[stevebrot]

No, there is no need for knowledge about the pre-processed state (in the sense you are implying).

It may not be obvious, but I am basically agreeing with you.


Steve

[reh321]

I've noticed that, as usual, discussion of the 'accelerator' has focused on 'noise', but Photos-to-Photos data shows that Dynamic Range also benefits, and from various sources {including my own work} I am quite convinced that Color Fidelity also benefits.

[microlight]

Good grief, this thread moves quickly!

@Class A: apologies for being purposely a little provocative with the JPG thing (devil’s advocate and all that), but the point is that a lossy file wouldn’t contain all of the sensor’s data, regardless of whether it went through an AU or not. I think we’re actually talking about different effects: the AU reducing noise but then being saved losslessly, compared with the Sony lossy reduced-bit files. Different processes but maybe similar effects? I don’t know, I don’t have a K-1II or a Sony camera.

I think that part of the confusion comes with the concepts of compressed vs. uncompressed since these can both be lossless, but with different file sizes (as with audio). Yes, of course bit depth is greater than 8-bit JPG at 11 bits, but by the same token it’s less than the original 14. It’s the same situation actually as with the AU - ‘are you happy that the camera applies noise reduction before saving without your say-so’, compared with ‘are you happy that the camera throws data away according to a pre-set Sony algorithm’. The output Sony file is not a raw in the same way that the 14-bit file would be. If most K-1II users are completely happy with the output, then that’s great, and it’s not dissimilar to Sony’s 1990s MiniDisc customers being completely happy with the sound.

This is not to say of course that people aren’t not completely happy with their Sony files or MiniDisc sound (is that a triple-negative? D’oh!), and you don’t start to see (or hear) the effects until you start getting analytical, which is what DPR did.

[MMVIII]

Another advantage of a button-based manipulation style as opposed to a selector with discrete physical states is that the respective choice (e.g., the metering mode) can become part of a stored user style or may change when modes are changed to re-assume the value the option had when the camera was last in that mode.


Yeah, I don't see an e-paper display happening either, but I agree that a matrix display would be nice so that choices made (say which CH/CL option was chosen) can be fed back via the top LCD rather than requiring the user to operate blindly or having to turn on the back LCD for that purpose only.

Right. But if they would use a Bistable Cholesteric Liquid Crystal Display with an extremely wide temperature working range MJKoski could at lest deep freeze the camera and still read his settings

[Class A]

But if they would use a Bistable Cholesteric Liquid Crystal Display with an extremely wide temperature working range MJKoski could at lest deep freeze the camera and still read his settings

Don't underestimate MJKoski; he'd find a way to show that the camera isn't fit for "regular use".

[Class A]

...apologies for being purposely a little provocative with the JPG thing

Not a problem.

I wouldn't want a camera that only gave me a lossy format but I concede that in practice neither Sony's nor Ricoh's approaches would prove to be problematic in the vast majority of cases.

...you don’t start to see (or hear) the effects until you start getting analytical, which is what DPR did.

I largely agree and it would be OK if DPReview did it to every brand consistently.

Then there'd be an understanding that they are just pulling everything apart down to the wire and a report of a flaw would be more regarded as a testament to their thoroughness rather than a weakness of the product. However, when they are very lenient with one product and then super critical with another, the perception is that the former is great while the latter is to be avoided.

[bxf]

I am picky about NR on my images and apply it as sparingly as possible. If I wanted the camera to do it for me, I would shoot JPEG.
Steve

But does this approach not ignore or contradict the Pentax claim that the AU achieves something that cannot be equaled in PP (whatever that is)?

[Wasp]

Spend a day behind that viewfinder and get back to me after.

No problems with my Samsung NX1 after 18 months, although I never shoot all day with it. I use the EVF for only about a quarter of the time.

BTW, in my valley an EOS RP is about the same money as a KP.

[BigMackCam]

in my valley an EOS RP is about the same money as a KP.

That's obviously a very regional thing. Here in the UK, the non-discounted price of the KP is GBP £999, but no-one pays that so far as I'm aware - folks wait until one of many discounts. Since June, there have been many times where it could be bought for GBP £699. Conversely, the Canon EOS RP (with EF adapter, which is pretty much essential right now) is GBP £1,400 but has been available at £1,260 on occasion...

[abhaskare]

Some obeservations bylooking at pics..

- U1, U2 stops on the dial,it is a pain to go through the menu on K5ii
- The top LCS is retained
- Not sure about the flash
- Looks like screen is fixed,not tilted

[alfa75ts]

Same provisos as to scale, much easier on a cutaway.

This version of a hybrid viewfinder doesn't seem to fit.

[richandfleur]

I think it's understandable that serious astrophotographers wouldn't consider Pentax the ideal brand for them, and also understandable that Pentax probably isn't aiming at that market to begin with.

I was pretty disappointed when this situation arose, because a full frame rugged weather sealed camera, with an astrotracer capability built in, seems the absolute perfect match for astro work. I was surprised it wasn't suddenly the go to device for astro work. Seemed a missed opportunity not to target that crowd. Doesn't it have a red light mode too, and those little leds to help locate the lens mount in the dark etc?

[microlight]

Maybe an accelerator post-marketing ‘whoops’ discovery? I can’t imagine that Ricoh were trying to sabotage their own flagship, especially having put the Astrotracer mechanism in there.

[Kobie]

I was pretty disappointed when this situation arose, because a full frame rugged weather sealed camera, with an astrotracer capability built in, seems the absolute perfect match for astro work. I was surprised it wasn't suddenly the go to device for astro work. Seemed a missed opportunity not to target that crowd. Doesn't it have a red light mode too, and those little leds to help locate the lens mount in the dark etc?

Yup, it has all that and a bag of chips. It doesn't matter how incredible, feature packed, rugged, and indestructible your product is... If you don't advertise or market it, nobody is going to pay attention.

[richandfleur]

The choices made by the "accelerator" unit are not always the best for everyone.

I was really surprised to see this chip involved in RAW files at all. I thought the whole point of RAW was to get a sensor dump, from which you could develop as you wished.
Fully get this in JPG mode, and especially where the likes of Fuji are doing really well incorporating their film emulation modes in camera.


Side note, but Pentax has a real claim to a retro inspired body, given their history of the K1000 and ME etc.
I suspect the KP was intended to mimic this, but right now Olympus has done a better job of this than Pentax.

I hope nobody thinks that I'm defending these jokers.

The Pentax faithful, the Tifosi if you will, has a lot of very staunch members.
At times it feels like a political party site, where you're either with us or against us, black and white styles and no area for grey.

Try mentioning an interest in improving Video capabilities beyond the 2012 era offering on the modern K-1 (?!) , or pointing out that mirrorless cameras have some real benefits (like eye AF, powerful object AF tracking, and digital zoom/focus peaking that make an excellent match when manual focusing older lenses, and are compatible with many legacy mounts from multiple different companies etc).

I agree it's not a sensible approach to score cameras based on tick-box of features, mostly as all users have different personal requirements.
However, DPReview and other sites do have their place, as that's where new users will head to help get purchasing advice, and as a manufacturer you'd be silly not to acknowledge this.

This isn't just a camera story though, and the likes of TripAdvisor and even Instagram play huge roles in where people travel, dine and other such purchasing decisions.
It's a brave or stupid business of any sort today, to ignore the power of social media and online reviews.

Really depends if your focus is to keep producing for the existing customer base, or develop and market to attract and capture new customers to your products.
One of these is much more sustainable long term than the other.