New K-series DSLR under development to be exhibited

Mistral75 · 10-16-2019, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by phoebus

So, getting back to rumours about the new K series camera...

Is there anything to prove or disprove that it may have this sensor: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX571BQR_Flyer.pdf

(...)

No, nothing to prove or disprove it. This is just a rumour and a guesstimate.

reh321 · 10-16-2019, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by phoebus

So, getting back to rumours about the new K series camera...

Is there anything to prove or disprove that it may have this sensor: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX571BQR_Flyer.pdf

That flyer mentions ADC with up to 16 bit resolution. Along with this text:

The IMX571BQR is a diagonal 28.3 mm (Type 1.8) CMOS active pixel type image sensor with a square pixel array
and 26.11 M effective pixels. This sensor incorporates maximum 36 dB PGA circuit and 16-bit AID converter. 16-bit
digital output makes it possible to readout the signals of 26.11 M effective pixels at high-speed of 6.84 frame/s in still
picture mode. In addition, it realizes 12-bit digital output for high-speed 4K moving picture by window readout mode.

I'm not sure how much difference can be seen between 14 and 16 bit sampling, but I reckon the difference between 12 and 14 is noticeable when digging for shadow detail: hopefully Pentax will give us the full 16 bits, at least on slower frame rates. I suspect a top frame rate under 7fps will not please everyone, so maybe 14 bit at a faster FPS is possible.

I'm sure the 4K video option will also please some, if Pentax support it...

Exterior view tells us nothing about important stuff, such as even type of sensor, so we just have to guess about that part for now. At least Ricoh seems to be telling us that we are finally nearing release of this camera.

**ffking** · 10-16-2019, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by phoebus

suspect a top frame rate under 7fps will not please everyone, so maybe 14 bit at a faster FPS is possible.

I think 7fps would be seen as far too slow, not just as that's less than the 60Mp A7RiV can do, but it;s slower than the K-3 - there would have to be another solution, or something dramatically musr have about the camera to compensate.

reh321 · 10-16-2019, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by ffking

I think 7fps would be seen as far too slow, not just as that's less than the 60Mp A7RiV can do, but it;s slower than the K-3 - there would have to be another solution, or something dramatically musr have about the camera to compensate.

there is certainly no reason to expect burst rate to be no faster than KP

**sbh** · 10-16-2019, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by phoebus

So, getting back to rumours about the new K series camera...

Is there anything to prove or disprove that it may have this sensor: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX571BQR_Flyer.pdf

That flyer mentions ADC with up to 16 bit resolution. Along with this text:

The IMX571BQR is a diagonal 28.3 mm (Type 1.8) CMOS active pixel type image sensor with a square pixel array
and 26.11 M effective pixels. This sensor incorporates maximum 36 dB PGA circuit and 16-bit AID converter. 16-bit
digital output makes it possible to readout the signals of 26.11 M effective pixels at high-speed of 6.84 frame/s in still
picture mode. In addition, it realizes 12-bit digital output for high-speed 4K moving picture by window readout mode.

I'm not sure how much difference can be seen between 14 and 16 bit sampling, but I reckon the difference between 12 and 14 is noticeable when digging for shadow detail: hopefully Pentax will give us the full 16 bits, at least on slower frame rates. I suspect a top frame rate under 7fps will not please everyone, so maybe 14 bit at a faster FPS is possible.

I'm sure the 4K video option will also please some, if Pentax support it...

OK, you can get back to your colonoscopy now.

16 bit would be nice in some cases and I would love to have that option but I don't think it will happen. Not even the 645 does it. Afaik only Hassy and Phase do 16 bit.

**mlt** · 10-16-2019, 12:23 PM - **1 Like**

I agree, would probably be too much to expect. However, 16 bit raw in an APSC dslr would be a game changer.

D FA 24 F2 · 10-16-2019, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

No, nothing to prove or disprove it. This is just a rumour and a guesstimate.

Pentax really buy imx 571 and 455 This is not a secret in the semiconductor industry, it is known around May.
imx571 datasheet
if pentax buy slvs-ec ， using readmode 0-a 16bit only 6.86fps 0-b14bit 16fps this is limited by chip，not shutter
If k-new have 16bit mode it should be limited at about 7fps
xt-3 not pay for slve-ec so they cant use 16bit and full adc mode.

Attached Images

**TwoUptons** · 10-16-2019, 12:31 PM

Does a 7fps limit imply no 4K video?

I can’t read the spec sheet on my phone, it’s a blurry mess.

I know video isn’t high on Pentax’ traditional priority list, but it seems to me some of the same characteristics that make for good high speed shooting also make for decent video capabilities...

-Eric

**mlt** · 10-16-2019, 12:32 PM

Plus that would give an APSC raw file size of nearly 51mb (50976.5625) if my calculations are correct - time for more memory and storage space in the computer

D FA 24 F2 · 10-16-2019, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by TwoUptons

Does a 7fps limit imply no 4K video?

I can’t read the spec sheet on my phone, it’s a blurry mess.

I know video isn’t high on Pentax’ traditional priority list, but it seems to me some of the same characteristics that make for good high speed shooting also make for decent video capabilities...

-Eric

no
imx571 have 10bit mode enough support full pixels 43fps output.Pentax soc limite video performance

phoebus · 10-16-2019, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by mlt

Plus that would give an APSC raw file size of nearly 51mb (50976.5625) if my calculations are correct - time for more memory and storage space in the computer

Uncompressed = 26000000 x (16 + 16 +16)/8 = 156,000,000 bytes

~ 152MB

However, the DNG and PEF formats have lossless compression.

In comparison, for the K-1:

36000000 x (14 + 14 + 14)/8 = 189,000,000 bytes ~ 185MB

Ignore all above, been a long day!! Divide by three, unless talking TIFF...

My K-1 DNGs are about 45MB, depending on the level of detail in the image. (Mine range from 22MB to 72MB - the highest is a landscape shot with the DFA*50)

reh321 · 10-16-2019, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by D FA 24 F2

Pentax really buy imx 571 and 455 This is not a secret in the semiconductor industry, it is known around May.
imx571 datasheet
if pentax buy slvs-ec ， using readmode 0-a 16bit only 6.86fps 0-b14bit 16fps this is limited by chip，not shutter
If k-new have 16bit mode it should be limited at about 7fps
xt-3 not pay for slve-ec so they cant use 16bit and full adc mode.

What does KP use?

Do you view that as a hint of what might be used in the K-3ii replacement?

**alfa75ts** · 10-16-2019, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by D FA 24 F2

If k-new have 16bit mode it should be limited at about 7fps

I think I'd be very happy at even 3fps, hell I'd be happy at 1 second per frame.

house · 10-16-2019, 02:25 PM

I understood 16 bit to be largely meaningless even for MF cameras? For a crop it seems even more overkill?

Mistral75 · 10-16-2019, 02:45 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mlt

I agree, would probably be too much to expect. However, 16 bit raw in an APSC dslr would be a game changer.

How so? Even with 14-bit RAW, the two LSBs mostly record noise.

10-16-2019, 11:41 AM	#2822
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by phoebus So, getting back to rumours about the new K series camera... Is there anything to prove or disprove that it may have this sensor: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX571BQR_Flyer.pdf That flyer mentions ADC with up to 16 bit resolution. Along with this text: The IMX571BQR is a diagonal 28.3 mm (Type 1.8) CMOS active pixel type image sensor with a square pixel array and 26.11 M effective pixels. This sensor incorporates maximum 36 dB PGA circuit and 16-bit AID converter. 16-bit digital output makes it possible to readout the signals of 26.11 M effective pixels at high-speed of 6.84 frame/s in still picture mode. In addition, it realizes 12-bit digital output for high-speed 4K moving picture by window readout mode. I'm not sure how much difference can be seen between 14 and 16 bit sampling, but I reckon the difference between 12 and 14 is noticeable when digging for shadow detail: hopefully Pentax will give us the full 16 bits, at least on slower frame rates. I suspect a top frame rate under 7fps will not please everyone, so maybe 14 bit at a faster FPS is possible. I'm sure the 4K video option will also please some, if Pentax support it... Exterior view tells us nothing about important stuff, such as even type of sensor, so we just have to guess about that part for now. At least Ricoh seems to be telling us that we are finally nearing release of this camera.

10-16-2019, 12:07 PM	#2825
sbh Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Black Forest, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 849	Originally posted by phoebus So, getting back to rumours about the new K series camera... Is there anything to prove or disprove that it may have this sensor: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX571BQR_Flyer.pdf That flyer mentions ADC with up to 16 bit resolution. Along with this text: The IMX571BQR is a diagonal 28.3 mm (Type 1.8) CMOS active pixel type image sensor with a square pixel array and 26.11 M effective pixels. This sensor incorporates maximum 36 dB PGA circuit and 16-bit AID converter. 16-bit digital output makes it possible to readout the signals of 26.11 M effective pixels at high-speed of 6.84 frame/s in still picture mode. In addition, it realizes 12-bit digital output for high-speed 4K moving picture by window readout mode. I'm not sure how much difference can be seen between 14 and 16 bit sampling, but I reckon the difference between 12 and 14 is noticeable when digging for shadow detail: hopefully Pentax will give us the full 16 bits, at least on slower frame rates. I suspect a top frame rate under 7fps will not please everyone, so maybe 14 bit at a faster FPS is possible. I'm sure the 4K video option will also please some, if Pentax support it... OK, you can get back to your colonoscopy now. 16 bit would be nice in some cases and I would love to have that option but I don't think it will happen. Not even the 645 does it. Afaik only Hassy and Phase do 16 bit.

10-16-2019, 01:13 PM	#2831
phoebus Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Buckinghamshire (UK) / Morbihan (FR) Photos: Gallery Posts: 470	Originally posted by mlt Plus that would give an APSC raw file size of nearly 51mb (50976.5625) if my calculations are correct - time for more memory and storage space in the computer Uncompressed = 26000000 x (16 + 16 +16)/8 = 156,000,000 bytes ~ 152MB However, the DNG and PEF formats have lossless compression. In comparison, for the K-1: 36000000 x (14 + 14 + 14)/8 = 189,000,000 bytes ~ 185MB Ignore all above, been a long day!! Divide by three, unless talking TIFF... My K-1 DNGs are about 45MB, depending on the level of detail in the image. (Mine range from 22MB to 72MB - the highest is a landscape shot with the DFA50) Last edited by phoebus; 10-16-2019 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Ineptitude in maths...*

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10-16-2019, 11:34 AM	#2821
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by phoebus So, getting back to rumours about the new K series camera... Is there anything to prove or disprove that it may have this sensor: https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products/common/pdf/IMX571BQR_Flyer.pdf (...) No, nothing to prove or disprove it. This is just a rumour and a guesstimate.

10-16-2019, 11:44 AM	#2823
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by phoebus suspect a top frame rate under 7fps will not please everyone, so maybe 14 bit at a faster FPS is possible. I think 7fps would be seen as far too slow, not just as that's less than the 60Mp A7RiV can do, but it;s slower than the K-3 - there would have to be another solution, or something dramatically musr have about the camera to compensate.

10-16-2019, 11:59 AM	#2824
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by ffking I think 7fps would be seen as far too slow, not just as that's less than the 60Mp A7RiV can do, but it;s slower than the K-3 - there would have to be another solution, or something dramatically musr have about the camera to compensate. there is certainly no reason to expect burst rate to be no faster than KP

10-16-2019, 12:23 PM - 1 Like	#2826
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	I agree, would probably be too much to expect. However, 16 bit raw in an APSC dslr would be a game changer.

10-16-2019, 12:26 PM	#2827
D FA 24 F2 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 28	Originally posted by Mistral75 No, nothing to prove or disprove it. This is just a rumour and a guesstimate. Pentax really buy imx 571 and 455 This is not a secret in the semiconductor industry, it is known around May. imx571 datasheet if pentax buy slvs-ec ， using readmode 0-a 16bit only 6.86fps 0-b14bit 16fps this is limited by chip，not shutter If k-new have 16bit mode it should be limited at about 7fps xt-3 not pay for slve-ec so they cant use 16bit and full adc mode. Attached Images

10-16-2019, 12:31 PM	#2828
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,213	Does a 7fps limit imply no 4K video? I can’t read the spec sheet on my phone, it’s a blurry mess. I know video isn’t high on Pentax’ traditional priority list, but it seems to me some of the same characteristics that make for good high speed shooting also make for decent video capabilities... -Eric

10-16-2019, 12:32 PM	#2829
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	Plus that would give an APSC raw file size of nearly 51mb (50976.5625) if my calculations are correct - time for more memory and storage space in the computer

10-16-2019, 12:40 PM	#2830
D FA 24 F2 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 28	Originally posted by TwoUptons Does a 7fps limit imply no 4K video? I can’t read the spec sheet on my phone, it’s a blurry mess. I know video isn’t high on Pentax’ traditional priority list, but it seems to me some of the same characteristics that make for good high speed shooting also make for decent video capabilities... -Eric no imx571 have 10bit mode enough support full pixels 43fps output.Pentax soc limite video performance

10-16-2019, 01:47 PM	#2832
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by D FA 24 F2 Pentax really buy imx 571 and 455 This is not a secret in the semiconductor industry, it is known around May. imx571 datasheet if pentax buy slvs-ec ， using readmode 0-a 16bit only 6.86fps 0-b14bit 16fps this is limited by chip，not shutter If k-new have 16bit mode it should be limited at about 7fps xt-3 not pay for slve-ec so they cant use 16bit and full adc mode. What does KP use? Do you view that as a hint of what might be used in the K-3ii replacement?

10-16-2019, 02:10 PM	#2833
alfa75ts Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by D FA 24 F2 If k-new have 16bit mode it should be limited at about 7fps I think I'd be very happy at even 3fps, hell I'd be happy at 1 second per frame.

10-16-2019, 02:25 PM	#2834
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	I understood 16 bit to be largely meaningless even for MF cameras? For a crop it seems even more overkill?

10-16-2019, 02:45 PM - 1 Like	#2835
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by mlt I agree, would probably be too much to expect. However, 16 bit raw in an APSC dslr would be a game changer. How so? Even with 14-bit RAW, the two LSBs mostly record noise.