[normhead]

I have been under the assumption that Ricoh was in the business of making cameras and gear. JEZZUS, I must have been wrong all these years.

They are. And they have considerably more cameras and gear available than I'll ever be able to buy currently in their catalogue. Apparently others have itchy pockets full of money and will only buy newly released product.

[monochrome]

There was a post on this forum earlier this year who quoted a interview with a pentax official, saying that there was high probability for a new camera release in q1-q2 2020.
So no release this fall, is no surprise.

Yes, there was. And the LX was released in the 61st year of Asahi, “In Honor Of” the 60th Anniversary.

[Trickortreat]

My point is that the money that Canon and Nikon are throwing at all those new cameras and lenses won't grow them either, because the buyers aren't out there. It doesn't matter so much for Sony, because the camera business is just a minor sideline for them.What I've been trying to say is that deciding not to release so many new cameras and lenses is actually the most profitable strategy in the current market.

There is another side of the medal - standing idle will just loose market share. Dunno for Pentax, maybe 1% to 0,5% for them isnt a big deal. But if Canon were to drop from 50% to 25% I think it would be a disaster for them.

[normhead]

Yes there was. And the LX was released in the 61st year of Asahi, “In Honor Of” the 60th Anniversary.

How do you know that? I'm continually amazed.

[luftfluss]

My point is that the money that Canon and Nikon are throwing at all those new cameras and lenses won't grow them either, because the buyers aren't out there. It doesn't matter so much for Sony, because the camera business is just a minor sideline for them.

What I've been trying to say is that deciding not to release so many new cameras and lenses is actually the most profitable strategy in the current market.

Sure, this applies to companies like Canon and Nikon, who for years flooded the market with barely distinguishable iterations of low-end cameras. Pentax has never been this way.

The problem for some Pentax users - like me - is that if my K-3 II were to fail tomorrow, it will be difficult to source a replacement. I might try a KP + battery grip, but I also have another brand in mind to audition in case of emergency.

Note that a number of Nikonians who shot the D300 left the brand because they felt abandoned when Nikon went nearly a decade without a true replacment until the D500.

[normhead]

There is another side of the medal - standing idle will just loose market share. Dunno for Pentax, maybe 1% to 0,5% for them isnt a big deal. But if Canon were to drop from 50% to 25% I think it would be a disaster for them.

The market is shrinking. Pentax is probably one of the few companies holding it's own in sales and thereby increasing market share, even though they may not be increasing actual sales numbers. You are not "standing idle" if you are selling product. Selling at the same pace is not the same as idle.

As for losing market share, that assumes you don't have desirable product to sell. I can think of 5 Pentax lenses I'd buy today with enough money. DA 560, DA 150-405, K-P, FA 31, FA 77, DFA 15-30. It'll be a long time before Pentax loses market share because I've run out of desirable product to buy. I guess a lot of people have deeper pockets than me, already have everything Pentax and have to find a new brand just to spend their budgeted amounts.

A company with 3 ILC cameras in their catalogue can maintain market share. Market share is not dependant on new releases. It relates more to having product people want to buy.

[Chris Mak]

My point is that the money that Canon and Nikon are throwing at all those new cameras and lenses won't grow them either, because the buyers aren't out there. It doesn't matter so much for Sony, because the camera business is just a minor sideline for them.

What I've been trying to say is that deciding not to release so many new cameras and lenses is actually the most profitable strategy in the current market.

The days of big money in the camera/lens making business are over for sure. I shot Olympus and Pentax in the past, and when deciding to switch, I wanted to switch to a company that doesn't neccessarily pump out new cameras at the highest possible pace, but I did want to get away from the inertia that has been the Pentax of the last years. Even if there is no longer big money to be made making cameras, I still feel there's sense in keeping with the times and invest a bit more than the absolute minimal amount, as seems to be the Pentax way under Ricoh. I certainly can respect people who feel comfortable with that, but it is just not for me. I still follow Pentax a bit, hope in a way that a worthy K3II successor would come out, if only for my appreciation of the DA560 that I used for 5 years.

[Dartmoor Dave]

There is another side of the medal - standing idle will just loose market share. Dunno for Pentax, maybe 1% to 0,5% for them isnt a big deal. But if Canon were to drop from 50% to 25% I think it would be a disaster for them.

And of course that disaster for Canon would be great news for Pentax. Canon and Nikon have tried to create new demand with their mirrorless offerings, and they've discovered that the demand just isn't there. Pentax hasn't made that mistake.

[stevebrot]

Works for the POTUS.

Short-term assignment,, of course


Steve

(...not political, I swear! )

[house]

Looking at apsc releases since the K-3 II there's been basically no Pentax relevant improvements by any brand. Eye AF being mirrorless tech. Most other brands are catching up with IBIS and pixel shift with only very minor improvements to IQ. I can't see why Pentax would release a new body under these circumstances. Sure they could put out a deep buffer camera but it would be a pretty minor new model. They could be working on their own tech that makes a new model worthwhile but across the market its pretty slow.

They could however do a lot better in regards to lenses. Withdraw all screw drive lenses, put out internal motor ones. Release lots of primes for apsc and ff!

[Spodeworld]

The way I see it is that it's more than some guy with access to the Twitter account. I know from working at large corporations in the digital "space" that social media is taken very seriously these days and is a cornerstone of their marketing and outreach. There's usually a team that deals with social media, all kinds of metrics are monitored and reported on (positive, negative, etc.) and if someone sends out a post from the official account, and is just making up crap, well, it will get back to management and he or she will be hearing from them before long. Anyway, I hope it was just some schizo who posted that out, because I want the upgrade to the K3 - really want a flip out screen with touch focus on APS-C to make life easier when attempting challenging perspectives...plus the inclusion of the 5-axis stabilization would be nice too (I know it's already on the KP).

Does some guy with access to the Ricoh twitter account , count as a "Pentax official." I guess. Does the guy who made the tweet have inside knowledge at Pentax operations? Who knows. YOU have accountability when you know the name of the guy and his position in the company. I'm not trusting that the guy managing the twitter account is even on the same continent as Pentax headquarters.

Made even more irrelevant by the fact that I don't really care one way or the other. If something comes out, I'll buy it when my K-3 dies, if it doesn't come out until next year, I'll still probably buy it when my K-3 dies.

Before digital, I had one body, and one cheaper back up body, and they got replaced when a camera died. I still have functional Program Plus bought in 94 and an ME in working condition. I think I'm going to appreciate going back to that.

[stevebrot]

With respect, but that is the (current) Pentax world. Other manufacturers, if they are slowing down their Dslr production, it is in large part simply to make way for the transition to mirrorless, like with Nikon and Canon. They have two camera lines to maintain now, and a new lens line to develop, at least until the transition is complete (I shoot the 7DII Dslr now myself though). A fully mirrorless camera maker like Sony is far, far from slowing down on camera releases: the A7R is already on its 4th iteration, the A9II on its way, as is the A7SIII. And look at how Canon is building up its new RF lens line.
Not trying to come down on Pentax, but please keep perspective: Pentax is not investing a lot under Ricoh, and be it good or bad from Pentaxians' perspective, it will not grow Pentax at all...

Aren't you glad you invested in gear from a company that is transitioning to making your kit obsolete?


Steve

[luftfluss]

Looking at apsc releases since the K-3 II there's been basically no Pentax relevant improvements by any brand. Eye AF being mirrorless tech. Most other brands are catching up with IBIS and pixel shift with only very minor improvements to IQ. I can't see why Pentax would release a new body under these circumstances. Sure they could put out a deep buffer camera but it would be a pretty minor new model. They could be working on their own tech that makes a new model worthwhile but across the market its pretty slow.

I don't know what you shoot, but most non-Canon APS-C cameras released in the last few years have significantly better color fidelity and noise performance (in low light) at ISO 1600+ than the K-3 II. I know this because in addition to my K-3 II I have the K-70 and until recently the Fuji X-T20. At ISO 1600 the latter 2 cameras have about 3/4 stop advantage and that escalates to over a stop at ISO 6400.


Better sensor + better IBIS (K-3 II's is not as good KP/K-1 and others) + faster buffer clearing + K-1 features (lunar lander LCD, external lighting) would have been a a very worthwhile upgrade, and doable a couple years ago. But I realize that Pentax is small and perhaps lacks the manpower for too many concurrent projects.

[luftfluss]

Aren't you glad you invested in gear from a company that is transitioning to making your kit obsolete?


Steve

Daaaamn...

[Erictator]

I remember when Pentaxian's were saying "Just give us a Full Frame, we don't care if you ever make anything else ever again"... careful what you wish for. Heh.

There seems to be a fair amount of negativity on the forum(s) about the current state of things. I get why some of that is; we all want our favorite team to do well and I can sense the brand loyalty and fandom, I am not immune to it myself… but I think the worst part of all this is just not knowing for sure what is going on. No one wants to be stuck with a big investment in bodies & lenses when the music stops, and get .20 on the dollar, when they have to re-buy into another system.

IF we knew for 100% certain that Ricoh was dedicated to keep making Pentax products for FF & APSC in K mount for the foreseeable future, even if just as a showcase product while they made their real money elsewhere, I'd be fine with them happily chugging along making small body upgrades and releasing a lens once in a blue moon, since like Normhead says, they already have a pretty decent line up that just needs tweaking.

But that is me, selfishly focusing on my needs... I fully get that some want the new APSC flagship like, yesterday, or sooner. No matter how good the new camera is... let’s say it is on par with the Nikon D500, maybe just a tick slower, just a tick less accurate in AF, but smokes it in image quality, and costs nearly as much as the D500, which is about what the K-1 costs... ok, great. Now compare your current KP or K-3 Mk11 to that fantasy camera. Picture it in the Studio Scene on DPR... do you really think it will be THAT much better than what you have now? Is that most likely small incremental improvement in speed and IQ worth all the angst we see?

When I was young, I hopped all around from brand to brand and format to format seeking photographic Nirvana. I shot 4x5, Medium Format, Pentax 645, 6x7, Contax, Rollie, Nikon, and finally figured out the camera is just a tool. Once a tool is "good enough" it is time to stop obsessing over the tool and re-focus (pardon the pun) on the art of using it. Sure, I liked the larger formats for weddings and portraits, but I also liked the tiny little 35mm for its speed and portability. 36 shots on a roll baby! Woot! Sure beat loading film plates one at a time, or having my wife loading film backs for 8 to 12 shots at weddings.

Bottom line for me as a hobbyist now, is best bang for the buck with a layout that feels natural to my personal shooting style and ergonomics that feel like second nature to me. That is still Pentax for me. I refuse to be lured back into that unending search for something perfect that doesn't exist. If Pentax dries up, I'll deal with it when the time comes and... I dunno... buy a Nikon D-something or maybe even a Sony A-something with a K adapter or something so I could keep using my FA Ltd's, and until I could afford to buy into the system lenses for long glass... beats me... but I'm not there yet by a helluva long shot because Ricoh is still keeping Pentax and the K mount going, so it’s all good for now until they officially say otherwise.
Eric