[Class A]

Using FF sensor area with crop sensor and movements = epic win.

EDIT: Just realised that you weren't proposing to use an FF sensor.

Still, the cost and space needed for such a mechanism just to compensate for prior inaccuracies in setting up the camera would not be justifiable.

The current composition adjustment feature is a free by product and only needs a bit of software to be realised instead of dedicated hardware.

I guess one could argue that you get tilt support whenever you mount an FF lens. But wouldn't respective photographers use a proper tilt/shift setup instead and work with larger formats in general?

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Last edited by Class A; 10-03-2019 at 01:57 AM.

[redpit]

Yes, I think an interviewer said that was what he was told.

However, that may have been a different version to the one displayed.

Maybe, or maybe he was reffering to something that hasn't been revealed yet (maybe the blank buttons?). I don't believe they meant the sensor-AF module differences, as everyone was expecting something new and not much can be revealed from an camera with an uncovered mount... (If they would like to hide the guts they could display it with a mounted lens like they usually did with the K-1).

[alfa75ts]

I don't believe they meant the sensor-AF module differences

Neither do I, I think it would have been something more obvious like a bigger prism hump on my hypothetical other version.

[Class A]

Goldilocks did not get to specify the optimal choice of bed, she had to pick among only 3 choices (which bears had been sleeping in!).

Yes, for sure and given what is on offer, some may want to argue that one of the APS-C systems with an FF mount is the best compromise for them.
I have no problem with that view.

I was arguing in terms of "Goldilocks engineering".

FWIW, an FF system can theoretically give you (almost) the best of both worlds, as long as there are small (and hence "slow") lenses on offer that are not bigger or heavier than their APS-C equivalents. The camera will be a bit bigger than an APS-C camera that has been optimised for compactness, though.

[Class A]

I have to say I'm sad to see this thread, which had a good purpose, starting to deteriorate into a post-fest.

Why not create a dedicated raffle-thread where everyone can post things like "Yep.", "Yeppers.", "Agreed.", etc.
Nothing in the rules state that such posts would be discounted.

I realise that this thread has had its fair share of side topics and distractions, but we should try to keep the noise as low as possible, even if it means that the thread dies a natural death.

FWIW, I cannot imagine that any new visitors of pentaxforums.com, who might potentially sign up as members, would be impressed with threads that are filled with one-liners that do not attempt to make an actual contribution.

Thanks to everyone who seriously engaged in the discussions!
To everyone else, please look for other posting opportunities. Thank you in advance.

[totsmuyco]

And a detachable screen is going to be left somewhere. With my luck, I'll haul the camera out of the bag and remember the screen is on the dining room table - or worse - on a park bench.

If this camera has a detachable screen, I'm out of the race in getting one. I'm so forgetful that there were times that I forgot that it was my birthday that day and I wasn't even in my 30s then. Last July 20 - August 20 I was treated with a trip to France. In a month I lost 3 things, my reading glasses, my lens cap and for some unknown reason my K-5IIs eye cup. One thing for sure I'll be buying 6 screens before I would retire my camera.

[MarkJerling]

Mark, you would be one of the lucky ones if you can actually remember where it might be!!

You've clearly not seen me upturning the shed looking for some tool!

[MarkJerling]

I have to say I'm sad to see this thread who had a good purpose starting to deteriorate into a post-fest.

Why not create a dedicated raffle-thread where everyone can post things like "Yep.", "Yeppers.", "Agreed.", etc.
Nothing in the rules state that such posts would be discounted.

I realise that this thread has had its fair share of side topics and distractions, but we should try to keep the noise as low as possible, even if it means that the thread dies a natural death.

FWIW, I cannot imagine that any new visitors of pentaxforums.com, who might potentially sign up as members, would be impressed with threads that are filled with one-liners that do not attempt to make an actual contribution.

Thanks to everyone who seriously engaged in the discussions!
To everyone else, please look for other posting opportunities. Thank you in advance.

While there's a raffle going, there will be much pointless posting everywhere, unfortunately.

[Rondec]

Yes, for sure and given what is on offer, some may want to argue that one of the APS-C systems with an FF mount is the best compromise for them.
I have no problem with that view.

I was arguing in terms of "Goldilocks engineering".

FWIW, an FF system can theoretically give you (almost) the best of both worlds, as long as there are small (and hence "slow") lenses on offer that are not bigger or heavier than their APS-C equivalents. The camera will be a bit bigger than an APS-C camera that has been optimised for compactness, though.

Personally, I like having a mount that can share lenses between APS-C and full frame. If there is an issue when it comes to lens design, it probably has more to do with the registration distance rather than the mount diameter. But I don't think you can shorten that a whole lot while keeping an SLR design and I'm glad to keep my optical viewfinder for the time being. Fuji's X mount has an inner diameter of 44mm while the K mount has an inner diameter of 48mm -- the big difference between them that makes Fuji's cameras smaller is the difference that is achieved by losing the mirror (and maybe to a lesser extent not having IBIS in most Fuji cameras).

Overall, I think we can see in this thread why it isn't particularly wise for Pentax to reveal that they are working on a new camera too far in advance. There are stages of new camera acceptance.

(1) General elation over the fact that there is new gear coming.
(2) Rampant speculation over a couple of blurry lines in a photo.
(3) Increasingly forceful denial of the fact that the most important feature to you is probably missing from this camera.
(4) Anger that Pentax could be so short sighted as to make the mistake of leaving out said feature (accompanied by increasingly angry posts).
(5) General depression with the realization that by leaving off a flippy screen Pentax really is doomed and your whole K mount lens line up is basically worthless.

It would be nice to say that the next step is acceptance that your gear still works and you can take images and post them to the many post your image threads, but I don't see that so much.

[Kunzite]

If I'm not mistaken, I had read in a Pentax/Ricoh official interview that they could not show the camera they are working on, because there are special features that will be revealed by its shape/structure... Am I right? Does anyone else remember that? (it could be also a PF members comment, but I think I had read/heard it at an interview).

Right... but I would not assume it's something extraordinary (and definitely not something as hidden as the crazier theories about the LCD!). It might be just the joystick, or perhaps a larger space at the bottom suggesting a new AF module.
And that was then, now is now: they presented a very detailed camera.

[Serkevan]

One would think that a large mount diameter wouldn't be a problem. You just have to make your APS-C lenses wider at the mount. Registration distance has its own set of compromises though, and considering the sheer size of the "small" and "light" mirrorless lenses, seems to be pretty irrelevant in that aspect

[rod_grant]

You've clearly not seen me upturning the shed looking for some tool!

My shed might not be the worst in the world after all?

[Class A]

You just have to make your APS-C lenses wider at the mount.

Which is another way of saying "you have to make them bigger".

Of course, I'm referencing lenses that are so "slow" that they can be made so small that complying to an FF mount diameter would make them bigger.
A comparison between Fuji APS-C lenses and equivalent ones from other APS-C lines might reveal something (if Fuji exploit that potential with respectively slow lenses).

...considering the sheer size of the "small" and "light" mirrorless lenses, seems to be pretty irrelevant in that aspect

It's not that they couldn't offer those lenses, but when the whole "it's smaller and lighter" marketing was devised, it was done so without regard for the recent monster performance trend that requires monster lenses.

It's not that I don't like that trend, I much prefer my HD D-FA* 50/1.4 over my FA 50/1.4, but the trend does nothing to support the "small and light" claims for mirrorless systems.

[Serkevan]

You only have to make them bigger at the base, the rest of the barrel can be much smaller (and lighter).

Regarding mirrorless, I disagree: if "smaller and lighter" was true for shorter registration distances, then the monster lenses would, one would assume, be at least slightly less monstrous...

[clickclick]

Personally, I like having a mount that can share lenses between APS-C and full frame. If there is an issue when it comes to lens design, it probably has more to do with the registration distance rather than the mount diameter. But I don't think you can shorten that a whole lot while keeping an SLR design and I'm glad to keep my optical viewfinder for the time being. Fuji's X mount has an inner diameter of 44mm while the K mount has an inner diameter of 48mm -- the big difference between them that makes Fuji's cameras smaller is the difference that is achieved by losing the mirror (and maybe to a lesser extent not having IBIS in most Fuji cameras).

Overall, I think we can see in this thread why it isn't particularly wise for Pentax to reveal that they are working on a new camera too far in advance. There are stages of new camera acceptance.

(1) General elation over the fact that there is new gear coming.
(2) Rampant speculation over a couple of blurry lines in a photo.
(3) Increasingly forceful denial of the fact that the most important feature to you is probably missing from this camera.
(4) Anger that Pentax could be so short sighted as to make the mistake of leaving out said feature (accompanied by increasingly angry posts).
(5) General depression with the realization that by leaving off a flippy screen Pentax really is doomed and your whole K mount lens line up is basically worthless.

It would be nice to say that the next step is acceptance that your gear still works and you can take images and post them to the many post your image threads, but I don't see that so much.

Good start, but you have 7 steps to go....