[Sandy Hancock]

Still think that stills, live view, video wheel looks like an afterthought addon.

Not if they are designing this for (among other things) outdoor use in very cold weather. That big knob will be much easier to operate with gloves on.

[BROO]

The two photos at the beginning of this thread appear to be large versions of the image above and the same as the crops posted by Tanaka-san on his Twitter account. I gave them both careful evaluation and feel they are of the same camera with identical prism housing details. (Hint: the two views were taken from different angles and distances.)

Yeah. Okay then. I guess I was mistaken.

Anyhow I am sure this is going to keep a lot of Pentaxians happy. The camera looks like what many K3 users have been waiting for!
And I am happy for them too.

[Class A]

Can't make any promise on this one.

Where is the hysterically crying smilie when you need it?

See below why I care.

the supposed loss of detail from the Accelerator is essentially academic;

I'm rather certain the loss in reputation and sales inflicted on the K-1 II by DPReview's take on the matter was all but "academic".

One can debate all day whether DPReview was justified in making a huge deal out of the noise reduction found in raw files but I don't see how anyone could deny that having DPReview slag the K-1 II in the review, deprive it of any recommendation (not even a "bronze" badge), and nominate it as the second worst camera of 2018 (and yes, the noise reduction played a role in that) was damaging to K-1 II sales.

It is just unnecessary to disadvantage your product like that.

We know that DPReview will still whine about the "default JPEG settings" (what a joke), etc. but there is no need to hand them the ammunition on a silver plate.

there is a mathematically assertable potential loss of detail but any actual loss of detail is essentially not discernible.

One can see the loss of detail with one's own eyes. On some images it is hard to see on some images it is rather obvious.

Ricoh is not in possession of any witchcraft that reduces noise without affecting detail. One cannot only measure the attenuation of high spatial frequency at ISO 640 and beyond, it is also visible.

It is another matter how much post-sharpening, etc. can create images that the vast majority of people would prefer over untreated pure raw files (apples to oranges comparison, of course) and I'm not saying the "accelerator" is all evil. All I'm saying is give people who need the original data (e.g., astrophotographers who create deep image stacks) or people who prefer to rely on out-of-camera processing (that will only get better in the future) the chance to access the original data and avoid the denigration of very influential websites at the same time.

[stevebrot]

Yeah. Okay then. I guess I was mistaken.

Anyhow I am sure this is going to keep a lot of Pentaxians happy. The camera looks like what many K3 users have been waiting for!
And I am happy for them too.

We'll see. I am pretty sure that the camera has a special viewfinder treatment, but not able to predict just what that might be. We will just have to wait and see.


Steve

[Paul the Sunman]

In case anyone didn't notice, this thread has now hit 1000 postings ... all within 5 days!

It shows the pent-up frustration of Pentaxians about the lack of an APS-C flagship over recent times.

[richandfleur]

Not if they are designing this for (among other things) outdoor use in very cold weather. That big knob will be much easier to operate with gloves on.

Not saying it’s not useful, just it looks like an afterthought being positioned there.

It would be bold (some people are very passionate about such things) but do we really need a top calculator LCD screen anymore?

[Class A]

Still think that stills, live view, video wheel looks like an afterthought addon.

It definitely seems like a waste of a control element that could be put to better use.

It is not just a matter of adding further options to the dial so either, as Sandy Hancock said, the control is designed to support operation while wearing gloves, or the production camera will reveal a different use of the dial.

Actually, putting the three camera shooting modes on the top center wheel is brilliant.

Could this not also have been achieved using a secondary ring below the selection dial (like on the KP or K-1 (II))?
Wouldn't such a ring be usable with gloves as well?

Push S,fn, then use the third top dial to set its own functions as you scroll through them on the back or, probably, the top LCD.

That would work but is not quite as good as having all options available on a dial because even though access is sequential for both controls, the dial immediately tells you how far away from the target you are and also gives you feedback about the setting even when the camera is turned off.

Of course more options could be covered with a knob+soft-dial approach as opposed to the limited space on a dial. However, there is clearly a limit to the number of options one can support this way as well because access times should be reasonable.

Note that, ideally, the top LCD would have to support the S.fn options approach. This wouldn't be feasible with a standard segment LCD. Just providing feedback on the back LCD wouldn't be a good idea because it should be possible to have the latter turned off, except when reviewing images or deliberately using menus.

[BigMackCam]

Not saying it’s not useful, just it looks like an afterthought being positioned there.

It would be bold (some people are very passionate about such things) but do we really need a top calculator LCD screen anymore?

I certainly prefer it. Of the various cameras I use, only my A7 MkII doesn't have one, and I miss it. I can get away without having it, but I'd rather not.

Of course, if it turns out the screen is fixed, then the top LCD panel is, IMHO, even more important...

[Fogel70]

Not saying it’s not useful, just it looks like an afterthought being positioned there.

It would be bold (some people are very passionate about such things) but do we really need a top calculator LCD screen anymore?

With a fixed rear LCD, it is nice to have the top LCD.
And it could also be extra useful if the special functions and settings are displayed on the top LCD.

[wed7]

Of course, if it turns out the screen is fixed, then the top LCD panel is, IMHO, even more important...

I am afraid, the addition of the top screen will only justify the fixed rear screen

But.. but.. but..
A camera with top screen and a movable rear screen will make more Pentaxians happy.

[Fogel70]

That would work but is not quite as good as having all options available on a dial because even though access is sequential for both controls, the dial immediately tells you how far away from the target you are and also gives you feedback about the setting even when the camera is turned off.

Of course more options could be covered with a knob+soft-dial approach as opposed to the limited space on a dial. However, there is clearly a limit to the number of options one can support this way as well because access times should be reasonable.

On the other hand the opions could be better optimized for each mode with soft dial approach. FI HDR and bracketing options on K1 seems to be wasted space on the dial in video mode.

So if the option can be customized for each mode it could lead to fewer option in each mode instead of a dial that need to cover all three modes.

[RobA_Oz]

Not saying it’s not useful, just it looks like an afterthought being positioned there.

It would be bold (some people are very passionate about such things) but do we really need a top calculator LCD screen anymore?

There was a bit of a whinge when the KP was released without one. Having a small one on my K-1, I have to say that I don’t miss the bigger one on previous bodies. Don’t know if I’d miss it if it wasn’t there, though.

On the tall knob, I can’t imagine they’d only have three options on it – surely the final body will have more. There’s that unlabelled button on the rear, I know, but still...

[Fogel70]

There was a bit of a whinge when the KP was released without one. Having a small one on my K-1, I have to say that I don’t miss the bigger one on previous bodies. Don’t know if I’d miss it if it wasn’t there, though.

On the tall knob, I can’t imagine they’d only have three options on it – surely the final body will have more. There’s that unlabelled button on the rear, I know, but still...

If the knob is for switching between OVF/LV/Video it would not make much sense to put other option on it too (unless it will have other capturing modes).

[monochrome]

They’ll do it to the fixed LCD. How many units could DPR have cost anyway? They're meaningless trolls.

Where is the hysterically crying smilie when you need it?

See below why I care.


I'm rather certain the loss in reputation and sales inflicted on the K-1 II by DPReview's take on the matter was all but "academic".

One can debate all day whether DPReview was justified in making a huge deal out of the noise reduction found in raw files but I don't see how anyone could deny that having DPReview slag the K-1 II in the review, deprive it of any recommendation (not even a "bronze" badge), and nominate it as the second worst camera of 2018 (and yes, the noise reduction played a role in that) was damaging to K-1 II sales.

It is just unnecessary to disadvantage your product like that.

We know that DPReview will still whine about the "default JPEG settings" (what a joke), etc. but there is no need to hand them the ammunition on a silver plate.



One can see the loss of detail with one's own eyes. On some images it is hard to see on some images it is rather obvious.

Ricoh is not in possession of any witchcraft that reduces noise without affecting detail. One cannot only measure the attenuation of high spatial frequency at ISO 640 and beyond, it is also visible.

It is another matter how much post-sharpening, etc. can create images that the vast majority of people would prefer over untreated pure raw files (apples to oranges comparison, of course) and I'm not saying the "accelerator" is all evil. All I'm saying is give people who need the original data (e.g., astrophotographers who create deep image stacks) or people who prefer to rely on out-of-camera processing (that will only get better in the future) the chance to access the original data and avoid the denigration of very influential websites at the same time.

[Kunzite]

They will do it for any excuse they can find.

---------- Post added 25-09-19 at 09:47 AM ----------

One can see the loss of detail with one's own eyes.

One can imagine seeing loss of detail with one's eyes ;-)
The debate is largely philosophical - "I want my RAWs pure!". Well, they're not anyway. So I'll take the better images over the slightly "purer" ones.

I would say no to Sony's star eater, though.