K-1 that was listed here at a great price. (I think I said I would take it less than 6 minutes after it was initially posted.) I made the salesman at the camera store take the K-1 back after a minute because I really wanted it two years ago when I tried it out, but knew my budget could not handle the purchase of a new one.

---------- Post added 09-18-19 at 16:38 ----------

I verified the six minute claim from the sold page! The next PM was at the half hour mark I think. I am happy that I jumped though, it is an amazing camera.
09-18-2019, 01:56 PM   #343
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QuoteOriginally posted by Merv-O Quote
However, you did not respond to my point which was that Pentax has shown no signs of abandoning decades of k-mount glass for its users.Likewise, other iconic Camera makers such as Leica have not abandoned their classic mounts either. Why? because certain camera manufacturers appreciate the fact that loyalty is more than putting out rebadged cameras with 150 focus points and cheap non-durable bodies.
I don't know, the camera company who have kept the same mount for long aren't having lots of market share in $ amount. It's nice to allow customers to upgrade cameras without having to buy new lenses, but there's also a downside that doing so doesn't generate enough revenues from the lenses, which would explain why Ricoh wasn't in a hurry to release a DFA 20mm, DFA 85mm or DFA 70-200 f4 zoom. The sum of customers using FA lens on their K1 cameras will reduce the market for a new lens. Ricoh released the DFA*70-200, based on sales of that lens vs number of K1 bodies sold, they may have revised their plans for new DFA lenses.

---------- Post added 18-09-19 at 23:07 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
dilemma: a) if my K-3 II fails I need to replace it
Any customer of any product (cameras, lenses, cars, whatever...) will have that problem when purchasing a product shortly before it's commercial end-of-life. Fuji customers who bought an XT1 and like the focus aid button and have their XT1 fail, can't replace it with a new XT1 body because Fuji discontinued the XT1, and can't be replaced by an XT2 or XT2 or X-H1 because those model don't have the focus aid button.
The solution to that problem for ILC cameras is either to buy a newer camera model (the current Pentax apsc top of the line apsc camera is the Pentax KP), or to buy a back-up camera body of the same model.
I have bought a Pentax K1 Mk II as a backup to my Pentax K1. If the Pentax K1 fails, I'll use the Pentax K1 II regardless of what Ricoh does with Pentax.

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
dilemma: b) Pentax has the ability to create a better APS-C flagship and I would like the opportunity to purchase it.
That's not a problem in itself, unless your desire to have a higher burst rate camera was awaken by the Nikon D500. If you get a D500, don't forget to buy two of them (if not already discontinued without replacement by Nikon).
09-18-2019, 02:18 PM   #344
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QuoteOriginally posted by dstar Quote
So if Pentax has no plan for new camera this fall
May be good time change topic for example
What will be best beer match with different Pentax camera KIII K1 or KP
Cheer
While I try to drink local, it's tough to beat a pint of Fullers ESB on tap at my local.
09-18-2019, 02:24 PM   #345
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QuoteOriginally posted by troika Quote
While I try to drink local, it's tough to beat a pint of Fullers ESB on tap at my local.
Can you get Fullers ESB in America? Cool. Is it imported or brewed under license?

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